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Does anybody no anything about the ships used to transport prisoners to penal colonies? Are they old, rusting trawler types, or more 'modern' designs. Also, would it be possible for the prisoners to mutiny and take over the ship, or is there protocols in place such as self-destruct mode or something? Any info would be appreciated.

There's not a lot of info on that topic, but I would presume that depending on the criminal in question they're either part of the Navy or a civilian vessel chartered by the sector government. The latter would have a bigger chance of being the "old rusty" type, though given the age of Naval ships in 40k, this could apply to every vessel - and prison ships are likely one of the first whose maintenance and repair would show signs of neglect.

Some licensed products deal with the topic - such as FFG's 40k RPG introductory adventure Broken Chains (free to download here) - but as with all licensed products this isn't necessarily something that GW themselves would regard as canon. Still, that PDF might be something you're looking for, as it should provide ample inspiration.

Seeing as it takes alot of force to get onto most bridges of large ships (navigators are rare so are protected), it would be very hard for mutinies to occur.

If you extrapolate what happens today with prisons and then add in the fact that the IoM has no need to deal with 'human rights' with prisoners it can be assumed that prisoners are shackled and locked up.

Like most prisons a lock off system would be in place so that sections of the ship can be completely sealed, stopping any escapes (it can be assumed that most large vessels would have lock down procedures to deal with loss of pressure in case of damage).

What are these prisoners you speak of? Any crime against the Imperium is solved with a blot shell to the back of the head.

Although a funny statement, there is a massive amount of fluff about penal colonies and their use to the IoM.

a purpose built prison ship probably has the prisoners completely seperated from the crew and bridge. as in there are no doors connecting the 2 areas so its impossable for a mutiny to occur.

the ship then docks and the prisoners are shuffled off.


Penal worlds are usually sources of cheap labor. Penal battalions are common too(although these are limited to IG criminals and normally for the minor things like stealing or equipment abuse. everything else is a death sentance)

Yes Fairfeldia that is correct. although that was an atmospheric transport from site to site on Ancreon Sextus.

I would imagine that most imperial vessels are relatively well maintained due to the fact that they believe in the machine spirit of technology, Its one thing to neglect an inanimate object but another thing entirely to neglect a sacred relic.

Not to mention that even if a rebellion did occur among the prisoners I very much doubt they would have the skilled personel needed to pilot a huge spacegoing vessel so it wouldn't do them much good.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:I would imagine that most imperial vessels are relatively well maintained due to the fact that they believe in the machine spirit of technology, Its one thing to neglect an inanimate object but another thing entirely to neglect a sacred relic.

Depends on where you look, really - Imperial spaceships are vast, and whilst the important parts are usually very well maintained (for the reason you've given), there's just lots of space that receives little attention, if any. Like corridors and crew quarters, the lower levels of the ship, etc. Usually this isn't that much of a problem, but over the millennia(!) this can lead to entire sections of a ship becoming abandoned or "cursed", breeding their very own mutant population of mad crewmen that have simply vanished from their post some day during warp transit etc.

Ugly Green Trog wrote:Not to mention that even if a rebellion did occur among the prisoners I very much doubt they would have the skilled personel needed to pilot a huge spacegoing vessel so it wouldn't do them much good.

Very true - they could of course try to take hostages, but overcoming all those troops and automated defenses, gun servitors, etc is not an easy task indeed. Wit will play an important role though, as both sides start to attempt turning the ship's mechanisms against each other ... airlocks being vented, gas blown into rooms, lights going out, temparatures rising to boiling heat or below zero, ...

Grey Templar wrote:

Penal worlds are usually sources of cheap labor. Penal battalions are common too(although these are limited to IG criminals and normally for the minor things like stealing or equipment abuse. everything else is a death sentance)

Minor abuses are flogging, worse than that but not down right heretical behavior is penal legion, and heretical behavior is death. Such as cowardice and things described in the uplifitng premier.

Prison riots and revolts occur even in the most brutal, oppressive prisons, regardless of the leeway given the prisoners. And it seems like the transportation period is the point at which you would be most vulnerable for an escape attempt or a riot. While that would make the guards more alert, it would also be the time that would be the most opportune. If you did decide to start a revolt or escape, then the problems you would have in taking over the ship would be:

1. Blast doors. In the event of depressurization, most ships in the Imperium can compartmentalize themselves, and there is no reason to assume prison transports would be any different.

2. Guards. As I already said, they were prepped for this since this was the most likely time for it to occur.

3. The navigator. How are you going to get to him/her? And do you have someone who can kill or subvert the navigator without being instantly slain by that nasty marble rolling around in their forehead? (Remember, eye contact with their third eye causes instant, horrible death.)

