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With the rumors of a Chaos codex comming out, I just figured the Chaotic based fluff behind Draigo being allowed to exist as he has in the Eye... he is Abby's replacement and this is all a Grand scheme of Tzeenchian proportions in order to corrupt the 'incorruptable".

Thinkl about it, it makes more sense then him running around snapping his fingers and destroying everything.

His actual story makes a whole lot more sense that that. Stupidly Mary-sue, but there's a rational explanation as well.

Yeah....like Matt Ward wanted to introduce Superman into 40k.

Or Emperor's long lost son, or something...

No, not really.

Short leash here guys...

Brother Coa wrote:Yeah....like Matt Ward wanted to introduce Superman into 40k.

Or Emperor's long lost son, or something...

You do realize that his tale is incredibly tragic, as nothing at all that he does in the warp has any lasting impact whatsoever? In that way he personifies the Grey Knights' worst fear; that no matter what they do, they might not be able to win. How that is mary-sueish and "bad fluff" is beyond me.

its Mary sue, but not in the bad way.

He is kinda supposed to be this tragic hero who is basically locked in a struggle he can't win, but can't be defeated either.

Where does it say he cant be defeated? i get the inevtiable loss part but the undefeatble part eludes me im afraid

The GK codex says this,

"yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, then nor could Draigo win any meaningful victory"

that and the fact he burned down the homes of 2 chaos gods and is still alive suggests he can't be defeated.

He did not burn down the homes of two Chaos Gods. He burned down a section of Nurgle's Garden, and the Inevitable City.

iproxtaco wrote:He did not burn down the homes of two Chaos Gods. He burned down a section of Nurgle's Garden, and the Inevitable City.

That's like one man burn down a part of Moscow and raise Washington D.C.

And he killed the Lord of Change by burring him under a pile of ruble. And he just kicked the door that war right of him with his feet.
And after that he raised Inevitable City.

No, it isn't. Both are near instantly re-built, making his victories pointless and hollow. That's the balancing factor.

AlmightyWalrus wrote: How that is mary-sueish and "bad fluff" is beyond me.

Mary-sue: He can do incredible things with almost no effort at all... he make Chaos Gods look like Traveling Cirkus...

"bad fluff": even Chaos Gods can't defeat them and that is = Emperor is already won, he just need to die...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

iproxtaco wrote:No, it isn't. Both near instantly re-built, making his victories pointless and hollow. That's the balancing factor.

And I am not mistaken, he can raise them again.
It's a tide with 1 Grey Knight, how fortunate for Chaos that all 999 Grey Knights can't go into the Warp...

Both are near instantly re-built, making his victories pointless and hollow. That's the balancing factor.

I hate it. Draigo's story is the worse GW related fiction that I have read.

Problem, Chaos Gods?

Borhter Coa wrote:even Chaos Gods can't defeat them and that is

Wrong. It does not say that the Chaos Gods themselves can't defeat Draigo. The Meandering champions of the Gods can't defeat him, the Gods are playing with him, or they don't even care that he exists.

iproxtaco wrote:

Borhter Coa wrote:even Chaos Gods can't defeat them and that is

Wrong. It does not say that the Chaos Gods themselves can't defeat Draigo. The Meandering champions of the Gods can't defeat him, the Gods are playing with him, or they don't even care that he exists.

"...yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, ..."

Dark Gods = Chaos Gods. Matt Ward said it himself.
If they cannot kick him out of their own realm then they are just bunch of weaklings.

Brother Coa wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote: How that is mary-sueish and "bad fluff" is beyond me.

Mary-sue: He can do incredible things with almost no effort at all... he make Chaos Gods look like Traveling Circus

Yeah...that's not actually what "mary sue" means.

A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional. While the label "Mary Sue" itself originates from a parody of this type of character, most characters labeled "Mary Sues" by readers are not intended by authors as such. Male Mary Sues are often dubbed "Gary Stu", "Larry Stu", "Marty Stu", or similar names.

