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My third 40k game (1500 or 2000 points) is coming up and while I think I am on grips with the rules of the game (studying FTW) Im still refining my skill with using the Tau.
A friend told me my opponent was bragging out loud in the shop that he intends to overwhelm my army with platoon upon platoon of guardsmen and such....Claiming that there is nothing I can do to withstand that attack.....I imagine I would be able to whittle down the guardsmen a good deal but I think I want to ask the collective minds of Dakka Dakka's Tau players (or even IG players who wish to divulge their weaknesses ) on how you would deal with this.....

Of course this could also be a ploy to make me think hes using infantry so i can make my list geared for anti-infantry but that's a infinity loop mind frame i care not to enter.

Anyways could you please share your ideas for this upcoming battle with me?

Thanks in advance.

Beware of anything that can manage to get close: Valkyrie and over-numbered chimeras that you just cannot deal with at the same time. And use your pinning pulse carbine + markerlight combo wisely.

To mix it up a little bit I would also advise take missile pod spam on battlesuits; if you know you are not expecting so much Leman Russ from your enemy then missile pod would be more versatile in meeting targets like chimeras and guardsmen.

Being playing Tau as my first 40k army with one of my friends since 2008 before I changed into Space Wolves when I was stateside 2010. My friend still plays Tau so you would find guys here who know a things or two about the Greater Good.

Ohhh boy. I remember fighting a Guard army like that. Good times...

You know what Platoon after Platoon of IG hate, Pie. Specificly giant plates of screaming metal death pie. Bring Hammerheads. Pie Plate him into Oblivion!


Other than That, I would say dress your Crisis suits with high volume of fire weapons

Maybe a Shas'el with a Burst Cannon and a Cyclic Ion Blaster with a Multitracker and HW Targetting array. Burst Cannon flamers Multitrackers for the other suits. Or you could forgo Crisis suits and use Stealthsuits with Targetting arrays.

NOW Here is the kicker!

I wouldn't doubt that he is expecting you to do that and then bring a Mech Army, so out of everything I suggested, I would say maybe only two hammerheads and the shas'el. You could do a squad of deathrains (TL Misslepods and a Flamer) to help cover mech just in case. Instead of three hammerheads, I would bring a BRoadside squad, even if you don't have any mech to fire upon, they have Smart missle systems that can be used instead of the railguns.

I would actually advise against missile pods. They are going to be really inefficient against guardsmen, and won't destroy armor that well. Go with burst cannons and flamers on your suits. Make sure to bring at least a full unit of broadsides; at those points levels he will be able to put down a lot of armor, and XV88's are your best choice for AT. Hammerheads with railguns will also be your best friends. Those pie plates will be indespensible against the legions of men, and in a pinch can put a hole through some tanks.

This is one of the few cases where firewarriors won't be a hinderance. Pulse rifles will be wounding guardsmen on 2's, and ignore their armor. In return, guardsmen will be average trying to wound your firewarriors. The only thing you have to look out for is artillery, which will turn the blue skins to dust. Make sure to bring some kroot along, and use them to deter assaults.

Getting into assault with guardsmen isn't that bad of a situation. Firwarriors and guardsmen are pretty evenly matched in that respect, they just tend to come in larger numbers. Also, a hidden powerfist isn't going to do much good for him. If he does get into assault with your firewarriors, try to counter assault with some kroot. The kroot will get plenty of attacks, and are striking at the same time, with a higher strength. Just make sure to put some hounds in those units, because you are going to need as many attacks as possible to wade through the sea of men. On the other hand, don't get your suits into assault with guardsmen, unless its just to mop up a severely depleted squad. They will simply drown your suits in attacks, and your suits are too precious to waste like that.


Overall, number of shots is paramount, kill the armor ASAP, and try to avoid getting stuck in. Let me know how the match goes.

I have to agree with everything that's been said so far. Additionally, I suggest outflanking with some Kroot to catch him later in the game if possible - completely take him by surprise and overwhelm part of his forces by sheer number of chicken men.

