Making the game RPG?

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**Martymunster**

My friends and I just started collecting new Warhammer 40k, and we are currentky enjoying the painting process whilst dicsussing possible games to play and tactics and whatnot. The idea to make our own independant characters has come up to.
One of my friends wants to play a few games and eventually (when a certain unit has gained the right amount of Kill Points) give them special abilities that other main characters have. For example; if his wolf lord get enough kill points or turns the tide of battle enough times he should be able to give him the special rule Living Legend (Logan Grimnar) and just that rule. He agrees that he cant simply give it to him for free but we would decide how much it is worth and then add the cost to that unit, so the wolf lord would now cost something like 180 points before wargear. I know there is a rule for using special characters from another codex but giving them different names, this would just be a normal character but with a special costing with an agreed apon value.

Whilst this is a cool idea and would add an almost RPG element to the game, I can't help but feel we are going to have trouble deciding how many points the special ability in question should cost and whether or not it would make the unit broken. Im kind of split on the subject so i wanted to know what you guys think of this plan.

Keep in mind we obviously wont expect these rules to be followed in real tourniments.

**insaniak**

You're looking for the Proposed Rules section. Moving now...

**Martymunster**

Oh i see whats happening now. Sorry lol

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martymunster wrote:Oh i see whats happening now. Sorry lol

I didnt know what you meant by sections and moving. Noob I am

**yamgrenade**

Well, the way my friends do it is we just see how it turns out. For example, on a zombie scenario we were playing one time (I couldn't make it and wasn't playing,) but my friends told me about it- Endless hordes using every model they could spare against one tac. squad of doomed marines. Mid-way through the game, a drop pod was discovered; If the marines could reconfigure the thrusters, they could rocket to orbit and escape.

Forced to leave the only fortified position, the space marines knew that they faced nearly certain doom. Through sacrifice, will, and luck, one marine escaped. He now has green armor as well as a black Z on his armor, and whenever we play zombies, he always wounds on a 2+ against them.

Anyway, just develop the character with the games you play. It makes things more fair to your friends, especially if you add a small points-fee, and gives it a RPG feel.

**imark789**

It will be pretty hard to make the game completely balanced with an RPG element...I mean, think about it, once this guy does it, all of you are going to want your own special rules for veteran units (which is reasonable). But that means playtesting for god knows how many hours to determine a fair price for each new special rule, along with a degree of arguing/debating whats a fair price, whether or not it breaks the game, etc, depending on how well you get along...if you're shooting for a game that is as balanced as possible, don't use the RPG element. If you decide to play with the RPG element, I would forgo the playtesting, agree on a points value, and play with full knowledge that maybe the points value isn't as fair as you thought it would be. You can still have a fun time with your friends if you're not playing super competitive and are just trying to have a good time.

Sorry for the winded reply haha

**Martymunster**

imark789 wrote:It will be pretty hard to make the game completely balanced with an RPG element...I mean, think about it, once this guy does it, all of you are going to want your own special rules for veteran units (which is reasonable). But that means playtesting for god knows how many hours to determine a fair price for each new special rule, along with a degree of arguing/debating whats a fair price, whether or not it breaks the game, etc, depending on how well you get along...if you're shooting for a game that is as balanced as possible, don't use the RPG element. If you decide to play with the RPG element, I would forgo the playtesting, agree on a points value, and play with full knowledge that maybe the points value isn't as fair as you thought it would be. You can still have a fun time with your friends if you're not playing super competitive and are just trying to have a good time.

Sorry for the winded reply haha

That is kinda what i was thinking too. Also long winded is kinda what i was after with a question like this.

**master of ordinance**

Nice idea
wasnt there something a bit like this in the old 3rdED BBB

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Achievement System: This is on a unit by unit basis. Each time a squad completes one of these goals, it gains the said reward. However, if a unit is entirely wiped out, it loses all Achievements until it can gain it again. Keep track of this between games, else you're bound to lose track. Note that a vehicle that is Wrecked retains the achievement, but a vehicle that Explodes doesn't.

