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Well, I've given up playing Warhammer Fantasy, not because of some GW protest, but because I came to the conclusion that after x amount of games, it's not really up to much. The other day I won a game simply because I hold two 6's to get a spell off, which destroyed a unit, and panicked three others into fleeing the board. Other games I've lost because of an uber -powerful unit, or a jammy spell cast. Where's the skill?

I've played at tournaments and against a wide variety of opponents and have experimented with all sorts of army set ups from friendly play to super beardy. But depressingly, games seem to follow the same pattern. Maybe the meta game is to blame.

Anybody else feel the same? Is 40k worth getting into? I've only ever played 1 or 2 games in 20 years. Will I be just as disillusioned with 40k as I am with fantasy?

Anybody recommened any other games systems, preferably one where skill is a big factor?

Thanks.

It's definitely worth it to get into 40k.

Do what I do and play 5th ed!

40k is anyones game, the characters are balanced with cost and most codexs are on par with one another. sure one army might be better at close combat then another but usually the other army has a strength as that is a little better than the next. much more flexibility.

If you want to play a game where skill is undeniably the most important factor, I'd look into Warmachine/Hordes. The game is ridiculously dependent on tactics, finding synergies between your units, and is not at ALL forgiving when you make mistakes. Virtually every unit has its own special ability, if not several. You have a wide variety of options for pretty much everything on the table, instead of just move/shoot/assault. Positioning on the table is crucial. It's really hard to explain just how tactically intense of a game it is, honestly. Give it a look... I switched to it after 10 years of 40k and have never once looked back. (Also, it's cheaper).

***Edit***
Here's a link to a thread comparing WM/H to 40k you might find worth reading.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/376392.page

I'd second getting into wm/h over 40k, but if it's style of whfb that you like take a peek at Kings of War first and foremost. It may not end up being your cup of tea but it's free and all your gw models are cross comparable.

WHFB is just plain tedious. I sold a 2500 point painted beastman army for $200 just to get it out of my house...and make room for steel legion.

I was a tomb king fantatic, then they got nerfed. Then I realized that all fantasy is revolved around magic, not tactics. Almost every single fantasy player in the local area has more than one army and not a single on is painted. I spend hours and hours painting and modeling, then have to play against 10,000 unpainted rats! No thanks :(

@wanax the whole unpainted thing makes me depressed as well. I've got a job and other things to do with my life, but I still find time to paint my models to a good standard.

@ Belerephon Thanks for the link. So warmachine has the better rules, but GW the better plastics...damn their eyes!

I'm told that Warmachine has more tactical gameplay, whereas Games Workshop's games are more based off of army composition.

Yeah, unfortunately WFB is becoming almost a chore to play for me as well.. The newest rules made it a lot less fun. 7th had broken unfair crap too but at least all the unit types had a PURPOSE. Steadfast in one fell swoop made half of the unit types basically useless

Yay I deploy my big infantry blocks vs your infantry blocks.. We shoot magic and use warmachines. Thats basically the competitive scene

Warmachine is basically about getting off combo moves, like in a video game.

40k is great when played for fun and with friends, but tournaments do tend to fill up with spammy netlists, that turn things into rock, paper, scissor.

I used to play back when, and tried to get back into it with the latest edition.

Then i sold the book, armies and similar because i was fallign asleep trying to play it. It's mindmeltingly dull and frustrating to me.

I enjoy 40K, though i would like the built in bias reset.

I'm also getting into Warmachine

Same here. Stopped playing - sold of my DE and have kept my ogres if I ever want to play again. Despite all my whining about how I hate WM models I final have bought some Everblight. May even try HOTT but done with WHFB for the time being (don't think that much of 40k anymore either).

I just started Fantasy, actually. It doesn't seem dull at all.

Sold mine due to the Monsters and Big units gameplay they are obviously aiming for. It was more expensive to get a decent sized Fantasy army together anyways, but with the monsters, and large blocks becoming the norm, it was getting silly.

Just didn't feel it held a good value for my cash anymore. So reploughed money into 40K and Infinity for the time being.

Rules wise it wasn't much as an issue, although we only managed three battles of 8th before we decided to drop it, so no idea if that would have eventually proved a factor.

Magic did seem kinda over the top from the battles we had, and I was the Dark Elf player.

Monsters and big units? Well thats half right anyhow.. Monsters pretty much suck unless they got a ward save of sometype (Hydras, HPA) or pump out 80 hits a turn like salamanders

Basically its My big unit vs your big unit.. No flanking, no maneuvering anymore. Ive played people who claim its still tactical in the movement phase.. Then they play my skaven and I let them flank charge me and it still doesnt matter cause of steadfast.. Or no one even brings cav anymore so there are very few flank charges to begin with

Infantry-hammer ahoy!

I gave up WHFB in 2nd edition because of the way games depended on a few magicians, heroes or an "I Win" card, rather than tactical play.

I've heard that it got better in later editions but I had my ACW, my Ancients, Battletech and so on to keep me rolling.

rdlb wrote:Warmachine is basically about getting off combo moves, like in a video game.

That's actually not too far off. A lot of the time, I see it compared to Magic in that regard, but I honestly think Marvel vs. Capcom would be a better comparison.

