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Okay, so my local club has 2 more questions.

I recently read a posting about how the tomb kings lords and heroes can't be healed. However the healing rule states any unit targeted gets healed. A hero on its own is its own unit right? therefore will be healed by, say, desert wind?

The next question has to do with dropping a template weapon, in this case a stone thrower, on a Dark Elf War Hydra. Does the crew get hit? Template weapons count as shooting attacks for look out sir, I know that. But does the hydra take the hits as per the hydra rule even if the template is covering the handlers?

I don't know about the TK specific stuff, but the DE rules for the hydra are pretty specifc (once you check the errata, anyway). The handlers pretty much only exist to deliver attacks. They don't even properly have to form up with it in close combat. The hydra takes all hits, period.

Its M&H now; you ignore the crew always.

If a character is by himself, then yes, he would be able to be healed with the lore attribute. Most TK players are angry at the fact that the "heal" spell has been changed to target units only. The old one allowed you to pick characters as well. This is what the difference is.

My two coppers...

Tk can be healed but they have to be by themselves as in a prince chillin all alone can be healed a prince in a unit cant sadly :( as far as I read the rules.

I dont know how the hydra works sorry.

Really? The consensus is that TK characters can be healed if they're on their own? That seems shady...

Well a tk and a tomb prince are very effective thats the thing and well the buffs the bring like hey you are now my ws which is 5 or 6 is kind of amazing skeles with killing blow and str 5 with ws 5 or 6 is harsh so kill those characters fast.

Red_Zeke wrote:Really? The consensus is that TK characters can be healed if they're on their own? That seems shady...

Yes, that's the general consensus I have seen on the TK boards. Since the Lore attribute is not a spell (via the FAQs from the WoC I believe), it doesn't fall under the limitations on healing TK characters.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Its M&H now; you ignore the crew always.

So if you fire a template weapon at an M&H unit, and the template scatters so that it only hits a crew member, it counts as missing?

Just checking in case anyone tries to pull this on me at any point and claims it hits the unit.

That's correct. The monster is the extent of the model. pg. 73

Handlers are ignored for all practical purposes. In most cases, the only to kill them is to hit the monster and have the hit randomise onto the handlers. In the case of the Hydra, specifically, the handlers have impenetrable deflector shields.

I'm really interested to see if GW is going to FaQ the TK question. I hate relying on my own reading of the rules, especially when I'm running a tournament.

So if i'm understanding this right. A TK character in a unit can be healed because the heal is the lore attribute. Sense the lore attribute is not a spell per WoC faq the TK character can be healed. Right?

As far as I have read it is the unit is healed not the character in it.

He has to be on his own to get wounds back like a sphinx can be healed.

A prince in a unit of skeles would be a no as far as I have it seems like you cant heal him.

Then comes the question the skele unit is at full health and the prince is down 1 wound you cast on them does the prince get the wound back then or still no is my question now haha.

That sounds like some TK players' wishful thinking. What in the world is that restriction referring to, if not the lore attribute?

Well the way I read it is you cast it on the unit so you heal the unit not the character in the unit.

While a chracter is joined to a unit they are not a seperate unit, by definition.

Thus there is one target (the unit) and one target only.

Wow - I always thought the characters would not be healed as per the rule on page 28. For ref: "Unless specifically stated otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts. If a character has joined a unit, only the unit will recover lost wounds."

The Restless Dead lore attribute states: "each time a wizard successfully casts an augment spell from the Lore of Nehekhara at a friendly, Nehekharan Undread unit, the target(s) of the spell recover d3+1 wounds as per resurrecting fallen warriors (the previous statement).

The Restless Dead is neither a spell or a magic item, it's a lore attribute (as per WoC FAQ). But... that lore attribute states it resurrects as per the rule on page 28. Sounds kind of like a catch 22.

Those are pretty much the facts. Now for the interpretation:

If the lore attribute resurrects as per the resurrecting fallen warriors rule but is a lore attribute and not a spell itself, it could refer to how wounds are recovered. That is, champion and musician first then skeletons but never banners, and never larger than the starting unit strength. Therefore, when the characters are targeted by the attribute the characters are healed.

Yes this may be wishful thinking on behalf of a TK player, and I would love to hear other interpretations.

Any other thoughts?

The limitation on healing seems to be directed at the lore attribute since TK have no other method of healing.

Applying the WoC FAQ across the board is a little odd.
I run a flying ethereal vampire.
You have lore of heavens.
You cast Ice Shard Blizzard on my vampire (-1 to hit).
Being a flier, he takes a D6 S4 hits from the lore attribute.
I came he's unaffected, because he's ethereal, and it's a lore attribute, not a spell, and nothing in the rules say lore attributes are magical.
Same situation, you target a blood thirster, you claim he doesn't get MR, because it isn't a spell.

Seems incorrect to me.

Well lore attributes have healed chars before.

I thought it was a pretty simple answer. No the characters can not be healed by tomb kings magic.

As 2000 Volts quoted "Unless specifically stated otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts. If a character has joined a unit, only the unit will recover lost wounds." The law atribute does not specificly say characters can be healed. That character ruling trumps the unspecific healing of the law atribute.

I also believe that is also the consensus at the tomb kings forum I frequent. That is also why you never see princes and kings on warsphinx'. If they could be healed then I think that they would be viable.

Also

Well lore attributes have healed chars before.

I agree other law atributes can but that comment is completely irrelevant to the question.

I spoke to Games Workshop customer service yesterday. His answer was there are only 2 ways in all of WHFB to heal tomb kings lords and heroes: The first is through items which will restore wounds (such as the unique sword in the TK list which heals when wounds are caused). The second is to somehow get a life mage into the army (like with that crazy 100 point hat item and a lucky roll... this option is actually easier now with storm of magic).

So there it is.

As for the hydra and crew question - no creature handlers in any list, to include the lizardmen handlers on their beasts, can be harmed by shooting. The models representing handlers are only that, a representation. All shooting/melee ect. is measured to the beast model, such as a hydra. As such templates will not cause multiple "hits" on a beast with a hydra.

The other interesting tidbit is howdah crew such as those on the warsphinx also can't be targeted. For all intents and purposes the "crew" are merely tokens representing a facet of that model's overall attack capability.

2000 Volts wrote:As for the hydra and crew question - no creature handlers in any list, to include the lizardmen handlers on their beasts, can be harmed by shooting. The models representing handlers are only that, a representation. All shooting/melee ect. is measured to the beast model, such as a hydra. As such templates will not cause multiple "hits" on a beast with a hydra.

The other interesting tidbit is howdah crew such as those on the warsphinx also can't be targeted. For all intents and purposes the "crew" are merely tokens representing a facet of that model's overall attack capability.

You might wanna rethink those statements, a wound caused from shooting goes to a handler instead of the beast on a 5+ (BRB pg. 73), and not all howdah crew are ignored the stegadon has old school rules and his crew are targettable in CC and can be randomised to by shooting, like a monster with multiple riders.