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Looking for some advice on this list:

HQ- BigMek(1)
-Power Claw
-KFF
-Bosspole
-Attack Squig
TOTAL: 130

HQ- BigMek(1)
-Burna
-KFF
-Bosspole
-Cybork Body
TOTAL: 120

ELITE- Burna Boyz(15)
-Mek: Free
TOTAL: 225

ELITE- Lootas(11)
TOTAL: 165

ELITE- Lootas(11)
TOTAL: 165

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)
-Shootas
-Rokkit Launcher(1)
-Big Shoota(2)
-Nob
--Power Claw
--Bosspole
TOTAL: 240


TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)
-Shootas
-Rokkit Launcher(1)
-Big Shoota(2)
-Nob
--Power Claw
--Bosspole
TOTAL: 240


TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)
-Shootas
-Rokkit Launcher(1)
-Big Shoota(2)
-Nob
--Power Claw
--Bosspole
TOTAL: 240


TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)
-Shootas
-Rokkit Launcher(1)
-Big Shoota(2)
-Nob
--Power Claw
--Bosspole
TOTAL: 240

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(3)
-Twin-linked Rocket Launcher(2)
-Buzzsaw(3)
TOTAL: 210

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(3)
-Twin-linked Rocket Launcher(2)
-Buzzsaw(3)
TOTAL: 210

HEAVY SUPPORT- Battlewagon(1)
-Grot Riggers: 5
-Armor Plates: 10
-Grabbin' Claw: 5
-Reinforced Ram: 5
-Kannon: 10
-Rokkit Launcher(2)
-Big Shoota(2)
TOTAL: 155

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)
-Grotzooka(2)
-Rocket Launcher
TOTAL: 140

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)
-Grotzooka(2)
-Rocket Launcher
TOTAL: 140

TOTAL: 2500

I prefer and have had much better luck with Shoota Boyz versus Slugga Boyz. Just my personal perference.
I have also had some incredible luck with the Grotzookas in the past, which I know that is exactly what it is, luck.
I am worried about my ability to take out heavy armor? What do you think. Is there something better. I know I love having the crap ton of boyz in there. My opponent always gives me that look like, "Man this is going to take a while". LOL
Advice wanted thanks!

B-Bump? No improvements?

Was thumbing through the codex. Now, I have used the Flash Gitz before for fun, and, surprisingly, they did a good job. The only beef I got with them is they take up a HEAVY SUPPORT choice. If say they were elite, like the nobs, which have similar stat lines, would they be a better choice? Just wondering....

Also, does anyone have any ideas on the foot sloggin. I T-totally agree that 30 boyz is the minimum when it comes to having a mob, but, if you don't want to foot slog them then you have to limit the numbers so they can ride in style. Thoughts!?

HI T-Bone,

A few suggestions for you;

Big Meks even with upgrades arent great fighters, and still easy to kill. Suggest you keep them as cheap as possible with minimal upgrades.

Your Boyz Squads have mixed weapons, I would stick to one or the other - big shoota or rokkitz - not a mix so they are better at one thing, personally I would go Rokkitz. Also squad size, 30 is great - but if you find them hard to manuover dont be afraid to try 20's.

Lootas potentially suffer from leadership problems since they dont have access to a bosspole. Suggest you either max out your loota unit to take full advantage of the mob leadership, or minimise them so they are less of a target priority but still useful to you.

Deff Koptaz have bad leadership so are best operating alone, suggest you change to 3 units of 1.

Recommend not mixing weapons in the Kanz units, maybe 1 unit with rokkitz 1 with grotzookas, (if you got a third unit I would keep it with Rokkits)

IF you want to make a Kan wall try to take all 9 possible Kanz, if you also still want the battle wagon then perhaps swap your burna boyz for nobz unit (you could give all the nobz kombi skorcha's if you really still want some drive by BBQ action) that lets you get a battle wagon dedicated transport instead of taking your heavy slot. ALso maybe put a deff rolla on your wagon.

IF you decided to change up to a full 9 kans then you might also want to add a deffdread - keep him cheap - they arent super by themselves, but helps add a bit more target saturation to go with the Kanz (and the model is really cool!)

