WoC - what's nice and what 'aint?

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**AlmightyWalrus**

I'm asking this stuff on behalf of a friend who's interested in starting up a WoC army.

Is there any point in buying the batallion box?

Marauders - how many and what kind of config?

Do the choppy Chaos Lord builds have any merit, or should he just stick to a Sorcerer Lord?

What lore for the Sorcerer(s)?

I'm guessing Chosen and Knights are awesomesauce despite the latter's cost. Right?

MoT/Shield or MoK/hand weapon on Chosen and Warriors? I'm guessing it depends on what you want them to do, but is one generally a better choice than the other?

Marauder Horsemen - yay or nay?

I'm guessing Shaggoths and Dragons are suffering just as much as every other monster in 8th, yes?

General tips and hints for a fledgling WoC general are also welcome!

**Ralin Givens**

Marauders are really good in 35+ units

Sorcerer Lords are better than Chaos Lords in everything besides pure CC killing power. Also MoT is the best for a LVL 4 to have as it makes him a Lvl5 for casting purposes.

Chosen are awesome but I am not a huge fan of Knights

If your going to take MoK I would sujest using Halberds

I really dislike Marauder horsemen as their kind of fragile.

Dragons are too hard to fit in a list, but I do like Shaggoths

**cowpow16**

Well Ralin said it.

I do like knights mine have always done well unless they are up against some supper killy combat lord.

Sorcerers are great tho casting magic flying around on a disc blasting things with gate way and treason and ya just fun haha.

Mok with halberds for sure and flaming banner nothing is safe from them.

The battalion isnt bad I traded the marauders for warriors because marauders only start being effective in sets of 40 and 50 with mok and gw imo.

Horsemen is a meh seen em work but that was in an all cave list.

Havent used any big monsters yet :(

I want trolls with throgg

Mot for sorcerers all the way and the boosted ward save is awesome show cannons whos boss oh you hit me ok well nom that was a tasty cannon ball haha.

Anyways thats what im thinking.

**HawaiiMatt**

I think the only thing everyone will agree on is that universally, Forsaken Suck.

-Matt

**Ralin Givens**

HawaiiMatt wrote:I think the only thing everyone will agree on is that universally, Forsaken Suck.

-Matt

Honestly I have never seen them in a list. And dont they have heavy armour to boot? Forsaken suck....

Stupid pain pills...anyway I would say another unit I would steer clear of is the palanquin just because it makes you count as calvary at M4....

**Trondheim**

Forsaken migth work at times, but the unit that is definitly a big NO is spawns and giants. Warriors and trolls are awesomsause, Chaos lords kitted out for CC will chew true anything, and as several others have posted, MoK, Halleberds and flaming banner is just great fun.

Horsemen it okay against warmachines, and maraders work well in blobbs. Oh and Lord on jugger alongside Knigths is just rape

**cowpow16**

I have seen them being used to defend a hellcannon hahahaha.

Why defend a hellcannon and from what

But ya um also spawn suck for anything over 1k no questions asked.

Giants rock so hard MOS you have a giant with asf do you know how amazing that is so funny yell and bawl ok I win by 2 now run away.

**Thunderfrog**

Marauder horsemen can be used to very good effect. I used a bunker of 14 of them for a mounted Chaos Sorceror and won two rounds of Ard' Boyz with them.

**cowpow16**

Very nice

Personallly I havent gotten around to getting any but ya those would be the only kind of marauders I would take since they are useful even if noy used as a bunker.

**HawaiiMatt**

I had a good deal of luck with massed spawns.
300 points gets you 4 ASF spawns. 4D6+4 attacks, that is ASF and unbreakable, and stomps.

The enemy not getting a charge reaction at all is pretty sweet. They'll take care of those pesky scouts, skirmishers, fast cav, or other annoying things that try and sneak around your charge arc.

If you could take units of spawns, I'd be all over that.

-Matt

**boogeyman**

HawaiiMatt wrote:I had a good deal of luck with massed spawns.
300 points gets you 4 ASF spawns. 4D6+4 attacks, that is ASF and unbreakable, and stomps.

The enemy not getting a charge reaction at all is pretty sweet. They'll take care of those pesky scouts, skirmishers, fast cav, or other annoying things that try and sneak around your charge arc.

If you could take units of spawns, I'd be all over that.

-Matt

That sounds good, I've never thought about that. To be honest, I've never been a fan of the model and never given them much thought, although unbreakable is pretty nice. If I plan on using a tyranid pyrovore for my hellcannon, maybe I can get away with a ravener brood as chaos spawn.

**cowpow16**

Put it on the right base and I dont see why anyone would complain

**Blackbone**

Even though they are not nearly as competitive as Daemons, Dark Elves, Lizardmen with Slaan, there are some things you should consider not using every game if you want to keep your friends:

Dual Hellcannons
Unit of Chosen along with Shrine, kitting out to reroll blessings until the end of time

I have been a good boy and filled out my Core first, but am now experimenting with different monsters. Picked up one of those Manticore riders for fun and going to try out a kitted-out Chaos Lord.

