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ok so i am tired of losing at my lgs i am a space wolf play and my main problems are my lists I DONT KNOW HOW TO BUILD A COMPETITIVE LIST. so Dakka people help me make a 2000 point list i am willing to uses any thing except thunder wolves and people on thunder wolf mounts.


-Bodynox

Well it may help out if you could let us know what you have collection wise and what you've been trying to build.

i have everthing except thunder wolves and i have tried logan wing as we call it, it is logan grimnar and wolf guard , another one where 15 blood claws in a land raider as the focus of the army, an all deep strike and out flank army, and other vereations and tweak of those lists.

OK...

HQ : 300

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + JoWW: 100

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Murderous Hurricane: 100

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Tempest's Wrath + Wolf Tail Talisman: 100

Troops : 930

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155


Heavy Support : 645

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 215

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 215

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 215

Fast Attack : 120

Land Speeder w/ Multimelta: 60

Land Speeder w/ Multimelta: 60




Speeders deep strike to hit enemy armor. Rune Priests chill with the Long Fangs slinging S7 and S8 across the table. The extra Razors are there in case of Dawn of War deployment, in which case the LFs roll on in the Razorbacks and deploy, then run into position into cover. Razors drive around Lascannoning and/or Las-Plasing the hell out of everything. If you're fighting Raider Rush, you've got a bunch of Meltaguns to fart around with.

ok i could try that, keep these list comming because i am not to keen to the razorback spam

imagine that.....lasplas spam space pups, lol. but it works

LOL That would NEVER happen! I would suggest trying to get your hands on Thunderwolves but if not Termies i run in a drop pod are awesome.

Keep in mind it isn't so much the list as the player. And your not going to learn much by having people hand feed you lists. I would suggest making a list and then asking for feedback and the reasons why people make those suggestions.

How about something like this:

Rune Priest, Living Lightning, Jaws of the World Wolf - 100

Wolf Scouts (5), Meltagun - 85
Wolf Guard (10), 7 Combi-Melta, 2 with Terminator Armour and Cyclone Missile Launcher, Razorback - 345
Wolf Guard (5), 2 Combi-Melta, 1 with Terminator Armour and Cyclone Missile Launcher, Razorback - 185

Grey Hunter (5), Meltagun, Rhino - 115
Grey Hunter (5), Meltagun, Rhino - 115
Grey Hunter (5), Meltagun, Rhino - 115
Grey Hunter (5), Meltagun, Rhino - 115
Grey Hunter (5), Meltagun, Rhino - 115

Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 70
Land Speeder, Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 70

Long Fang Pack (5), 4 Missile Launcher, Las/Plas Razorback - 190
Long Fang Pack (5), 4 Missile Launcher, Las/Plas Razorback - 190
Long Fang Pack (5), 4 Missile Launcher, Las/Plas Razorback - 190

Fairly standard competitive space wolves list really. The TDA Wolf Guard join the Long Fangs, other Wolf Guard from the big pack move with the Grey Hunters.
This gives you 5 Rhinos with double-melta, 3 Las/Plas Razorbacks and 2 regular Razorbacks for long range shooting, plus a few Land Speeders as a deep strike threat.
Oh, and 18 Missile Launchers per turn.

Yea try different things. I started out wanted to use Swiftclaw bikers but have now gone thunderwolves/3 drop pods with GH/ 2 squad of longs fangs/1 squad termies. It works and I have A LOT of fun playing them . I may lose sometimes but I give people a run for their money. Sometimes you gotta choose efectiveness over what you think is cool and vise versa.

What are you losing against, that would help to. Tourneys, friendlies, your buddy's fav list.

well Byte it is tourneys

as for trying different thing SwiftLord14 i have and i did use to use swift claw bikers and i know thunder wolver are better but i really dont feel like building thunder wolves

I got rime hounds and they come put together and prepainted and for $2 dollars EACH! I just cut up some bikers legs and used them. But whats the main armies you lose against?

well orks , grey nights , blood angles, and dark eldar

Make sure you bring 3 squads of longfangs with 5 missile launchers each. Then 60 grey hunters with meltaguns in rhinos. Then some wolf guard with combi-plasma with runepriests with living lightning and something else in rhinos.