Big Meks even with upgrades arent great fighters, and still easy to kill. Suggest you keep them as cheap as possible with minimal upgrades.
- Ok I will drop them down and use the points somewhere else-

Your Boyz Squads have mixed weapons, I would stick to one or the other - big shoota or rokkitz - not a mix so they are better at one thing, personally I would go Rokkitz. Also squad size, 30 is great - but if you find them hard to manuover dont be afraid to try 20's.
- I think the only reason I would drop them to 20 is to pack them on a Battlewagon and put the foot to the floor with open-topped to get them in assault range fast..lol-

Lootas potentially suffer from leadership problems since they dont have access to a bosspole. Suggest you either max out your loota unit to take full advantage of the mob leadership, or minimise them so they are less of a target priority but still useful to you.
- agree with you there, I will up them with the extra points so at least they can spend a turn or 2 blasting away before I fail, and for some reason I always do, a moral test-

Deff Koptaz have bad leadership so are best operating alone, suggest you change to 3 units of 1
- kk, will drop them to 1, my only thing is would you rather just drop them all together or keep 1 or 2 then fill the FAST ATTACK role with something else?-

Recommend not mixing weapons in the Kanz units, maybe 1 unit with rokkitz 1 with grotzookas, (if you got a third unit I would keep it with Rokkits)
-Yea since the buggers are run off the best BS that orks can muster, I might change one group grotzooks and one rokkits-

IF you want to make a Kan wall try to take all 9 possible Kanz, if you also still want the battle wagon then perhaps swap your burna boyz for nobz unit (you could give all the nobz kombi skorcha's if you really still want some drive by BBQ action) that lets you get a battle wagon dedicated transport instead of taking your heavy slot. ALso maybe put a deff rolla on your wagon.
- OH SWEET! I didnt even realize that BWs could be taken as a dedicated transport for them, great suggestion! I wont miss the Killkannon upgrade-

IF you decided to change up to a full 9 kans then you might also want to add a deffdread - keep him cheap - they arent super by themselves, but helps add a bit more target saturation to go with the Kanz (and the model is really cool!)
- K I will play around with everything else first then hit this up last. I was concerned with the Kan Wall concept at 2500 points. All I see on other threads is the AV14 threat and lots of armor at 2500-


ALSO, after this I will be posting for my first APOC game list, thanks for the suggestions will follow up later today after work when I get the chance to change around my army

- List all your upgrades on one line, so your army list uses less of the page.

- Big Meks should never be in combat. You're wasting 80 points on useless KFF upgrades. Also, who are you fielding them with? If it's the Boyz Mobz, then your Mekz don't need Bosspoles because the Nobz already have them.

- Who is going in your Battlewagon? Is it the Burnas? Nobody else can fit/should be in there, so I'm going to assume it's the Burnas.

- Special weapons on Boyz Mobz is a waste of points. You're wasting 80 points on special weapons.

- Personally, I only take individual Deffkoptas. Without the ability to benefit from Mob Rule, Deffkoptas are fragile and have just a 7 leadership, they most often run themselves off the field. That said, it's not usually worth more than taking three units of single Koptas. Save yourself 210 points and split up three of them.

- If the Burnas are going in that Battlewagon, then you should be moving 13" every turn. No need for a cannon, or really most of that stuff. I take a RPJ, Deff Rolla, Grot Riggers, and a single Big Shoota to soak up a Weapon Destroyed result. The Deffrolla is the only weapon you need on that tank. Save yourself 30 points.

- Grotzookas are fine weapons for Killa Kans, but you've already got almost 150 antipersonnel guns on the table as it is, what you're lacking is a little bit of armor penetration, and your forward guard (your Kanz) should be softening up that armor so the Boyz behind 'em can get at the squishy stuff inside, right? Load out all your Kanz with KMBs. They're a little heavy on the points, but they're 24" STR 8 AP 2 guns at BS 3 which means they're your most effective weapon at cracking armor, and can also be used to deny FNP and toast Terminators and their annoying 2+ saves. Gets Hot! doesn't matter since the gun's on a vehicle. Rokkit Launchas are okay, but when the difference of 5 points is the difference between Instant Death on a Terminator and a "Hurr hurr, made my 2+ save" on a Terminator, it's worth it. Spend the 50 points.