Of course, it's not ALL about combos. Warmahordes has shorter ranges than GW games, so being able to accurately gauge distances is FAR more important in Privateer's system. The fact that models activate individually can also make it more difficult to grasp initially, as order of activation is incredibly important, either to build synergy in armies like Trollbloods or Protectorate, or just to make sure that your fully-loaded Warjack has a clear charge lane to the opponent's warnoun.

I don't actively despise the 8th edition rules, but 6th and 7th were so much better. It seems like now it's "Whoever hits the juiciest target with their cannon/big spell wins". I play Skaven and a lot of the time it seems like if I get the Dreaded 13th cast, and hit something with a WLC, I win.

Or I get Foot-of-Gork'd to death and lose.

I wouldn't recommend 40K if only because in my eternal cynicism, I'm sure GW will muck up 6th edition, and even if they don't, I hope you like spending in the neighborhood of $600 USD/375 GBP for a full army.

My experience with Warmahordes is fairly limited, but I can second that it's quite tactical, and proper use of combos, special skills, and activating the right units in the right order are key to winning.

I've played since 2000 and I'll likely play another 11 years. Then again I play mostly against my wife so if we don't like how something plays then we just house rule it to fit our style.


I think that any game can get stale after a while. Fantasy is much different than it was 2 editions ago, and this will likely be the case 2 editions from now. Right now magic plays a major role. That may change next edition.

40k is just point and shoot "Hey look my gun is bigger I win".

Then again my distaste for 40k mostly comes from the amount of young people who are too immature for my taste and I've noticed that many more 40k armies are bare plastic than fantasy ones.

I loved 6th edition fantasy, in fact i loved it more than 40k. When i decided to get back into the hobby last year i gave both the rulebooks a flick through, 40k seemed great but fantasy was awful, we are supposed to roll a charge now? Also the fact the old hard hitting cavalry and harassing fast cavalry of sixth simply seemed redundant, i cant see why anyone would take a chariot in 8th edition either.

I've given up on Warhammer "See Who Can Get Off Thier Lvl 6 Spell First" until 9th ed.

There isn't one redeeming thing about this blatent whoring out of trying to sell infantry box sets. If it doesn't have 30+ models in it, it should stay at home.

Get your fantasy models and play Kings of War is my suggestion here

Oddly enough Ive been playing rules nearly identical to KoW for years because Fantasy is not only getting ridiculous, it's far too complicated

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Well, I've given up playing Warhammer Fantasy, not because of some GW protest, but because I came to the conclusion that after x amount of games, it's not really up to much. The other day I won a game simply because I hold two 6's to get a spell off, which destroyed a unit, and panicked three others into fleeing the board. Other games I've lost because of an uber -powerful unit, or a jammy spell cast. Where's the skill?

I've played at tournaments and against a wide variety of opponents and have experimented with all sorts of army set ups from friendly play to super beardy. But depressingly, games seem to follow the same pattern. Maybe the meta game is to blame.

Anybody else feel the same? Is 40k worth getting into? I've only ever played 1 or 2 games in 20 years. Will I be just as disillusioned with 40k as I am with fantasy?

Anybody recommened any other games systems, preferably one where skill is a big factor?

Thanks.

If you are interested in historical gaming, I would recommend Flames of War. The rules are much easier to learn and less confusing than GW rules, but the game is much more tactical than Fantasy or 40k. The game is also a lot more balanced than GW games, as there are no overpowered armies (for example, taking all Tigers is by no means an easy win, they cost so much that the enemy will outnumber you greatly and would likely be able to destroy them in assault), except if you play armies from Midwar against Early or Late, or any other mix up. I have been playing it only a few months and I like it much more than 40k for the rules and game play, but still like 40k for the modeling and painting more than FoW.

If tactical gameplay is your biggest attraction I think you'll find it hard to beat Warmachine/Hordes.

Privateer Press really revitalized miniatures wargaming for me. I was basically in the 'why am I bothering with GW's ProCheckers game?' until I discovered PP.

Belerephon wrote:If you want to play a game where skill is undeniably the most important factor, I'd look into chess

But that game has balance issues...

White always gets the first turn


*begin 'white is so OP, omg! ' rant *

Play Warmahordes or Malifaux... games where skill and strategy is everything...

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:Well, I've given up playing Warhammer Fantasy, not because of some GW protest, but because I came to the conclusion that after x amount of games, it's not really up to much. The other day I won a game simply because I hold two 6's to get a spell off, which destroyed a unit, and panicked three others into fleeing the board. Other games I've lost because of an uber -powerful unit, or a jammy spell cast. Where's the skill?

I've played at tournaments and against a wide variety of opponents and have experimented with all sorts of army set ups from friendly play to super beardy. But depressingly, games seem to follow the same pattern. Maybe the meta game is to blame.

Anybody else feel the same? Is 40k worth getting into? I've only ever played 1 or 2 games in 20 years. Will I be just as disillusioned with 40k as I am with fantasy?

Anybody recommened any other games systems, preferably one where skill is a big factor?

Thanks.

No description of what you were playing, what your opponent was playing, what spell was cast or what units fled.

Random dice are random.

Sounds like Warhammer just isn't the game for you.

I've also stopped for the same reasons. It's not as fun as it was or 40k is (and I hated 4th edition 40k)

Warmahordes is mtg with minatures. Get your uber combo off first and win, if not you're open to counterattack. Loose your general = autoloose? WTF??!@¢BBQ^∑! Power cree is also a big issue as is cost.

Malifaux looks interesting but it would mean a larger investment. I think I'll stick to 40k.