That should do it.

How about you give us more specific information. Give us your usual list, their lists, and a detailed explanation on how you play against them.

unbeliever87 wrote:How about you give us more specific information. Give us your usual list, their lists, and a detailed explanation on how you play against them.

Good idea.

well my normal list is

wolf priest 145
runic armour
melta bombs
wolf tooth necklace
saga of the hunter

wolf priest 135
runic armour
melta bombs
wolf tooth necklace

10 wolf scouts 240
melta bombs
melta gun 2 plasma pistols

grey hunter 185
mark of the wulfen
power weapon
2 melta guns
rhino 55
dozer blades
extra armour

grey hunter 195
mark of the wulfen
power fist
2 melta guns
rhino 55
dozer blades
extra armour

15 blood claws 380
power weapon
lukas the trickster

4 swift claws bikers 195
melta gun
power fist
attack bike
multi melta
melta bombs

6 long fang 140
5 missile launcher

land raider crusader 275
multi-melta
extra armour

1995/2000

as for there lists i cant really say but i use the blood claws in the land raider with a wolf priest in the middle with the grey hunters in the rhino supporting them on the sides, i out flank the scouts with a wolf priest to take care of tanks, the bikes i use to harass tanks and some heavy armour unints the long fangs you use to hit lighter armour tanks like rhino and razerbacks

It's generally believed that blood claws are inferior to grey hunters in most respects. Same for swift claws. While not as exciting, replacing that landraider and BC and SCB with more grey hunters and long fangs would be more reliable.

I usually run my GH squads like this.

Wolf Guard Pack Leader with wolf claws
9 grey hunters with a melta gun, plasma pistol, and mark of the wulfen. I usually drop pod them but rhinos work if you like them.

The wolf claws add a lot to CC and combined with the mark of the wulfen rending I usually get at least two or three kills with them alone. And plus one more leadership may not sounds a lot but it helps if you lose in CC.

The problem is your list is terrible. If you want more detailed advice, how about putting some more effort into your posts? Give us your friends lists, and explain in DETAIL how you usually deploy against them, how you deal with their various threats, and how/why you are losing each game.

Your list is pretty terrible though. So many superfluous upgrades; Extra Armour + Dozerblades on the Rhinos, Lucas, an extra Wolf Priest for no apparent reason, too many wolf scouts in one squad.
Overcosted Switclaws that don't fit in with the rest of the list.
No long range shooting.
Only 3 vehicles.

unbeliever87 wrote:The problem is your list is terrible. If you want more detailed advice, how about putting some more effort into your posts? Give us your friends lists, and explain in DETAIL how you usually deploy against them, how you deal with their various threats, and how/why you are losing each game.

Your list is pretty terrible though. So many superfluous upgrades; Extra Armour + Dozerblades on the Rhinos, Lucas, an extra Wolf Priest for no apparent reason, too many wolf scouts in one squad.
Overcosted Switclaws that don't fit in with the rest of the list.
No long range shooting.
Only 3 vehicles.

I think what he is saying that is you need to put more thought into the list. Go through and pick and choose. Like "Ok what about my long range? Who has that covered?" Boom long fangs can do that.

"How im gonna deploy and what tactics do my enemies use so i can counter them?"

Asking questions to yourself about your list can really help. And ask people you play against. I play a Blood Angels list a lot and he really let me know what units he was scared of and which ones aren't that good. I've asked Tau, IG, Ultramarines, and Grey Knight players the same thing. Its usually the longs fangs, thunderwolves, or my termies. Let them think that and hit them hard with your Grey Hunters. Works like a charm.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And i'd say drop the swiftclaws for some long fangs. Make one of the Wolf Priest a Rune Priest and make the other a Wolf Lord (not sure where you would want to put him at) or another Rune Priest.

