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Hey there Dakka. So I would really like to go to 'Ard Boyz with this list. I am trying hard to obtain some Meganobz (they are damn near impossible to find). Anyway, in light of the new FAQ, I decided to try this list out. I wanted to get some feedback from the interwebs as well. Let me know what you think....everything should be fairly straight forward and obvious. Ghazzy rolls with Grotsnik and the Kommando Boyz and scares the gak out of pretty much anything in the game.

HQ

Ghazghkull Thraka - 225
Mad Dok Grotsnik - 160

Elites

15x Burna Boys - 225
15x Kommandos - Snikrot, 2x Burna - 15x Cybork Body - 340

Troops

10x Meganobz - 5x Kombi-Scorcha, 5x Kombi-Rokkit, 10x Cybork Bodies;
Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Boarding Planks, Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Big Shoota - 640

20x Shoota Boyz - 2x Rokkit Launchas, Nob w/ Power Klaw - 175
20x Shoota Boyz - 2x Rokkit Launchas, Nob w/ Power Klaw - 175

Fast Attack

Deffkopta - TL Rokkit Launcha, Buzzsaw - 70
Deffkopta - TL Rokkit Launcha, Buzzsaw - 70

Heavy Support

Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Boarding Planks, Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Big Shoota - 140
Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Boarding Planks, Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Big Shoota - 140
Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Grot Riggers, Boarding Planks, Deff Rolla, Red Paint Job, Big Shoota - 140

Giving this a bump up. Would love to hear thoughts/suggestions/warnings on the list. I know it's difficult to judge an 'Ard Boyz list because we won't have the missions available yet, but I think this army can table opponents as well as have enough to contest with as well.

Right now, I have Mad Dok, and Ghazzy coming in with the Kommandos. I'm CONSIDERING putting Mad Dok with the Meganobz, losing 1 to fit him in, and taking off all the RPJ's on my vehicles to fit a 3rd Deffkopta in. I'm not too keen on that though, because I don't want to get caught with my pants down with the meganobz as I'm susceptible to Mad Dok's rage rule. With the Kommandos, the rule doesn't really affect you much, as you are coming in close to an enemy you intend to assault anyway.

Anyway, thanks in advance!

The Grotsnik Commnandos are just SOOO many points. I'd drop that squad for another full squad of Boyz, 2 min squads of Lootas and a squad of Grots. That almost doubles your anti-transport abilities and your number of scoring units for the same number of points.

Okay, thanks for changing my list entirely Didn't think to just NOT run the centerpiece of the list. Should have just typed "moar boyzzz," or just linked me DoP's Ork list and moved on, that'd have been easier

Doh, at wtf, that would mean a squad of footsloggin boys, because he has hs slots full.


This looks like a good list, not to sure about rokkits in the boys squad, i would make suggest big shootas but i have no idea what to do with the remaining 10, maybe stikkbomb chukkas on the meganob squad

Meganobz wouldn't need Stikkbomb chukkas would they? They strike last anyway.

The rokkits are there to just add more AT if I need it, or if my shootas in the wagon shoot at some power armor, at least the rokkits (if they hit) are an auto kill. Yeah, i'm lukewarm on them as well, but not much else to spend points on really. Unless I take RPJ's off, take rokkits off...and mayyyyybe squeeze in a 3rd Deffkopta.

It is sad to say that you are partially correct about not needing stick bomb chukkas for the meganobz because the strike last...

The most correct answer is they do not need stick bomb chukkas on their wagons because meganobz strangely come with stickbombs....

QuietOrkmi wrote:It is sad to say that you are partially correct about not needing stick bomb chukkas for the meganobz because the strike last...

The most correct answer is they do not need stick bomb chukkas on their wagons because meganobz strangely come with stickbombs....

I thought so too, but I wasn't sure. Now I remember....it's basically just a sick joke lol.

Hrm, I like this list a lot, it contains all but 2 of the elements I consider most effective in the ork codex (the last being lootas and big mek KFF's), but I also see a lot of points spent on questionably effective units/upgrades.

First, how effective have you found the very costly cybork body upgrades on the kommandos? I know it would make them marginally more effective in combat, but is it worth so very many points?