Make these changes and you've got 350 unused points. Fill out the rest of your Lootas Mobz (8 more) and you've got 230 unused points. What to do with that, I have no idea, maybe get some Deff Dreadz or something.

- Edit - I'm on board with getting some Nobz, taking them in the dedicated Battlewagon, and getting 3 more Kanz, and dropping the Burnas.. Even if it means dropping a full unit of Boyz to do it (Three units of Boyz and three units of Kanz makes a lot of sense).

I wouldn't put a power klaw on the Big Mek as he will strike last and probably be dead before he gets to use it. A burna would be better and you go in initiative order.

If you're going to take rokkits and want them to succeed then you should max them per unit, the more shots the more chances of hitting.

The single Battlewagon does not belong in this army. It will speed ahead and leave the main force behind. Plus it will be a easy target.

What's cool about the Big Mek is that he's the only model in the Codex that can take two Power Klaws, but it's so not worth it to make Big Meks into even minimally effective fighters. It would be a cool looking model, though.

Ok, after reading down through here to V 2.0:

HQ- BigMek(1)-Burna & KFF

HQ- BigMek(1)-Burna & KFF

ELITE- Nobz(10)-Painboy-grot orderly
-Shoota/Scorcher kombi-weapon
-Dedicated Transport: Battlewagon-Base Cost-Deff Rolla-Wrecking Ball-Boarding Plank-'Ard Case

ELITE- Lootas(15)

ELITE- Lootas(15)

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)-Shootas: Free-Rokkit Launcher(3)-Nob-Power Claw-Bosspole

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)-Shootas: Free-Rokkit Launcher(3)-Nob-Power Claw-Bosspole

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)-Shootas: Free-Rokkit Launcher(3)-Nob-Power Claw-Bosspole

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(1)-Buzzsaw

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(1)-Buzzsaw

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(1)-Buzzsaw

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)-Grotzooka(3)

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)-Kustom Mega-Blasta(3)

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)-Kustom Mega-Blasta(3)

TOTAL: 2500

Now really quick here. The nobz in the battlewagon are really meant to get in there and cause some chaos. I fully expect them to get slaughtered and maybe ram something and burn something.
The Big Meks will be walking with troops in order to draw the most cover from the KFF and the Kan wall. The lootas mean time will be hanging back pounding whatever I can get to with lots of dakka. The deffkoptas are also a sacrifice set of units.
Put the KMB on two sets of Kans with the suggestion above. I like the grotzookas so I kept that on one set..lol. Anyhow, I also kept the rokkit launchers for the random glancing/pen I can sometimes get. Removed the twin-linked rokkit launchers off the deffcoptas since they are BS 2 anyhow. Gave the Nobz a painboy to soak up some FNP rolls. Anything else that might work better.
Does anyone have a example of a Battlewagon spam list?

I vote you keep a single kff for protection for the kans. its not that many points if you divide that 50 points up by how many models get that cover save. 5+ iis a good save for orks. i would get rid of the buzz saws for twinlinked rockets. the deffkoptas are very quick and can get to the opponents back armour. strength 8 on back armour or even side armour it great.

Looks to me that you are short on points. I counted up 2440.

I would not use KMB as the are just so expensive. Yes they might help against terminators. But your real job for the kans are anti armor. At least that is what I would do with them. Next take rokkits and buzzsaws on your deffkoptas. They scout up shot first turn at tank and hopefully assault tank too. 1 str 8 shot then a str 7 PK charge. You need to drop ard case. Waste of points as in, will close the top and only 2 will be able to fire from your battlewagon. You want more to fire then 2. I also would add a PK in the nobs to make use of the Boarding plank.

You have a pretty good start, but you just need to twik it a bit more. Good luck..

I'd actually say get rid of the Buzzsaw on one of the Koptas, use the points to buy Rokkits for the three of them, and a BS or Rokket (or if you have the points a Kannon- multipurpose Rokkit that can be fired as a blast on the move) on the Wagon, so Weapon Destroyed results don't stop it movin'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What Balsak means to say is:

"Make a Kan Wall, just like all the other ones on the Internet. It's really competitive, because everyone enjoys winning more than they enjoy playing their own unique army."

'Waste' points if you want- personally, I don't think points are ever wasted, unless you're not having fun.