I would split up your scout squads. 2 squads both with melta would be alot more effective than one big one

NuggzTheNinja wrote:OK...

HQ : 300

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + JoWW: 100

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Murderous Hurricane: 100

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Tempest's Wrath + Wolf Tail Talisman: 100

Troops : 930

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155


Heavy Support : 645

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 215

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 215

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 215

Fast Attack : 120

Land Speeder w/ Multimelta: 60

Land Speeder w/ Multimelta: 60




Speeders deep strike to hit enemy armor. Rune Priests chill with the Long Fangs slinging S7 and S8 across the table. The extra Razors are there in case of Dawn of War deployment, in which case the LFs roll on in the Razorbacks and deploy, then run into position into cover. Razors drive around Lascannoning and/or Las-Plasing the hell out of everything. If you're fighting Raider Rush, you've got a bunch of Meltaguns to fart around with.

This is a solid tourney list. You keep it simple and trimmed down for most tourneys. I mix in some plasma in the troop squads. I build anti-MEC lists as they are the most common. Mostly shooty, cause everyone else is assault right now. Lots of plasma/melta/barrages/AP2/AP3. Minimum squad sizes with optimized options. SW is good for that. SW Scouts are the best in the game and wreck back line artillery, don't forget melta bomb multa assault.

btw - Plazorbacks win. You want to win. Spam them.

NuggzTheNinja wrote:OK...

HQ : 300

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + JoWW: 100

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Murderous Hurricane: 100

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Tempest's Wrath + Wolf Tail Talisman: 100

Sorry, but the HQ is illegal. Each RP needs to be equipped differently as well as have different combinations of powers (this part is right).

While spamming is SW strongest characteristic, I'd include a couple of dreads in there as anti-assault deterrents.



Rune Priest w/ Chooser, Living Lightning + JoWW: 110

Rune Priest w/ Living Lightning + Murderous Hurricane: 100

Dreadnought w/Assault Cannon + Heavy Flamer: 115

Dreadnought w/Assault Cannon + Heavy Flamer: 115

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 155

5 Grey Hunters, Flamer w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 150

5 Grey Hunters, Flamer w/ Las-Plas Razorback: 150

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Rhino: 115 (RP here)

5 Grey Hunters, Meltagun w/ Rhino: 115 (RP here)

Land Speeder Typhoon w/Heavy Bolter: 90

Land Speeder Typhoon w/Heavy Bolter: 90

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Razorback: 180

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Razorback: 180

6x Long Fangs, 5x Missile Launchers w/ Razorback: 180

Total - 2000

While you may not have as much firepower as a pure-lazorspam SW list, you've definitely got better anti-infantry. At the same time, it's still really strong in the AT department.

Waring: These type of lists are very, very strong and I wouldn't recommend using them in casual, non-tournament gaming environments....at least not if you want your opponent to ever play you again. But if your gaming group/acquaintances are all competitive gamers, then it's all good.

ok with all that in mind how about this list

rune priest 150
master of runes
liveing lightning
jaws of the world wolf

rune priest 100
liveing lightning
storm caller

wolf scouts 165
melta gun
2 plasma pistols
melta bombs

wolf scouts 165
melta gun
2 plasma pistols
melta bombs

5wolf guard 195
terminatot armour
5wolf claws
heavy lflamer
drpo pod 35

10 grey hunters 185
power weapon
mark of the wulfen
2 melta gun
rhino 55
extra armour
dozer blades

10 grey hunter 185
power weapon
mark of the wulfen
2 melta guns
rhino 55
extra armour
dozer blades

5 grey hunters 110
melta gun
power weapon
mark of the wulfen
razorback 95
las-plas
dozer blades
extra armour

5 grey hunters 110
melta gun
power weapon
mark of the wulfen
razorback 95
las-plas
dozer blades
extra armour

6 long fangs 140
5 missle launchers

6 long fangs 140
5 missle launchers



1980/2000

Why are you putting 20 points of upgrades on a 35 or 75 point tank, and a 50 point upgrade on a Rune Priest who will never need it?