Second, how have you found the restrictions of the Mad Dok? FNP means those kommandos are quite tough, but Rage means you can be pretty easily manipulated by a canny opponent into following a rhino around all game. It also means that Ghazzy cant leave the unit and maneuver away from his unit (and stop slowing them down). To top it all off, he takes up a slot that could be used for a Big Mek with a KFF to make those battle wagons twice as resilient.

Third, I totally agree with the rokkit launchas on the shoota squads, but I'm less sure about paying for them on the meganobs. Have you found them to be worth the points?

Finally, what use do you find deffkoptas to be at 2500 pts? I mean, 140 pts for str 6 powerfists and effectively BS 3 rokkits is a bit much.

I would love to see points made for A) a unit of lootas and B) a boyz unit to sit on your home objectives.

Doh, at wtf, that would mean a squad of footsloggin boys, because he has hs slots full.


This looks like a good list, not to sure about rokkits in the boys squad, i would make suggest big shootas but i have no idea what to do with the remaining 10, maybe stikkbomb chukkas on the meganob squad

Iron-Fist wrote:Hrm, I like this list a lot, it contains all but 2 of the elements I consider most effective in the ork codex (the last being lootas and big mek KFF's), but I also see a lot of points spent on questionably effective units/upgrades.

First, how effective have you found the very costly cybork body upgrades on the kommandos? I know it would make them marginally more effective in combat, but is it worth so very many points?

I have been questioning this myself, so I'm glad you brought it up. I think what the Cybork bodies do is make the Kommandos unafraid of anything to charge. That is, if you are a Dreadnought, if you are a beastly HQ, we don't care, we can still stick around and fight if we need to. Plus, ironically it gives them a better save than their 6+ tshirts, making them effectively like a nob unit with a painboy and cybork, 5++/FNP. But, the cost being what it is, I question it heavily.

Second, how have you found the restrictions of the Mad Dok? FNP means those kommandos are quite tough, but Rage means you can be pretty easily manipulated by a canny opponent into following a rhino around all game. It also means that Ghazzy cant leave the unit and maneuver away from his unit (and stop slowing them down). To top it all off, he takes up a slot that could be used for a Big Mek with a KFF to make those battle wagons twice as resilient.

What exactly do you mean by Ghazzy can't leave the unit? I think you are confusing Mad Dok's restriction of joining a unit and not being able to leave it, with Ghazzy's. Ghazzy is an IC so he can leave and join that unit as he pleases with special restrictions like Mad Dok has. Also...when he is with the unit, the unit is actually not slowed down by him. Being that Ghazzy is an IC, and so is Mad Dok, they get move through cover automatically, and guess what...Kommandos also have move through cover So they just roll a 3d6 and move...which are not bad chances at all.

I do have a rules question that I will pose in case someone can clarify for me real fast: Is Ghazzy able to split from the unit the moment they come in from reserves? That way, the unit does not have to be slowed down by his Slow and Purposeful even the turn they come in?

Third, I totally agree with the rokkit launchas on the shoota squads, but I'm less sure about paying for them on the meganobs. Have you found them to be worth the points?

I believe they are. The ability to at least have the slight chance to pop a transport before assaulting the contents, or to shoot at an MC before assaulting seems pretty good. Although I can see many instances where I'd just be using a Waaagh from Ghazzy after moving 12, disembarking 2, fleeting 6 and assaulting 6. Most of the time though, they will wipe what they are assaulting, and be left out in the open... They can then make use of possibly shooting and assaulting the next closest transport.

Finally, what use do you find deffkoptas to be at 2500 pts? I mean, 140 pts for str 6 powerfists and effectively BS 3 rokkits is a bit much.

Well, they are str7 on the charge actually, and I can't think of a better existing alpha strike unit in the game for the point cost. Nor can I think of a more efficient way to outflank in objective games and contest with a 24" boost and a 3+ cover save. Imagine facing any army with transports and going first....you have some pretty high chances of either a. popping 2 transports right off the bat or b. creating a nice little distraction for your opponents. No one likes a str 7 power fist running around on a jetbike that shoots a str 8 rocket and has hit and run. Why hello there Longfangs/any light transport in the game. Also, I am pretty low on kill points, so I can afford to give up 2 easy ones for the possibility of some greatness in alpha striking/contesting/distracting.