Um no I am not saying that he should play what list are on the internet. I guess I should have typed it better..I don't feel that he needs the ap 2 when his targets should be more for the tanks so ap doesn't matter. and if you noticed he is under points allready so yes he has the points to take rokkits on his deffkoptas.

i am further from that then you could ever know. I hate internet lists. Because all they tell you is what to take they don't tell you how to play them. He asked for an opinion, he can do what ever he wants to do with my opinion. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. I just pointed out things I might do.

I think points can be wasted if you "waste" them on something that you can do for cheaper points. why take KMB when you can take the same thing for 5 points cheaper? Sure if you are scared of terminators then go right ahead and do that. then its really not a "waste", but if you only plan on shooting at tanks Like I think they should (as orks have a hard time agianst armor). Then why not take the same str weapon for 5 points cheaper? Because AP doesn't matter for tanks(unless ap1 of copurse)

I have strongly and vehemently defended the decision to take the KMB over the Rokkit Launcha. I'm not going to get into it again, but as I've told people before, test it out. I think it's worth 5 points (especially in high point value games, where TEQs are more common) to give them that strength. You're certainly not LOSING anything (range or Strength) by not taking them. Make your own decision on it. The biggest pain in the ass is that the kit doesn't come with a KMB.

Definitely take those TL Rokkits on those Koptaz.

If you're loading up the battlewagon with Nobz, make sure to diversify them as best you can to mess around with wounds. I know this is going to hurt your point values, but a fully diversified Nob squad is a death star on the field.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel, though. Orks do their best when you do one thing and do it well. This list looks like it's really coming together.

Hey No worries- I posted to get some advice and I can accept some pretty rough criticism, otherwise, I would not have posted. I am greatly appreciative of ANY advice I get and always take into account all situations. Doesn't matter if your straight forward or a side swiping ass, lol, I can take it. I know the Kan Wall, and through practice, I have gotten better. One of my chief opponents in Afghanistan was playing Space Wolves, talk about a rude first time playing 40K. He destroyed me, but, always we did a after action and talked through what I could have done better as a player, not just the list.

I do agree with the KMB, if not in whole, in part, to handle the numerous SM armies I am sure to face. Grey Knights are pretty popular now that they have their own codex.

"Nod"-Definitely take those TL Rokkits on those Koptaz.

I will work on making my Nobs more diversified.

Thanks to anyone who posted! I asked and you have dilivered. I get another set of Kans and my Big Mek(one with the KFF) today so I will be painting this weekend. Which, is my favorite part of the game, next to playing. I will post my new list after I chill this weekend and put some more thought into breaking, if not just bending a little, that cookie cutter to make the list more mine. Again, thanks to all who posted!!!

That Battlewagon still doesn't belong in this list. If the opponent goes first it will be blown to bitz and expensive Nobz walking. If you go second the Nobz won't be in range for first turn assault and maybe out of KFF range, if they hit second turn will definately be out of KFF range and get a single assault phase in before the expensive Nobz and Battlewagon are toasted. If you want some kind of distraction I would just use the Koptas for alpha strike or scout them if you go second anyway as people who know what they can do will make a big deal out of them.

Also, it's not a question of playing whatever one else is playing, it's the question of what works and what doesn't. No one ever complains netlists are gak. Though this is a whole other can of worms and a subject which will never die.

I'd drop the KMBs for Rokkits, and use the spare points for TL Rokkits on all 3 Koptas. They should have Saws and Rokkits each.

I'd drop the Wagon and the Nobz, they don't really belong in this list. But if you're gonna keep it, you really need to change how it's kitted. 'Ard Case is an "upgrade" that makes your vehicle a whole lot worse. You don't have the protective upgrades a transport of this points level really needs. A wagon transporting Nobz should look like this at 2500 points: Deff Rolla, Big Shoota, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates and Red Paint Job (and maybe a Boarding Plank too).

Kill Termies with power weapons in CC. Don't bother trying to shoot them with KMBs. You won't have that many opportunities to pop shots at exposed Termies unless your opponent is terrible.

'cept Orks don't have that many Power Weapons. Burnaboyz, and Powerklaws, which, considereing that Termies may in fact have regular old Power WEapons, isn't a great choice.