Also:







(hint: watch the rest of the batrep.)

PraetorDave's advice is pretty good.

1. Firestorms (BC/MP) put out the best volume fire and do great vs. GEqs, without getting close with flamers (the one part of PDave's advice I'd not advocate).
2. Pie-plates.
3. Kroot, in big, spread out units, infiltrated.

Well, speaking as a Guard player who has a regular Tau opponent, I can offer some tips you can use (as I have been absolutely creamed before by him).

1) Railheads - These things are golden (as if this couldn't be stressed enough). You're getting a S10 AP1 gun against any LRBT he has in his lines, as well as a large blast template for attacking platoons. These are going to be high priority targets for him if he's at all smart, so play them defensively. If he has any outflankers, secure a way to respond to them quickly. Make sure to take Disruption Pods.

2) Flamer Suits - Normally, not the greatest by consensus on a lot of forums, but Emperor do they have merit. Ever had a platoon roasted by 3 TL Flamers, for a relatively low point cost when you consider the survivability of the average Crisis suit? It hurts, a lot. With the way the rules work now, you can equip a unit of Crisis as such:

Crisis Suit 1 - TL Flamer, Blacksun Filter
Crisis Suit 2 - TL Flamer, Multi Tracker
Crisis Suit 3 - TL Flamer, Target Lock

The 3rd hardpoints are completely arbitrary and useless in themselves, except for the fact that with wound distribution you now need 4 unsaved wounds to kill a suit. It's nasty (and a bit cheesy, but with an out of date book, go for it.)

3) Stay Mobile - Your troops should be units of 6 Fire Warriors in a barebones Devilfish. Use these to take objectives or draw fire. Don't worry about them doing damage, they're most likely not going to. Utilize Battle Suits and Tanks mobility to keep your opponent on their toes.

4) Keep your Priorities Straight - Infantry Guard use orders like there's no tomorrow, and for good reason. Eliminate Company Command Squads as quickly as possible, but don't dedicate all of your resources to it. If he's using Creed, his orders bubble will be huge, and therefore his squads will most likely be spread out. When you've got a gap, go for an attack. CCS are small and fragile, and footsloggers will most likely be too slow to catch your suits if you hit them from behind.

That's a lot of what you need to know. Be sure to use cover to your advantage, and don't fear dangerous terrain tests for your suits. The low risk of wounds on your suits is totally worth avoiding a huge amount of gunfire. You should be mobile enough to avoid some of his units, and that will be your biggest asset. Don't let yourself get pincered in, as 40 men on either side of you will make escape rather difficult.

For the greater good, friend.

honestly.... I wouldn't taylor my list vs your IG opponent. I'd suggest twin pods with flamers on suits. I'd also suggest the kroot units outflank (but this is a basic tactic again you should have on all of your suits)

pie plate hammer heads are good, but so are SMS broadside shots. You really don't need to taylor anything vs IG as most of your weaponry is good vs them.

Just do yourself a favor. NO VESPID.

I wouldn't advice you to taylor your list too much, since that is lame and stupid.
But if your opponent is a real ass and needs to be thought a lesson or two, take flamers, flamers and more flamers and burn those brave little guys off the field.
It's best if you keep some railguns in the back of your field to deal with any anti-tank that he got.

Have fun,
Loner

Thanks for the replies everyone....Im starting to get a clearer picture of how I should go about this. Although I am a bit weary of bringing my suits close enough to be supremely effective with a flamer....