4. The ship itself. Ships do not like having their navigators replaced (see Blood Reaver, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden) and that could be an issue. Assuming it isn't, you do need a skeleton crew to pilot the ship even if you did replace the navigator. How are your rioters going to solve that?

Things you would NOT probably have to worry about:

1. Self destruct. This seems to be a silly sci-fi trope with no basis in reality that I know of. Planes, trains, tanks, space shuttles, and everything in-between, I don't know of a single vehicle ever built by mankind that has a button intentionally designed to cause the total destruction of the vehicle. Now, the prison ship, like many vehicles, might have systems which could be subverted or sabatoged which would result in the ship's destruction, but that can always be counteracted.

2. Most systems other than navigation. As seen in the Night Lords novels, much of a ship's systems run automatically or as a result of servitor maintenance. None of that is going to stop because the ship got hijacked.


So what's the most plausible scenario? As I see it, there's too many variables to make it feasible for a group of prisoners to riot, neutralize the guards, secure the ship, and then take it over in working condition. The plan would derail at some juncture. What is far MORE feasible is for a group of prisoners to begin such a plan. If they can bring the riot to the level of a large scale shootout, the ship would need to drop out of the Warp. Then, with the crew off balance (and at least part of the ship out of commission) the allies that the prisoners had made this plan with in advance show up to capture the ship, a prospect made much easier by the chaos on board. The then 'rescued' prisoners can either destroy the prison ship or just leave it drifting in space.

The way I would see it as working is:

Commander on-board the ship: 'There's been a riot? Is it manageable?'

Random Guard: 'It's all locked down and separated. We may be able to take it back, but it won't be easy.'

Commander: 'We've got other prisoners, just vent out the air for that sector and leave it alone for the next 10 minutes or so.'

That said, given the size of Imperial spaceships, it's likely that this particular deck may not have a direct connection to the hull. Of course one could evacuate the other sections and then open all the bulkheads to create an "exhaust", but this (coupled with a potential evacuation of said sections) would take time and may potentially damage the machinery on decks necessary for ship operations (debris and bodies being hurled against terminals etc).

A safer option could be to simply stop air circulation - whilst taking much longer it would leave everything intact, as people simply suffocate where they stand (provided they don't manage to appropriate masks). Or, better yet, gas them.

All of the above is entirely hypothetical, of course. Information is limited.

Jimsolo wrote:1. Self destruct. This seems to be a silly sci-fi trope with no basis in reality that I know of. Planes, trains, tanks, space shuttles, and everything in-between, I don't know of a single vehicle ever built by mankind that has a button intentionally designed to cause the total destruction of the vehicle.

There are unmanned rockets transporting satellites into orbit today, that have a self destruct device onboard. If they get out of control, this device is used to prevent the possibility of the rocket crashing into a city.

1. Self destruct. This seems to be a silly sci-fi trope with no basis in reality that I know of. Planes, trains, tanks, space shuttles, and everything in-between, I don't know of a single vehicle ever built by mankind that has a button intentionally designed to cause the total destruction of the vehicle. Now, the prison ship, like many vehicles, might have systems which could be subverted or sabatoged which would result in the ship's destruction, but that can always be counteracted.

We also don't worry about our vehicles being taken over by aliens or daemonic warriors from another dimension and used against us.

Unmanned vehicles maybe. But no vehicles designed to actually carry people. It's just too dangerous to put a button or switch into a vehicle with no purpose other than to destroy it and kill everyone aboard.

I'm fairly sure I've read something about manned reconnaisance vehicles (aircraft and submarines) being fitted with a self-destruct, mainly to avoid analysis by the enemy but - ideally - also to conceal the entire incident and avoid being identified as the party violating another sovereign nation's borders. Probably was from the Cold War era.

Don't take my word on it, though, it's been quite a while since I've last dealt with real life military stuff.

That said, I'm certain that the current reluctance to employ such mechanisms is the result of most modern militaries' (meaning the ones who would actually be able to develop and implement the necessary modifications) having adopted a doctrine defining the human as being more important than the equipment or vehicle he or she is working with.

The Imperium in 40k, on the other hand, thinks exactly the other way around. The only thing the Imperium dislikes more than loosing one of its ancient starships is seeing it being put to use again by its enemies. Under these circumstances, a self-destruct mechanism makes perfect sense.

yeah, Self-destruct = Grimdark. thats reason enough to include it.


and as for it being an overused Sci-fi trope: self-destructing is, but it often requires you to jury-rig the engines or something.

and we do have instances of Navy Captains detonating their Warp Drives out of desperation(Battle for Maccragge, Emperor battleship detonated its warp drives, sucking the entire hive fleet into the warp)

Jimsolo wrote:
1. Self destruct. This seems to be a silly sci-fi trope with no basis in reality that I know of. Planes, trains, tanks, space shuttles, and everything in-between, I don't know of a single vehicle ever built by mankind that has a button intentionally designed to cause the total destruction of the vehicle.

