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I tried a similar build to this the other day and beat a buddy of mine playing Space Wolves (Ironic because I'm used my Space Wolves as stand-ins for the Salamanders), so I thought I would post it and see what people think.

Vulkan - 190
5 Assault Terminators (Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield) - 200
-Land Raider Redeemer (Multi-Melta, Extra Armor) - 265
Dreadnought (Plasma Cannon, Heavy Flamer) - 125
Dreadnought (Plasma Cannon, Heavy Flamer) - 125
10 Tactical Marines (Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Razorback) - 215
10 Tactical Marines (Missile Launcher, Meltagun, Razorback) - 215
10 Tactical Marines (Multi-Melta, Meltagun) - 175
Land Raider (Multi-Melta) - 260
Vindicator - 115
Vindicator - 115
Total 2,000

The third Tactical Squad rides in the Godhammer and the Redeemer is dedicated to the Terminators. Vulkan can choose to ride with either unit, but likely will ride with the Terminators.

The basic idea is for the list to function in three parts. The first part is the Redeemer and the Vindicators who go after tough targets, the second part is the Godhammer and the Dreadnoughts who hit things at range while pushing toward an enemy objective, and the third part is the Tactical Squads who Combat Squad and leave the Missiles on objectives and the Razorbacks offer up firepower wherever it's necessary. I originally ran the list with Rhinos instead of Razorbacks but I think that was a mistake. The Combat Squads make for more Kill Points in the list, but 15 at 2,000 points is not terrible by any means. Most of my Space Wolves lists are 18+.

My initial thoughts on this list are that the Vindicators might be a bit redundant, and Auto-Las Predators might be better in their place in order to increase ranged firepower. Either that, or the Dreadnoughts should be made into Riflemans, but since I'm lacking Power Fists in the Tactical Squads I really think the Counter-Assault they bring to the list in their current configuration is invaluable. If I change to Auto/Las Preds in the list though I will need to skim 10 points somewhere and I'm not sure what I would ditch.

The other option I had considered was dropping one Vindicator for a Dakka Pred, then replacing the other with a pair of MM/HF Speeders, which would be 5 points less than the current setup. It would have more fast Melta and a single extra Kill Point, but it might be a better all-around configuration.

Thoughts?

2 Land raiders now that's gonna tear everything your opponent has up. Might I recommend a techmarine inside one of the Raiders, this tactic has got me far. A land raider is so hard to pierce that when something happens he fixes it from the inside.

With Vuklan, I'd pod in those Dreads with HF/MM. Cause early distraction with those guys so you can assault with the Termies from the LR. I'd take at leas one (if not both) of the LRs as LRCs instead.

My only feeling on this is that you just are not getting your moneys worth out of Vulcan.

I think you need more meltas. (speeders would be nice platform for that)

Yup. More flamers and more melta.

wtwlf123 wrote:With Vuklan, I'd pod in those Dreads with HF/MM. Cause early distraction with those guys so you can assault with the Termies from the LR. I'd take at leas one (if not both) of the LRs as LRCs instead.

I was trying to fit this in the dual Raider build, but I could not do it without swapping a Tactical Squad for Scouts. That might be a possibility but I'll have to play test it. Not only would I have to buy pods for the Dreads, I'd have to buy a third one for the Tactical Squad in the Land Raider to get both on turn 1. It would add at least 2 Kill Points to the list.....

I think I might try adding the Speeders and see what it looks like, then go from there.

People will potentially disagree with me on this but I am adamant that vindicators are firmly in the same place as whirlwinds, somewhere in the back closet never to be used. They are not good enough. With a Vulcan list your points are better spent on options already mentioned.

I like it! I totally forget that Land Raiders can carry other units as well. I like how you're going to use the Godhammer to get that tac squad up to objectives. Definitely will last longer than a rhino. I also like the use of Razorbacks and combat squads. I sort of do the same thing except with Plasma Cannons instead of ML.

I think it is pretty good, though i agree with some of the others about the vindicators and the general lack of vulkan buffed units (though, honestly, he is so cheap that even if he only buffs the termies he is worth it). I'm also not crazy about the tacs in a land raider.

I'd personally try something like this:

Vulkan - 190

Lib, null zone / whatever - 100

10 assault terminators - 400

10 man tac squad, melta, rhino, missile, combi-melta - 220
10 man tac squad, melta, rhino, missile, combi-melta - 220
10 man tac squad, melta, rhino, missile, combi-melta - 220

Attack Bike, MM - 50
Attack Bike, MM - 50
Attack Bike, MM - 50

Redeemer, MM - 250
Redeemer, MM - 250

2000

I'm not sure it's a better list persay, but i think it might be a better vulkan list, if that makes sense.