I would love to see points made for A) a unit of lootas and B) a boyz unit to sit on your home objectives.

Orks should not be sitting on objectives imo. Grots are for doing such things, and I don't really see a need to run them. Lootas are far too susceptible to stay back alone while the convoy goes forward and the sneaky gits ambush. Seems like a waste to me.


Some fine points you bring up nonetheless. Thank you

About Ghazzy not being able to leave the unit, because he is part of the same unit as Mad Dok, he has to move towards the nearest enemy as fast as he can, so he can't leave of his own accord in the movement phase.

IC's can't leave units when entering from reserve, as per the rule book FAQ.

If you find the deffkoptas effective, thats good, but they cost the same as 10x lootas, who have much better chances of killing transports/putting wounds on anything.

If you are playing objective games, do you leave one of the battle wagons at home to hold your objective? Seems wasteful.

What do you mean lootas are susceptible? They are still orks in CC, so it takes a pretty dedicated assault unit to take them out, and in cover they are resilient to shooting.

He has Move Through Cover, though, and also confers Slow And Purposeful, so maybe if the unit rolls low on the 2d6 and he rolls higher on 3d6, he'd pull ahead?

Iron-Fist wrote:About Ghazzy not being able to leave the unit, because he is part of the same unit as Mad Dok, he has to move towards the nearest enemy as fast as he can, so he can't leave of his own accord in the movement phase.

IC's can't leave units when entering from reserve, as per the rule book FAQ.

If you find the deffkoptas effective, thats good, but they cost the same as 10x lootas, who have much better chances of killing transports/putting wounds on anything.

If you are playing objective games, do you leave one of the battle wagons at home to hold your objective? Seems wasteful.

What do you mean lootas are susceptible? They are still orks in CC, so it takes a pretty dedicated assault unit to take them out, and in cover they are resilient to shooting.

Hmm....is there some FAQ about this? I don't see how Ghazzy, or any other IC besides Mad Dok is stuck in that unit if they join it as per Mad Dok's rules. IC's are IC's...they are able to join and leave units as they please. For example...are you saying if an IC joins a unit with Rage, he can never leave? That doesn't sound right to me.... Would appreciate it if you could point me to an official rule that states that Ghazzy, or any IC other than Mad Dok himself cannot leave the unit that Mad Dok is part of once they are part of it.

In objective games, if it's Seize Ground, I am always placing in in the middle of the table as an Ork player. In Capture and Control, you can always defend your home obj by dropping out your boyz in one of the wagons and moving the wagon forward with the convoy. Same can be done for Seize Ground, as a unit of 20 boyz can cover a lot of ground, many times contesting multiple objectives. Though I will concede that Capture and Control is not my best outcome, but I can still work with it.

Orks are not good in CC if they don't charge. A unit of 5 Lootas with str3 and 2 attacks each is not going to deter any outflanking unit. At best, they have only tied you up for a couple rounds...at which point they are still putting your lootas out of commission and denying them of their role.

Anvildude wrote:He has Move Through Cover, though, and also confers Slow And Purposeful, so maybe if the unit rolls low on the 2d6 and he rolls higher on 3d6, he'd pull ahead?

The whole unit has Move through Cover. Ghazzy and Mad Dok because they are IC's. And the Kommandos because they're Kommandos

Mad Dok if I remember right basically forms a retinue when joined with another unit as he stops being a I.C.

The list is cool, just need some Gretchin to hold your own objectives.

mercer wrote:Mad Dok if I remember right basically forms a retinue when joined with another unit as he stops being a I.C.

The list is cool, just need some Gretchin to hold your own objectives.