Just to let you guys know...here is my "garrison" of available resources:

36 FW's
1 Hammerhead
2 broadsides
16 kroot
an endless amount of utility storage closets filled with so many gun drones my poor tau have no idea what to do with all of them
6 XV8's (i usually take the XV8 HQ shas'o w/ 2 BG's)
8 pathfinders (with or without rail rifle option)
1 devilfish
6 stealth suits
1 "experimental" XV9 with phased ion guns (has been approved for use by local shop house rules)

I would definitely use the hammerhead and the two broadsides. I'm currently in a 1000pt tournament amongst friends right now, and I have 2 one-man broadside teams, and they are working wonders, so you may want to consider that. I'm personally not a big fan of kroot, but since you have them, infilitrate the hell outta them! The only thing that makes me cringe a little is the fact you only have 1 devilfish. If you can buy/borrow/proxy more of those, do it. You'll need those for getting your 36 FWs around. TL BC and a shield generator would help on the XV8s. You'll need those BC shots to count, plus the SG will give you protection against any heavy weapons he will fire at you if you're not in cover, especially if he brings Marbo. But 2 three-man squads of Crisis, 1 six-man squad of stealth suits, and a commander with a body guard will cover the bases with your suits, not to mention add a lot of fire power to your side of the board. If you still have points left over, fill it with gun drones, lol. Anywho, good luck man. Kick some ass in the name of the Greater Good, and let us know how this goes!

i play foot slog gaurd, things i dont like include fast things, pie plates, fire and things with more range than me

also i dislike people killing my commissars, CCS and fancy expensive tanks

Try to quiet there vehicles. If you dont destroy them then thats ok. Just get the Crew Shaken and Stunned resluts and you should do alright.

Hans_Einberg wrote:Thanks for the replies everyone....Im starting to get a clearer picture of how I should go about this. Although I am a bit weary of bringing my suits close enough to be supremely effective with a flamer....

Just to let you guys know...here is my "garrison" of available resources:

36 FW's
1 Hammerhead
2 broadsides
16 kroot
an endless amount of utility storage closets filled with so many gun drones my poor tau have no idea what to do with all of them
6 XV8's (i usually take the XV8 HQ shas'o w/ 2 BG's)
8 pathfinders (with or without rail rifle option)
1 devilfish
6 stealth suits
1 "experimental" XV9 with phased ion guns (has been approved for use by local shop house rules)

Yeah man that's what we are talking about: Pathfinders with markerlights with some expendable points of pinning-pulse-carbine gun drones! Remember they also have jetpacks, like battlesuits; Don't forget to jump BACK behind BLOS cover during the assault phase. Strip the enemy of their chance of shooting at you at all!

If you don't like the insecure feeling of letting the battlesuits use flamers in Guardsmen's face, then surely TL missile pods plus burst cannon would do for you. Again use jetpacks wisely; You can use terrains on enemy flanks to kite on enemy hordes.

I won't worry about anti-armor ability of you as I can see you have enough railguns in your pocket. Do't expect much from XV9 though; IA rules needs speculations to work when fighting wider community.

A lot of people also underestimate the potential of XV25s; their stealth field works just fine when you want to reduce the number of sufficient incoming fire; Just don't forget to demand your opponent to check the range he can actually "see". Remember they have jetpacks too! Use burst cannon to reap the Guardsmen and take a fusion blaster to provide additional anti-armor ability if the opponent chooses to let his Guardsmen jump into a chimera and try to disembark-rapid fire your XV25.

i say blow those guardsmen to hell'n back....for the greater good....use railheads and burst cannons....

Your stealth suits can actually be very useful here. Use their infiltrate move (it might be scout, can't remember right now) to get them into terrain near a blob. Try to be <18" but >12". That way the stealth fields have a chance of saving them. Six stealth suits firing into a guard blob will decimate it quickly. 18 str 5 shots that ignore guardsmen armor? oh yeah

Kroot absolutely MURDER guardsmen in Close Combat. Outflank as many kroot as you can, and slam them into him. He won't know what hit him.

Mix that with Hammerheads, lots of fire warriors for 30" range str5 and high fire volume weapons on your suits.

IG actually aren't too bad of a matchup for Tau.