The attack bikes can zoom up and melta things (24" melta range wth move+fire FTW), or hide behind stuff until its time to pounch. you could also use landspeeders with MMs if you drop the tac combi meltas, as i think it is sort of a toss up between the two.

Land raiders, termies, vulkan and the lib move up and do what they do they do best. The Tacs split up in missile and meltarhino halves, and act as fire support and objective holders and objective taking melta bunkers respectively.

Anyway, thats what i'd do.

Black Rage wrote:People will potentially disagree with me on this but I am adamant that vindicators are firmly in the same place as whirlwinds, somewhere in the back closet never to be used. They are not good enough. With a Vulcan list your points are better spent on options already mentioned.

Agree on this. Any number on the vehicle damage chart makes the Vindicator useless. Shaken? Now it's just a glorified Rhino. Stunned? Now it's an immobile Rhino. Weapon Destroyed? Rhino again. Immobilized? Now it can't pivot and its gun can't shoot for crap when it can't pivot. Destroyed? That's self-explanatory.

It's ok. I don't really think the Dreadnoughts and 2nd Land Raider add a lot in this case. I think the list would be better if you could fit 5 more Terminators.

I actually think that, even if of course they aren't the best vehicle available, Vindicators used in couple are a very good setup.

They fit with the Salamanders playstyle working well at close range, excpecially if you'll allready fields 2 AV14 vehicles.

Besides I don't like AP2 blasts on Dreads in a Vulkan setup.

Even with these 4 AV13+ vehicles you still need to fix the usual problems in a vulkan list.

The Long Range fire support and/or one or more effective "distractions" that allow your slow TH/SS+meltas comin' safely/fastly in range.

Rifle Dreads would sounds good but this will ask you a complete re-touch of the list.

Keeping yours 2 Vindi I will consider somthing like this:

HQ - Vulkan. 190
EL - 5x Assault Terminators - TH/SS - LRC+MM. 460
EL - 10x Sternguard Veterans - 6x Combi-meltas - Drop Pod. 315
TR - 10x Tactical Marines - Combi-flamer - Flamer - ML - Rhino. 215
TR - 10x Tactical Marines - Flamer - ML. 170
FA - Land Speeder - HF - MM. 70
FA - Land Speeder - HF - MM. 70
HV - LRC+MM. 260
HV - Vindicator w/Siege Shield. 125
HV - Vindicator w/Siege Shield. 125

Obviously the Sternguards will split once landed and start hitting the highest armors availables.
3 combi-meltas in each team.

Both the Tactical sq.s will split also, leaving the 2 MLs-units in cover at your table edge, rifleing enemy transports.

Obviously half of the second Tactical sq. will use the second LRC.

In kiil points games, having a Rhino, you'll can group the Tactical reducing the number of kill points.

LRC instead LRR because you'll can move 12" and still fire the Hurricanes Bolters + the MM or the Assault Cannon each turn.

SickSix wrote:My only feeling on this is that you just are not getting your moneys worth out of Vulcan.

I think you need more meltas. (speeders would be nice platform for that)

+1 to this. Ideally, you want as many Flamer and Melta weapons as possible. HF/MM Landspeeders are a MUST HAVE in any Vulkan list.

Now after going over your second list, it is a bit of an improvement. Some will disagree, but I'm not a fan of running Land Raiders in games 2000 points or less, let alone 2 of them. That's 25% of your list dedicated to 2 vehicles, which in theory can be killed by a single Meltagun. Now I know that it's important to have them for Terminators, I really do, but just as long as you understand the risk in allocating so many points into a single vehicle, and are prepared with contingencies, then feel free to use whatever you want.

On the subject of contingencies, I think your Vindicators would be well used here. Should your LR get disabled, the responsibility of dealing with units of high model volume or high Armor Saves will be put squarely on them. If your Terminator's get stranded due to your LR being destroyed, they'll need the fire power to support their journey to their best/closest target. Having the heavy firepower from a Vindicator will certainly do that.

You'll also be wanting to get transports for the Marines as well. If going by List #2, I'm guessing you plan to have one in the 2nd LR, which is fine. However, now you have 2 Squads that are legging it out, and in Objective games, that can be problematic. If you can't afford a Razorback, get a Rhino. Otherwise, a Razorback, IMHO, would suit you best. Combat Squad the units, and have the Heavy Weapon sit back, while the Sgt and Meltagun push forward to another objective. This has been the best way to use Tact Squads in All-Comer games, in my experiences.

Otherwise, the rest of the list looks pretty good.

This thread has given me quite a lot to think about. I definitely agree that I need more melta/flamer in the list, but I also need to keep ranged firepower up. In a dual Land Raider list this is difficult due to point restrictions, so I either need to ditch one Land Raider and go for a more standard Vulkan list, or something else has to give. I'm going to ponder some of this and see what I come up with.