Thanks Mercer. But my question is, what is preventing Ghaz from joining/leaving the unit? I know Mad Dok cannot leave any unit HE joins until every model in the unit besides him is gone, then he can move around like an IC again. But from what Iron Fist keeps insinuating that Ghazzy can't leave that unit....I'd like to see some ruling for that because I can't make sense of it, and I haven't been able to find it on the interwebs or any rule that supports that claim in the BRB/FAQs.

i want to see your models

I do really like that you noticed that Ghazzy and the kommandos all have move through cover, I've been cheating myself!

what is preventing Ghaz from joining/leaving the unit?

The Unit is subject to the rage USR. As long as Ghazzy is joined to the Unit he rages also. So the whole unit (including Ghaz) moves towards the nearest enemy model at the speed of the slowest model in the unit (which would be Ghaz S&P roll). This will keep Ghazzy within 2" and attached, keeping him raged and slowing the unit even more. The Move thru cover rule will allow Ghaz a 3rd Dice on his S&P roll, but your still leaving it up to the dice-gods for how fast your moving.

I think the only way out of that trap would be to move another foot unit within 2" of Ghaz so on the next turn Ghaz could legally join the new unit. The raged unit would still follow the Rhino, and the new unit with Ghaz would be subject to his S&P roll the next turn, but you could use that movement phase to detach Ghaz at that point...but then that would be about turn 5 and you essentially have tied up 4 units for the game at the price of a Rhino.

Not Rage. It's One Scalpel Short of a Medpack. It's similar to Rage, but not Rage.

Right, he can consolidate where ever he wants, and he can run where ever he wants, but only in the movement phase can he possibly move out of coherency of a unit and leave it, so it works out the same way. Basically, if you join a rage unit you can't leave.

Hmmm...interesting. This makes me rethink this list.

NOT Rage! One Scalpel Short! Different!

Anvildude wrote:NOT Rage! One Scalpel Short! Different!

So are you saying.....Ghaz can leave or what?

The way I'm seeing it is, any IC who is not Mad Dok should be able to join and leave as they please. Simply because before any move is made, you can trigger the IC move with Ghaz, move him more than 2" away from the unit, then the unit makes their "scalpel" move. Isn't that how it works?

From what a couple people are saying though, can it be that any IC joining a unit that Dok is in is stuck in there? That seems really bad to me.

Are you playing 'Ard Boys at Game Empire?

I am 99% sure I talked this over with Disdainful once and we came to the conclusion that you are stuck and that's how hes ruling it.

There isn't a FAQ or anything it's all on the TO. So you do have that knowledge on your side now.

2500 points is a different monster. I mean you have seen my BW list in action I think and its strong, but I think we start to get outclassed at 2500 unless you have 5+ BWS.

I am personally bringing 2 nobs deathstars at 2500.

Especially at GE, imagine all the most rediculous stuff you can come up with. It will be there.

3 heralds of khorne attached to 10 Blood crushers?
Giant TWC swarms
30 man DC squads with a priest and lemartes.
triple landraider
oh man, Deathwing at 2500 is stupid.

what I am saying is... MORE HAMMERS!

I also agree that Grots seem silly at 2500, but I still might take them.

Yeah I'm considering a couple spots but GE is on my list atm.

I think based on that, I'm going to make some changes to the list. I think I have another setup without Dok that may even work better. Will post list later.

Erudog wrote:

Anvildude wrote:NOT Rage! One Scalpel Short! Different!

So are you saying.....Ghaz can leave or what?

The way I'm seeing it is, any IC who is not Mad Dok should be able to join and leave as they please. Simply because before any move is made, you can trigger the IC move with Ghaz, move him more than 2" away from the unit, then the unit makes their "scalpel" move. Isn't that how it works?

From what a couple people are saying though, can it be that any IC joining a unit that Dok is in is stuck in there? That seems really bad to me.

I agree. The rule only says Mad Dok cannot leave if, this shouldn't and doesn't affect any other I.C if I remember right. Is there a FAQ which says this?

Why rokkits on the shoota boys? They should be using big shootas IMHO -- as you dont want to waste the other 18 shots.