- Blackbone

**cowpow16**

Dual hellcannons are not that mean but yes chosen that don't die that is mean.

Depending what points level you play if low points 2 hc are mean.

**lixulana**

dont underestimate warshines and favour of the gods.

nothing wrecks someones day like 50 TZ marauders + GW + 3+ ward save.

not as evil as TZ warriors with shields and 3+ ward but its close

**cowpow16**

Well the thing is you have your eye of the gods chart with different things that happen from 2 to 12.

Chosen specifically get 1 roll at the beginning if the game re rolling 2s and 7s until another result is obtained.
So there goes stupidity and the eye is closed.
Now we add the wailing banner and the unit causes fear and terror eliminating 2 more outcomes.
Doing the math we now have 4 less options on the table giving us a total of 7 potential out comes.
We add the favor onto that which lets us add or subtract 1 to the roll.
Thus we get to re roll 2s 3s 6s 7s 8s 9s and 10s (since 11 would get us the ward save that we want if we add the 1 to that).

That being said you get 1 roll at the beginning because thats how chosen roll, followed by 2 war shrines.

So you have 3 chances to get the ward save and then it really dosnt matter all too much what you get with the other 2 so ya.

This really does make people sad since that unit becomes tough as nails (better ward save and armor than those silly HE guys).

**HawaiiMatt**

What am I missing that lets you re-roll 2's?
Is that in the warshrine rules?

-Matt

**cowpow16**

Read chosen of the dark gods rule under chosen "re rolling any the eye is closed or insanity results until another result is obtained".

Unless I missed something in the FAQ.

**HawaiiMatt**

cowpow16 wrote:Read chosen of the dark gods rule under chosen "re rolling any the eye is closed or insanity results until another result is obtained".

Unless I missed something in the FAQ.

Right, chosen re-roll 2's and 7's.
Warshrines re-roll duplicate gifts.
Favor of the Gods lets you +/- 1 on any roll EXCEPT 2.

I've seen the chosen star talked about, and faced it a few times, I'm just not sure what the rule is that lets the shrine re-roll a 2.

-Matt

**cowpow16**

Well its not the shrines that lets them re roll 2s its the unit being blessed so good times.

Yes the chosen star is nasty Matt.

**HawaiiMatt**

cowpow16 wrote:Well its not the shrines that lets them re roll 2s its the unit being blessed so good times.

Yes the chosen star is nasty Matt.

If the shrines don't let you re-roll the 2, and favor of the gods doesn't let you modify a 2, aren't you just as likely to get stuck with stupid as the super ward save?

-Matt

**cowpow16**

? I don't quite know what you mean?

If your shrines bless a warrior unit and roll snake eyes then they are stupid.

Chosen clearly say always re roll 2s and 7s on eye, so seeing as the shrines make the chosen roll on eye of the gods the chosen re roll 2s and 7s until you get something else.

**Ralin Givens**

If you put a stupid hero or lord in the unit (helm of many eyes) would that allow you to reroll the 2?

**Thunderfrog**

No. the FAQ is clear about not rerolling because a unit is already stupid.

**Ralin Givens**

Ah did not know about the FAQ

**Infreak**

With favour of the gods you can add or subtract 1 from the result. Therefore you would never get a 2 because you'd add 1 to have a final result of 3. I'm fairly certain thats how the re-roll on a two is achieved. Not really sure what a 3 on the chart is though.

**cowpow16**

Well the hero gets the blessing but if ge is in the unit I don't know if you still get to re roll 2s.

You are best of with 1 unit of chosen blessed with 2 shrines and favor if the gods and mot.

Faq states the unit is stupid can get stupid again but itdosnt change a thing.

Chosen are immune to 2s and 7s.

**HawaiiMatt**

cowpow16 wrote:Well the hero gets the blessing but if ge is in the unit I don't know if you still get to re roll 2s.

You are best of with 1 unit of chosen blessed with 2 shrines and favor if the gods and mot.

Faq states the unit is stupid can get stupid again but itdosnt change a thing.

Chosen are immune to 2s and 7s.

I thought chosen were immune to 2's and 7's with their pre-game roll, not with all the warshires boosts.

-MAtt

**cowpow16**

Blah blah "a chosen unit may roll once on the eye of the gods table at the beginning of the battle, re-rolling any "the eye is closed" or "Insanity!" result until another result is obtained." blah blah blah.

That and the way the rule is described it sounds like they always do.

**Krellnus**

cowpow16 wrote:Blah blah "a chosen unit may roll once on the eye of the gods table at the beginning of the battle, re-rolling any "the eye is closed" or "Insanity!" result until another result is obtained." blah blah blah.

That and the way the rule is described it sounds like they always do.

Seems pretty clear that they are only re rolling "Insanity" and "The eye is closed" at the start of the game only.