While the term is generally limited to fan-created characters, and its most common usage today occurs within the fan fiction community or in reference to fan fiction, original characters in role-playing games or literary canon are also sometimes criticized as being "Mary Sues" or "canon Sues" if they dominate the spotlight or are too unrealistic or unlikely in other ways. One example of this criticism is Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation.

I can't think of any wish-fulfillment fantasy going on when your "Mary Sue" is stuck in a Sisyphusian punishment(he can destroy all he wants, but it gets rebuilt. He can kill as many Daemons as he wants--they get brought back by the Ruinous Powers. He's never going to get back to Titan, he's stuck permanently in the Warp aside from when he can manage to get out during a major Daemonic incursion).
Draigo has, for all intents and purposes, become the very thing he fought. He is subject to all the rules that Daemons have to abide by.

"bad fluff": even Chaos Gods can't defeat them and that is = Emperor is already won, he just need to die...

The Chaos Gods aren't trying to kill him. Why would they, he's trapped in their realm and his despair provides endless amusement.

iproxtaco wrote:No, it isn't. Both near instantly re-built, making his victories pointless and hollow. That's the balancing factor.

And I am not mistaken, he can raise them again.

I'm guessing you mean "raze", but I can never tell because you don't ever seem to make much of an effort to make sure you're using the correct terms in your statements. He can "raze" everything he wants, it's right back the way it started when he turns his back on it.

It's a tide with 1 Grey Knight, how fortunate for Chaos that all 999 Grey Knights can't go into the Warp...

A "tie" with one Grey Knight implies that the Ruinous Powers are actually trying to do anything. Why should they?
He's killing followers, who can be replaced in the blink of an eye.
He's destroying what amounts to property--which they rebuild with a mere thought.

Yeah, I know, that's been quoted, Coa. A few things. Firstly, it does not say that the entity that is Khorne, or Tzeentch has tried and failed to kill Dragio, it means that their champions have failed. Dark Gods is often used to describe their servants. Secondly, one sentence that says one thing does not automatically refute two pages of explanation on how Draigo has faced CHAMPIONS of the Gods, but his victories are hollow. He isn't some almighty being wtfdestroying the realm of Chaos, he's a play-thing of the Gods, each enemy he kills is reborn, each city he destroys is re-built.

Kanluwen wrote:

And I am not mistaken, he can raise them again.

I'm guessing you mean "raze", but I can never tell because you don't ever seem to make much of an effort to make sure you're using the correct terms in your statements.

Is that really neccesary?

I am shocked, I cannot go against Black Library at all....

And I do mean "raze", sorry I forgot from time to time what letter to use...

But if Draigo can do that, than any other hero of the Imperium can do that, and it is stated in the codex that it is a tie even with dark gods.

"yet if the Dark Gods could not vanquish Draigo, then nor could Draigo win any meaningful victory"

They can't get him out of the warp, he can't defeat them because they are regenerating and rebuilding. And if Draigo alone can do that then Emperor can kill them without a problem once his soul left his body and enter's Warp.

This whole picture makes Ruinous Powers to look weaker then the Imperium - at least to me...

A few things. Firstly, it does not say that the entity that is Khorne, or Tzeentch has tried and failed to kill Dragio, it means that their champions have failed. Dark Gods is often used to describe their servants. Secondly, one sentence that says one thing does not automatically refute two pages of explanation on how Draigo has faced CHAMPIONS of the Gods, but his victories are hollow. He isn't some almighty being wtfdestroying the realm of Chaos, he's a play-thing of the Gods, each enemy he kills is reborn, each city he destroys is re-built.

iproxtaco wrote:Dark Gods is often used to describe their servants.

That would mean that some Daemon is harvesting all power for himself, and makes everyone worship him. Chaos Gods woudn't like that at all. I heard they killed Daemons earlier because of that.