Drop the Dozer Blades and Extra Armor across the board. Forget those two ugrades even exist for the purposes of list building. Also, what are your Wolf Guard going to do? Turn one, they're going to drop in. Then, they're going to disembark. Then, they're ALL going to die. 220 points down the drain.

Your Long Fangs need transports in case of Dawn of War deployment. Nothing sucks more than having to run for TWO turns because your first turn movement failed to get you into position.

5-man squads with Power Weapons are pretty meh, and the 10-man squads should have Power Fists if anything. If you're dead set on using Wolfguard, then drop the Grey Hunters down to 9 men and add a Wolf Guard with Power Fist and Combimelta to each squad. It isn't that expensive and adds a LD boost to a low LD unit. You also want Wolf Standards on the big squads.

bodynox, e-mail poster aldarrion (sp?) for a good SW list run down. Although, a lot of the list advice in this thread is good enough. Overall, your list isn't awful and as Byte said, pretty close to what I've seen at RTTs. Maybe a little wargear heavy (dozer blades, EA, Scout Plas-pistols).

The thing is, it's often you. Here are few things to think about:

I lost 18 games until I got my first win, way back in 4e's beginning. Over the 7 years, I've played SM, Deathwing, Tau, bugs, Eldar, CSM and now DE. Presently, I've got a Venom-Spam/Mech hybrid DE army, that I have tabled more opponents with it than I have with any other, but my win record with it is still nearly 50%, 19-16-3, WLD.

In June, I stomped my way to the top of the weekly league for the first four weeks, and took Best General (2nd place) in the monthly RTT. The list has been the same since my ... oh, 6th or 8th game? Maybe 12th, I forget. The other 30 games have seen virtually no change.

...

And, today, I have just lost my 6th game in a row, having lost all three games in the *last* RTT, and I am losing the ground I've gained in the league due to 3 straight losses there.

I haven't changed the list. I have been making mistakes. Deployment mistakes. Haem + wyche combos at the wrong time. Poorly placed vehicles getting no LoS. Bad target priority. Etc. I've been making mistakes.

Dice:
For a few weeks, I couldn't *fail* a FlickerField save on my skimmers. I'd bought new dice. My shooting? Hit, Pen, enemy fails Cover Save (StormRavens, SMoked LRs, rhinos, etc) and then Wreck or Explode. It was fun. I got dirty looks.

Lately:
Those dice, once hot ... *sigh* ...
Bad 'run' rolls for the wyches. FlickerFields are less than 33% effective.
Shooting? Ravagers and Trueblasters consistently roll at least two misses per salvo.
Pinning checks for wyches are failing nearly 50% for the last three weeks.
H2h? *sigh* Morale dice rolls seem to have switched places with 'to penetrate' rolls.

A lot of opponents are now downing my wyche boats first, meaning the girls get shot up before reaching targets.

It's me. Not my list. It's my opponents getting better, figuring out my list's weaknesses. A little luck thrown in, too.
-----------------------------------
What I've seen/heard noobs do, or players on a losing streak, is that they start radically altering their list, and thus never getting to know and master it, because they change too often.

Get a tweaked/tightened list here and give it a good 6 or 10 games in a row.

I'm sticking with the present list, for the remainder of the league, and maybe next month's RTT ... well, dual Lash+Oblit spam was fun.

The important things you have to get down are:

grey hunters w/ melta in transports
long fangs w/ missile launchers
rune priests w/ living lightning
razorbacks

Just throw a lot of that together and you will have a competitive army.