A single button? No. But modern warships are designed to be scuttled, if need be. The same mechanisms that can be used to selectively flood compartments can also be used to sink the ship.

I think there was some stuff in Gav Thorpe's "Last Chancers" books about prison ships - and prison planets, and prison space stations...

Never mind self destruct, if all seems lost just translate to the warp and drop the geller fields. Be sure to shoot yourself as you do. It's not self destruct as such but it's good to know you've quashed the mutiny in the most hideous, violent, painfull way imaginable.

I'm pretty sure that prisoners in the Imperium would have some kind of exploding collar

Grey Templar wrote:yeah, Self-destruct = Grimdark. thats reason enough to include it.


and as for it being an overused Sci-fi trope: self-destructing is, but it often requires you to jury-rig the engines or something.

and we do have instances of Navy Captains detonating their Warp Drives out of desperation(Battle for Maccragge, Emperor battleship detonated its warp drives, sucking the entire hive fleet into the warp)

Yeah the only time i have ever seen an actual self-destruct mechanism (in sci-fi) that wasn't jury rigged is in Star Trek and they seem awfully keen to use it in some cases...

purplefood wrote:Yeah the only time i have ever seen an actual self-destruct mechanism (in sci-fi) that wasn't jury rigged is in Star Trek and they seem awfully keen to use it in some cases...

Starfleet thoughtfully includes self-destruction in their fully comprehensive insurance policy

Daedricbob wrote:

purplefood wrote:Yeah the only time i have ever seen an actual self-destruct mechanism (in sci-fi) that wasn't jury rigged is in Star Trek and they seem awfully keen to use it in some cases...

Starfleet thoughtfully includes self-destruction in their fully comprehensive insurance policy

Do you think they pay extra for that?

purplefood wrote:

Daedricbob wrote:

purplefood wrote:Yeah the only time i have ever seen an actual self-destruct mechanism (in sci-fi) that wasn't jury rigged is in Star Trek and they seem awfully keen to use it in some cases...

Starfleet thoughtfully includes self-destruction in their fully comprehensive insurance policy

Do you think they pay extra for that?

They probably do,

and if used it most certaintly voids the policy.

I thought that in Soviet Starfleet, nobody pays for insurance. Or anything else.

In Soviet Starleet Insurance pays for you!
And all that that implies...

Commissar Molotov wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:
1. Self destruct. This seems to be a silly sci-fi trope with no basis in reality that I know of. Planes, trains, tanks, space shuttles, and everything in-between, I don't know of a single vehicle ever built by mankind that has a button intentionally designed to cause the total destruction of the vehicle.

A single button? No. But modern warships are designed to be scuttled, if need be. The same mechanisms that can be used to selectively flood compartments can also be used to sink the ship.

You are absolutely correct...which is what I said in the original post. Self-destruction in real life is the result of crew sabotage, (and, hey, if you need to keep the ship out of enemy hands, you do what you gotta do) a prospect that only gets easier the more complex the vessel gets. But I stand by my original (ammended) statement. I don't think that there is any current vehicle designed to carry people which contains a device with no purpose other than to destroy the vehicle. It's dangerous and overly redundant, since sabotage can accomplish the same thing.

Jimsolo wrote:

Commissar Molotov wrote:

Jimsolo wrote:
1. Self destruct. This seems to be a silly sci-fi trope with no basis in reality that I know of. Planes, trains, tanks, space shuttles, and everything in-between, I don't know of a single vehicle ever built by mankind that has a button intentionally designed to cause the total destruction of the vehicle.

A single button? No. But modern warships are designed to be scuttled, if need be. The same mechanisms that can be used to selectively flood compartments can also be used to sink the ship.

You are absolutely correct...which is what I said in the original post. Self-destruction in real life is the result of crew sabotage, (and, hey, if you need to keep the ship out of enemy hands, you do what you gotta do) a prospect that only gets easier the more complex the vessel gets. But I stand by my original (ammended) statement. I don't think that there is any current vehicle designed to carry people which contains a device with no purpose other than to destroy the vehicle. It's dangerous and overly redundant, since sabotage can accomplish the same thing.

Studies have shown that having a self-destruct button on board your newest and shiniest warship is prone to abuse by enemy players.
Also sabotage is waaay more fun to do.