Secondly, one sentence that says one thing does not automatically refute two pages of explanation on how Draigo has faced CHAMPIONS of the Gods, but his victories are hollow. He isn't some almighty being wtfdestroying the realm of Chaos, he's a play-thing of the Gods, each enemy he kills is reborn, each city he destroys is re-built.

That just means that he cannot killed them for real no matter how hard he tried. But the fact that he killed CHAMPIONS of the Chaos Gods xxxxxx times, in Warp realm, shows me something...
That Matt Ward is writing a really bad fluff....

Brother Coa wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Dark Gods is often used to describe their servants.

That would mean that some Daemon is harvesting all power for himself, and makes everyone worship him. Chaos Gods woudn't like that at all. I heard they killed Daemons earlier because of that.

Nope. It is used to refer to their servants sometimes, a bunch of Bloodletters for example, because they are part of their master.

Secondly, one sentence that says one thing does not automatically refute two pages of explanation on how Draigo has faced CHAMPIONS of the Gods, but his victories are hollow. He isn't some almighty being wtfdestroying the realm of Chaos, he's a play-thing of the Gods, each enemy he kills is reborn, each city he destroys is re-built.

That just means that he cannot killed them for real no matter how hard he tried.

That's the point.

But the fact that he killed CHAMPIONS of the Chaos Gods xxxxxx times, in Warp realm, shows me something...
That Matt Ward is writing a really bad fluff....

And enter the part that I dislike.

All right guys, we all have a wonderful chat but I must go to sleep...

To finish this I will post a movie that I made in honor of Draigo... Please fell free to swear me and to make fun of my voice ( i did choice for Chaos forces here... ). Enjoy.

Haters gonna hate.
And in this instance Coa is the hater.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Yeah....like Matt Ward wanted to introduce Superman into 40k.

Or Emperor's long lost son, or something...

You do realize that his tale is incredibly tragic, as nothing at all that he does in the warp has any lasting impact whatsoever? In that way he personifies the Grey Knights' worst fear; that no matter what they do, they might not be able to win. How that is mary-sueish and "bad fluff" is beyond me.

It's "Bad fluff" because he can live in the warp. Because he can do things that are completely contradicted by all other existing fluff.
Oh yeah, I didn't know there was oxygen in the warp. Plus I'm sure Draigo has an easy time finding food and water as well as somehow getting out of that armor to take a sh** eh?
And yeah, carving names into the hearts of demons, yep thats perfectly do-able considering that demons are not made of material stuff. Yep.
Oh and burning nurgle's garden, yeah thats totally easy considering much "demonic filth" must be there. You know how willpower doesn't save you from syphilis and brain tumors? Apply that here.
Mary sue? Maybe. Bad fluff? That's a euphemism.
If you've just joined 40k and have never read any of the fluff except for what the crap ward wrote, you might not not consider it bad fluff. Otherwise... well there really isn't an otherwise.

terranarc wrote:Plus I'm sure Draigo has an easy time finding food and water as well as somehow getting out of that armor to take a sh** eh?

To be fair, Astartes armour does incorporate a Waste Recycler. Nom nom nom.

Kanluwen wrote:
I can't think of any wish-fulfillment fantasy going on when your "Mary Sue" is stuck in a Sisyphusian punishment(he can destroy all he wants, but it gets rebuilt. He can kill as many Daemons as he wants--they get brought back by the Ruinous Powers. He's never going to get back to Titan, he's stuck permanently in the Warp aside from when he can manage to get out during a major Daemonic incursion).

I'm not disagreeing, per se, but when he does escape the Warp, his contributions do matter, so this Sisyphus has a loop-hole.

Lynata wrote:

terranarc wrote:Plus I'm sure Draigo has an easy time finding food and water as well as somehow getting out of that armor to take a sh** eh?

To be fair, Astartes armour does incorporate a Waste Recycler. Nom nom nom.

So draigo really is full of then

But it really is terrible fluff, with matt ward writing however, it's hardly suprising, i'm more suprised he didn't beat an avatar to death