Being able to pick one or two off from a distance is really a lot more helpful that most people give credit- and think, it's a 5 point upgrade that has a 1/2 chance of taking out a, what, 50 point model?

agree with mercer, that wagon does not belong here, id drop it and the nobz to add a squad of kommandos with snikkrot.
keep the meks cheap, swap the KMB to rokkits, get saws and rokkits on the kopptas, try to add another large squad of boys, and possibly a cheap gretchin squad.

with orks you either throw them all in wagons, or none. that wagon wont last past turn one as is now.

Anvildude wrote:'cept Orks don't have that many Power Weapons. Burnaboyz, and Powerklaws, which, considereing that Termies may in fact have regular old Power WEapons, isn't a great choice.

Being able to pick one or two off from a distance is really a lot more helpful that most people give credit- and think, it's a 5 point upgrade that has a 1/2 chance of taking out a, what, 50 point model?

Um he does have 9 kans, they all have DCCW's. So yeah he does have alot of power weapons. And that would be even better if the terminators had just power weapons, then they cant hurt the Kans.

None the less I think Lootas can deal with terminators pretty well as goes with the boys. you shoot them down and then assault if need be. Everyone knows you kill terminators with torrent of fire not hig st low AP weapons. You will never kill enough that way. But a squad of 15 lootas getting 10-15 wounds could put a hurting on them. At least thats what I do and has worked for me. But if need be I assault them with a couple of dreads or kans and watch them pop before they even get to swing with those power fist or what have you.

And yes I do agree the BW is alittle out of place, but it could also be a nice way to stop them from shooting at the kans. So if you think you want the BW in there to attract more fire power then I say go for it. You could turn the reg Nobs into Meganob and still take the BW. Then you have another anvil in that squad as well to again scare some people into firing at them instead of your kans. Just have to think outside the box. I use Meganobs all the time and they have won me the game more times that not. Just an idea, they end up being cheaper then if you made all your reg nobs diverse with wound allocation stuff.

True, DCCWs. Thing is, though, KMBs are Assault weapons, and kans can't get fleet. So that turn before you assault them, if you can pop a couple with the KMBs, you're going to do a lot better in the combat.

Okie Doke...give me some time and I will re-work into final draft, thanks for the advice! I will be trying this list out on up and coming Monday on either CSM or Space Wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK last revision, here we go:

HQ- BigMek(1)-KFF

HQ- BigMek(1)-KFF

ELITE- Mega-Nobz(5)
-Dedicated Transport: Battlewagon-Deff Rolla-Boarding Plank-Grot Riggers-Big Shoota(2)

ELITE- Lootas(15)

ELITE- Lootas(15)

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)-Shootas: Free-Rokkit Launcher(3)-Nob-Power Claw-Bosspole

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)-Shootas: Free-Rokkit Launcher(3)-Nob-Power Claw-Bosspole

TROOPS- Ork Boyz(30)-Shootas: Free-Rokkit Launcher(3)-Nob-Power Claw-Bosspole

TROOPS- Deff Dread-Dreadnought CCW- 2-Grot Riggers

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(1)-Buzzsaw-Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcher

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(1)-Buzzsaw-Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcher

FAST ATTACK-Deffcoptas(1)-Buzzsaw-Twin-Linked Rokkit Launcher

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)-Grotzooka(3)

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)-Rokkit Launcher(2)-Kustom Mega-Blasta(1)

HEAVY SUPPORT- Killa Kan(3)-Rokkit Launcher(2)-Kustom Mega-Blasta(1)

TOTAL: 2490 this time with 10 left over. What to do what to do. How is this list. I tried to add a little of everyone's advice. I think after I play test this monday I may have a better idea on how certain things work for me.

Ok I have 2465 for your list. So you still have 35 pts.

I would put armor plates on both the dread and the BW, then you can give 3 of your meganob Combi-Skorchas.

2500 exact.

Looks pretty good to me, yeah try it out. You might find something that you don't like or love.

Anvildude wrote:'cept Orks don't have that many Power Weapons. Burnaboyz, and Powerklaws, which, considereing that Termies may in fact have regular old Power WEapons, isn't a great choice.

I almost don't consider burnas, since they are a rarer weapon for orks. Used in my favorite way, Orks are all about the Power Klaws, this solves the problems of vehicles, marines, termies.....all of the above.
Those Kans will dice things up well to boot.