Note: Where the system asks for killing a certain number of Models, Vehicles, Independent Characters, and Monstrous Creatures count as 3 Kills. Flyers and Super-Heavies count as 5.

Trial By Experience: Kill 100 models from a single codex's unit type. (Example: Killing Space Marine Tactical Squads and Scout Squads count together, but not Assault Squads. You may only count one unit type at a time.)
Reward: Preferred Enemy(Unit Type Killed): Example: Guard Troops, Ork Fast Attack

Ka-Boom!: Kill 20 Tanks
Reward: Tank Hunters

Angels of Death: Kill 30 Enemy Models: You may only count on the turn this unit Deep Striked.
Reward: Heroic Intervention(Unit may choose to forgo shooting on a Deep Strike Turn in favor of Assaulting; declare this before the scatter dice are rolled)
Alternate Reward: Unit only scatters 1d6 for Deep Strike

Witch Hunter: Kill 10 Enemy Psykers
Reward: Preferred Enemy(All Psykers)

Sergeant Awesome: The Squad Leader(Sergeant, Shas'ui, whatever) Must accumulate 15 Personal Kills
Reward: If the squad fails a Leadership Test, roll a d6: On a 4+, The squad may Re-Roll the leadership test using the Sergeant's Leadership

I Am Heavy Weapons Guy: In a squad that doesn't consist entirely of Heavy Weapon users, a model with a Heavy Weapon must accumulate 15 kills.
Reward: For one turn per game, the Heavy Weapon may be counted as either an Assault Weapon, or as Twin Linked. Declare which you will use before the Model begins shooting.

Drive Me Closer, I Want To Hit Them With My Sword(Vehicle Only): Vehicle must Ram or Tank Shock(successfully or not) 5 times.
Reward: Any vehicle this unit Rams also takes a Strength 9 hit on whatever facing is being rammed. Any unit the vehicle Tank Shocks immediately takes d3 wounds with all saves except cover saves allowed.

Vigilant Mind(Psykers Only): The Psyker must use its Psychic Powers to kill the last model in a squad or destroy a vehicle three times.
Reward: Before using a Psychic Power, the Psyker rolls a d6. On a 5+, the Psyker may use an extra Psychic Power this turn, but only one they know.

Officer And A Gentleman: The Squad Leader must have a Mustache sculpted or painted on. If his helmet covers it, too bad.
Reward: As long as the squad leader is alive, the squad always passes tests to Rally.

**Phototoxin**

You'd be better refluffing existing special characters... so for example my 4th co BA captain is 'tycho' rules wise but has a wrist mounted combi-melta and a kickass sword (as opposed to the 'dead mans hand' He's got the gear but has his own fluff.
Commanding on the ground he's able to inspire and direct (thus tychos LD10 bonus for everyone)

When he leads the assault and strike team he dons his deathmask from when he served in the sanguinary guard, takes up a master crafted power axe but relinquishes the more weighty bolter for a wrist mounted infernus pistol. He's got so many years of experience that he doesn't scatter.
IE I use dante's rules.

The only problem is if there isn't any sort of progress steps points and rules wise. But if you're happy to re-fluff then it's awesome!

**Martymunster**

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Achievement System: This is on a unit by unit basis. Each time a squad completes one of these goals, it gains the said reward. However, if a unit is entirely wiped out, it loses all Achievements until it can gain it again. Keep track of this between games, else you're bound to lose track. Note that a vehicle that is Wrecked retains the achievement, but a vehicle that Explodes doesn't.

Note: Where the system asks for killing a certain number of Models, Vehicles, Independent Characters, and Monstrous Creatures count as 3 Kills. Flyers and Super-Heavies count as 5.