For suits id advise Firestorm (MP/BC/MT) death rain (TLMP/Flamer/TA) or suits with flamers and burstcannons. MP dont blow stuff upp, just scilence them. Flamers and BC can kill infantry very easy. IG is one of those armies were pinning actualy do stuff scince they have easily killed models and low LD, so you could use gun drones. Even firewarriors are deacent to good against IG because of theire supperior shooting wepons. RailHeads are pure gold. Kroots kick IG ass in cc. Cant realy say much with out reapating what outhers have said. Heck, i could even write this comment out of quotes (almost)

Cottonjaw wrote:Kroot absolutely MURDER guardsmen in Close Combat. Outflank as many kroot as you can, and slam them into him. He won't know what hit him.

Mix that with Hammerheads, lots of fire warriors for 30" range str5 and high fire volume weapons on your suits.

IG actually aren't too bad of a matchup for Tau.

Just take one powerblob and it's byebye kroot.
I wouldn't advice it to use Kroot in close combat.

Sure the dogs are nice, but for the rest, they don't hurt that hard.

Still it can be used to tie up the blob for a turn or two and hopefully leaving them exposed in front of all your guns.

You're nuts. The Kroot win combat with the powerblob every time. 20 Carnivores /w Dogs is an IG killing machine.

The carnivores alone are getting 60 attacks on the charge..... om nom nom tasty guard.

Cottonjaw wrote:You're nuts. The Kroot win combat with the powerblob every time. 20 Carnivores /w Dogs is an IG killing machine.

The carnivores alone are getting 60 attacks on the charge..... om nom nom tasty guard.

If I do the Mathhammer on the Carnivores, that's only 30 hits, 15 wounds and something like ~12 kills. Not to mention the fact that the IG will be striking simultaneously, albeit with less potency. With some chicken puppies, I think it'd really turn the odds in favor of the Kroot. Against a blob of 30 or less, Kroot are almost certain to win every time. But a rare 40 or 50 man blob is much more of a problem, especially with Straken hanging around.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:You're nuts. The Kroot win combat with the powerblob every time. 20 Carnivores /w Dogs is an IG killing machine.

The carnivores alone are getting 60 attacks on the charge..... om nom nom tasty guard.

If I do the Mathhammer on the Carnivores, that's only 30 hits, 15 wounds and something like ~12 kills. Not to mention the fact that the IG will be striking simultaneously, albeit with less potency. With some chicken puppies, I think it'd really turn the odds in favor of the Kroot. Against a blob of 30 or less, Kroot are almost certain to win every time. But a rare 40 or 50 man blob is much more of a problem, especially with Straken hanging around.

Blobs are usually 30 menish with a commissar and hopefully a priest.
Also, good luck with getting every model in base to base contact with the Ig models.

loner wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:You're nuts. The Kroot win combat with the powerblob every time. 20 Carnivores /w Dogs is an IG killing machine.

The carnivores alone are getting 60 attacks on the charge..... om nom nom tasty guard.

If I do the Mathhammer on the Carnivores, that's only 30 hits, 15 wounds and something like ~12 kills. Not to mention the fact that the IG will be striking simultaneously, albeit with less potency. With some chicken puppies, I think it'd really turn the odds in favor of the Kroot. Against a blob of 30 or less, Kroot are almost certain to win every time. But a rare 40 or 50 man blob is much more of a problem, especially with Straken hanging around.

Blobs are usually 30 menish with a commissar and hopefully a priest.
Also, good luck with getting every model in base to base contact with the Ig models.

Regardless of whichever way it swings, it's going to be a fairly drawn out combat of attrition. A charging blob squad with Straken nearby would have my money on them, but otherwise I'm with the chickens.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

loner wrote:

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:You're nuts. The Kroot win combat with the powerblob every time. 20 Carnivores /w Dogs is an IG killing machine.

The carnivores alone are getting 60 attacks on the charge..... om nom nom tasty guard.

If I do the Mathhammer on the Carnivores, that's only 30 hits, 15 wounds and something like ~12 kills. Not to mention the fact that the IG will be striking simultaneously, albeit with less potency. With some chicken puppies, I think it'd really turn the odds in favor of the Kroot. Against a blob of 30 or less, Kroot are almost certain to win every time. But a rare 40 or 50 man blob is much more of a problem, especially with Straken hanging around.