The Battlewagon REALLY needs armor plating. I get's rid of a 1/6 chance of being unable to move from the damage table. With a deff rolla, your biggest loss(other than a destroyed result) is the loss of mobility.
I would drop the grot riggers and have a Big Mek inside. The field will cover more, because it radiates 6" from any point of the BW, and the Mek can make repair rolls for immobilized results AND weapon damage.

I'm not a fan of Deffkoptas with buzzsaws(and TL-Rokkit Launchas are almost always a must) because I think they're a bit pricy for a one shot unit, but I also haven't played at 2500 points either.

I'm starting to step away from my normal tactics and experimenting with other units(like the koptas).

To me, 210 points from your koptas could be....wait....

Okay, shoot, counted, and yeah, it's 2465. So we have 35 points available....let's see:

I'd try dropping the grot riggers on the Battle Wagon and Deff Dread(45 points available), add Armor plates to both(25 now). For the Deff Dread you see, is one of those models that's going to attract fire from anti-tank weapons.....as no one wants to be charged by it with all those DCCW arms. I don't know if special weapons on boyz are really a waste of points.....to me they are running sluggas and mechanized infantry but shoota boyz are different. Drop 3 Rokkit launchas.....1 from each mob or all from one. (55 points) Drop the Deffkoptas, IMO, because those are one-shot units that might take out armor units, might draw fire that would otherwise target your main force, might be really effective because you might win initiative, and might hand over quicker victory points, and might(read most likely) be throwing so easy kill points for annihilation mission. Those are a lot of mights. So drop 'em and we have......265 points now!

Add a unit of 9 Warbikers, Nob upgrade w/PK, BP

They always have a 4+cover save and have 4+ armor. They're fast, shooty, and choppy.

Thus begins my plan to slowly draw you into the Kult of Speed!

Green is best! Get Stuck in, and start krumpin'!

Okay, shoot, counted, and yeah, it's 2465. So we have 35 points available....let's see:

I'd try dropping the grot riggers on the Battle Wagon and Deff Dread(45 points available), add Armor plates to both(25 now). For the Deff Dread you see, is one of those models that's going to attract fire from anti-tank weapons.....as no one wants to be charged by it with all those DCCW arms. I don't know if special weapons on boyz are really a waste of points.....to me they are running sluggas and mechanized infantry but shoota boyz are different. Drop 3 Rokkit launchas.....1 from each mob or all from one. (55 points) Drop the Deffkoptas, IMO, because those are one-shot units that might take out armor units, might draw fire that would otherwise target your main force, might be really effective because you might win initiative, and might hand over quicker victory points, and might(read most likely) be throwing so easy kill points for annihilation mission. Those are a lot of mights. So drop 'em and we have......265 points now!

Add a unit of 9 Warbikers, Nob upgrade w/PK, BP

"What ...wwhhaaat!" Yea, lol, I was thinking of adding some bikes but haven't used them so wasn't sure how they would go with this list. The one thing I always run into is the assault game. No one wants to allow the Orks to get into assault range and get the furious charge off. So they play games with the distances etc to avoid that. I've found that shoota boyz allow me another facet in causing them to want to get stuck in versus a truck load of horribly in-accurate dakka blasting away. And well I love my dakka.
I don't know how I keep adding these things up wrong. I will have to check my math again. I don't have access to Army Builder at the moment. I will consider dropping the riggers for armor.
I figured that the Deff would be bascially FF down before he gets into CC. Those that don't get him down before then, beware. I can't wait to get that one put together. Right now still working on my Kans. Got a new Big Mek, fine cast, and it looks great. Impressed with the difference.

Bikes do have Dakkagunz...

dont get rid of the riggers...trust me they are well worth it. espeially when someone stops shooting at it because it is immoblized and then they get to close and you fix it and then assault them.

Just add plates like I said to both BW and dread and then you cna mess aroundwith the last 15 points.

Yes a dread is something they don't want to get up there, but they are going to worry about the things shooting at them first. Keep the dread within KFF range and don't get to ahead of the rest of your army and it will survive. (for the most part) When its to late for someone to worrry then you crush them little panzzes..lol