Meganobs are cool, but their extremely expensive for what they deliver. I'm looking at those 10 meganobs and just thinking that if their BW is a juicy target, if its destroyed, then you will have 11 models moving slowly and purposefully. Instead of those meganobs, I would suggest nob bikers for the following reasons.
* You can add a mad doc, so you don't need grotsnik -- this can save points.
* You can have them count as troops with another warboss.
* With their cover save, they will be much more relieant to LC/PG than the meganobs.
* They are much faster than a battlewagon, and can turbo-boost on the first round.
* You will save the cost for a 4th battlewagon

Also the deffkoptas. You can bringing 2 of them, and their a one trick pony that works 50% of the time vs. an unaware opponent. Personally I'm not a fan of a trick that works 50% of the time, and your investing 140 points into it. For those points you can bring some lootas, which will be a lot more reliable.

Ghaz can leave

The Dok is a total nutcase, widely regarded as being crazier than a fevered MadBoy on a full moon. He is fearless, as is any unit he joins. Furthermore, Grotsnik is so bloodthisty that he will always move as fast as possible towards the nearest enemy unit, assaulting if possible. The bloodlust is confered to any unit he joins, he may not leave it unless he is the alst remaining member of that unit

As you can see, he does not have rage is never written (ie: fearless is written). Also, it says he cannot leave but says nothing about other IC, since the basic rles about IC are not overuled, another IC can join and leave the units as normal.

labmouse42 wrote:Why rokkits on the shoota boys? They should be using big shootas IMHO -- as you dont want to waste the other 18 shots.

Meganobs are cool, but their extremely expensive for what they deliver. I'm looking at those 10 meganobs and just thinking that if their BW is a juicy target, if its destroyed, then you will have 11 models moving slowly and purposefully. Instead of those meganobs, I would suggest nob bikers for the following reasons.
* You can add a mad doc, so you don't need grotsnik -- this can save points.
* You can have them count as troops with another warboss.
* With their cover save, they will be much more relieant to LC/PG than the meganobs.
* They are much faster than a battlewagon, and can turbo-boost on the first round.
* You will save the cost for a 4th battlewagon

Also the deffkoptas. You can bringing 2 of them, and their a one trick pony that works 50% of the time vs. an unaware opponent. Personally I'm not a fan of a trick that works 50% of the time, and your investing 140 points into it. For those points you can bring some lootas, which will be a lot more reliable.

Well I do own 4 Wagons, so the cost is not an issue if that's the cost you were referring to.

I'd love to run Nob Bikers, if I had them. That's one project I am yet to take on (making nob bikers), but just don't have the time right now to do that sort of conversion. For now, i'm probably just gonna stick with straight diversified nobz. I'll post a list to show where I'm taking the list now...not too far off from its original trajectory, but just working with what I have. I think it's actually a better list now to be honest.

I like the koptas for what they do: first turn, you are getting an alpha strike no matter what, second turn, you are outflanking and potentially getting some rear armor later or contesting objectives. I like having them around as they are a distraction to be dealt with.

Here's the revised list I plan on taking:

HQ - 330

Big Mek - Burna, Kustom Force Field - 105

Ghazghkull Thraka - 225


Elites - 715

15x Burna Boyz - 225

15x Kommandos - Boss Snikrot, 2x Burna - 265

15x Lootas - 225


Troops - 834

Gretchin - 13x Gretchin, Runt Herder w/ Grabba Stikk - 49

Nobz - Battlewagon - Armour Plating, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Stikkbomb Chukka - 487
Nob - Ammo Runt, Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-Weapon
Nob - Ammo Runt, Bosspole, Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-Weapon
Nob - Cybork Body, Power Klaw, Slugga
Nob - Ammo Runt, Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-Weapon
Nob - Ammo Runt, Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-Weapon, Waagh Banner
Nob - Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Slugga
Painboy

19x Ork Boyz, Nob w/ Power Klaw - 149
19x Ork Boyz, Nob w/ Power Klaw - 149


Fast Attack - 210

Deffkopta - Buzzsaw, Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha - 70
Deffkopta - Buzzsaw, Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha - 70
Deffkopta - Buzzsaw, Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcha - 70


Heavy Support - 410

Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers - 135
Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers - 135
Battlewagon - Armour Plates, Big Shoota, Boarding Plank, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, Stikkbomb Chukka - 140

Would love to hear your comments, as usual