Blobs are usually 30 menish with a commissar and hopefully a priest.
Also, good luck with getting every model in base to base contact with the Ig models.

Regardless of whichever way it swings, it's going to be a fairly drawn out combat of attrition. A charging blob squad with Straken nearby would have my money on them, but otherwise I'm with the chickens.

So far, when I played against Tau, I've always beaten those Kroot blobs.
40 soldiers, a priest and a commissar will win the battle for you.

But let's not stray too far off topic...
Do the Tau have any pinning weapons?
Those can be quite usefull against powerblobs. Just through enough Ld-checks at him and eventually he will fail one or two.

Pulse Carbines are the alternative to Pulse Rifles on Fire Warriors, but I do believe you drop 12 inches of range for an assault 1, Pinning weapon. Not really worth it. Then again, I do believe you're allowed to just take a single Carbine and the rest with Rifles..

If you do try for pinning remember that stubborn only applies to morale checks, not pinning, and Tau have one of the few ways you can impose penalties on a pinning check. Put bookmarks on your rulebook pages for USRs and pinning because a lot of players don't know that.

Raxmei wrote:If you do try for pinning remember that stubborn only applies to morale checks, not pinning, and Tau have one of the few ways you can impose penalties on a pinning check. Put bookmarks on your rulebook pages for USRs and pinning because a lot of players don't know that.

A bit off topic but I was always under the impression that pinning test = morale test.

terranarc wrote:

Raxmei wrote:If you do try for pinning remember that stubborn only applies to morale checks, not pinning, and Tau have one of the few ways you can impose penalties on a pinning check. Put bookmarks on your rulebook pages for USRs and pinning because a lot of players don't know that.

A bit off topic but I was always under the impression that pinning test = morale test.

Which is exactly why I recommended putting bookmarks in the relevent pages. Lots of players get this wrong but are so confident they know how it works they won't ever bother looking it up. Pinning tests are not morale tests. They are simple leadership tests.

as for the pinning weapons....well there are the drones we have in the utility closets....although we basically duct tape brooms on them and have them patrol the base :S we have too many.

There are my pathfinders. (im going to take out 3 of them and replace with rail rifles so i can get some ranged pinning tests.....try and slow down the horde (do correct me if i am wrong but i am on the line of thinking that 3 unsaved wounds to one unit with 3 rail rifles would cause the unit in question to take 3 pinning tests and not just one, can you confirm this for me?)

As for the others all of my FW squads have pulse rifles. I was strongly recommended to forget taking carbines in my unit due to the fact that I need range....that being said I can see the advantage a lucky pulse carbine could have should a enemy squad get close enough.

but apart from that I don't think i have any other pinning weapons.

Hans_Einberg wrote:as for the pinning weapons....well there are the drones we have in the utility closets....although we basically duct tape brooms on them and have them patrol the base :S we have too many.

There are my pathfinders. (im going to take out 3 of them and replace with rail rifles so i can get some ranged pinning tests.....try and slow down the horde (do correct me if i am wrong but i am on the line of thinking that 3 unsaved wounds to one unit with 3 rail rifles would cause the unit in question to take 3 pinning tests and not just one, can you confirm this for me?)

As for the others all of my FW squads have pulse rifles. I was strongly recommended to forget taking carbines in my unit due to the fact that I need range....that being said I can see the advantage a lucky pulse carbine could have should a enemy squad get close enough.

but apart from that I don't think i have any other pinning weapons.

The other one are sniper drone teams. They are relatively cheap, and you can take 3 individual teams in a single HS slot. Plus they can move and shoot, and you get a markerlight in there. The only problem is thats one less heavy support slot you have to fill with railheads. In this case I would say no to the sniper drones.

Also, you are correct in the pulse carbines on Firewarriors. While in this one instance it might be slightly beneficial to have some, Pulse rifles are still good here, and really aren't hurting you.