Trial By Experience: Kill 100 models from a single codex's unit type. (Example: Killing Space Marine Tactical Squads and Scout Squads count together, but not Assault Squads. You may only count one unit type at a time.)
Reward: Preferred Enemy(Unit Type Killed): Example: Guard Infantry, Ork Fast Attack

Ka-Boom!: Kill 20 Tanks
Reward: Tank Hunters

Angels of Death: Kill 30 Enemy Models: You may only count on the turn this unit Deep Striked.
Reward: Heroic Intervention(Unit may choose to forgo shooting on a Deep Strike Turn in favor of Assaulting; declare this before the scatter dice are rolled)
Alternate Reward: Unit only scatters 1d6 for Deep Strike

Witch Hunter: Kill 10 Enemy Psykers
Reward: Preferred Enemy(All Psykers)

Sergeant Awesome: The Squad Leader(Sergeant, Shas'ui, whatever) Must accumulate 15 Personal Kills
Reward: If the squad fails a Leadership Test, roll a d6: On a 4+, The squad may Re-Roll the leadership test using the Sergeant's Leadership

I Am Heavy Weapons Guy: In a squad that doesn't consist entirely of Heavy Weapon users, a model with a Heavy Weapon must accumulate 15 kills.
Reward: For one turn per game, the Heavy Weapon may be counted as either an Assault Weapon, or as Twin Linked. Declare which you will use before the Model begins shooting.

Drive Me Closer, I Want To Hit Them With My Sword(Vehicle Only): Vehicle must Ram or Tank Shock(successfully or not) 5 times.
Reward: Any vehicle this unit Rams also takes a Strength 9 hit on whatever facing is being rammed. Any unit the vehicle Tank Shocks immediately takes d3 wounds with all saves except cover saves allowed.

Vigilant Mind(Psykers Only): The Psyker must use its Psychic Powers to kill the last model in a squad or destroy a vehicle three times.
Reward: Before using a Psychic Power, the Psyker rolls a d6. On a 5+, the Psyker may use an extra Psychic Power this turn, but only one they know.

Officer And A Gentleman: The Squad Leader must have a Mustache sculpted or painted on. If his helmet covers it, too bad.
Reward: As long as the squad leader is alive, the squad always passes tests to Rally.

This is awesome lol. Did you just make it all up or are these rules you sometimes use?

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Made it all up.

**imark789**

If it were me and my friends were like minded, I would say just play with some RPG rules you agree on. It would make it fun, and I only play for fun anyways...

**CoI**

You could always have a proper campain, and earn 'xp' for doing these things that you can spend later. IE. Controling all objectives at the end of a game gives you +50xp. That xp can be used as upgrades over and above the point limit. So in a 1000pt game that person would have 1050pts to spend. But everyone gets xp, and not just for winning. You'd need some interesting rules and put some work into it, but I think Planetstrike might have something like this. Not sure though, as I don't own it.

**AnomanderRake**

I've seen campaign rules where you nominate your most valuable unit at the end of each battle and give it a veteran skill in the next battle, that's the easiest way I can think of.

There's also a minigame campaign that GW published once back in 4th edition in which you played with 500-point armies with extra restrictions on vehicle cost and wargear, and you controlled territories that granted you extra points to one or more of those three limits.

**candy.man**

I say use the campaign rules as a template and rework/enhance them to provide adequacy to provide a greater RPG feel.

**Your Friend Doctor Robert**

Anyone got a link to the campaign rules?

**Coolyo294**

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:Anyone got a link to the campaign rules?

It's in the back of the BRB.

**sluggaslugga**

Me and my friends just created a half Inquisitor half 40k RPG game... it's awesome!

**AnomanderRake**

I've had some success with a modified version of the Shadowrun ruleset if you're looking for a 40k RPG.

**Ixias**

Either run a campaign, or sneak a peek at Mordheim/Necromunda.

**The Zoat**

sluggaslugga wrote:Me and my friends just created a half Inquisitor half 40k RPG game... it's awesome!

I'd like to see this alleged
game....

**AnomanderRake**

Problem being there's not enough variation within the 40k stat system, so you can't really give people stat increases as they 'level up'. Putting restrictions on what units you can take in your army and what options each unit can take seems the only way you would be able to manage a level progression system in 40k.