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BrianDavion wrote:
umm Black Templars use Space Marine stuff, while they could use primarisized versions of their characters, and a upgrade kit, I'd hardly say that qualifies as "dire need"

Guard is mostly plastic and has a large number of options, ditto Tyranids. I'm sure they could get some new toys if GW was of a mind but I don't think it's exactly in dire need territory.

I mean I dunno Tyranids well eneugh to say, but... what tactical holes for guard are sitting unfilled?

He's not saying he wants new units so much as updated kits for what we have. These aren't to fill Tactical holes, they're to fix ancient kits that have been neglected for yet another Primaris release, or more annoyingly, a new model no one asked for that isn't even good.

Black Templar upgrade kit for example isn't compatible with the modern tac marine sprue without modifications and trimming, and has 0 Primaris bits.

Imperial Guard infantry squad boxes are a joke at this point, they're ancient and lack almost all the options they can take. Catachan infantry box comes with two flamers, two boxes, and that's it, not even a chainsword. Cadians get a whopping addition of a grenade launcher. For an army that can easily field 20 plasma guns without breaking a sweat. One of the most iconic units, the basilisk, is an old kit that is only sold online. Then you have several regiments that aren't even sold aside from some monopose metals. But to add insult to injury, instead of just redoing the basalisk kit, we got the taurox, which requires $20 upgrade kits from 3rd parties just make passable, yet it costs as much as a Russ $$$ wise.

For nids, same thing. There are some ancient models here, and others that don't really have the loadouts they should.

For guard and nids, not only are these old kits a bit annoying, but GW has been cutting the models in the box while raising the price on them over the years. It's inexcusable that 10 cadians now cost more than 20 did back in the day, and the kit isn't even remotely up to their competition's standards. You can get 30 bolt action riflemen for the price of 10 guardsmen, and the bolt action box comes with all the bits needed to make officers, weapon teams, and popular special weapons like panzerfausts and AR's. And not only that, they look better too. Compare a box of the new grenadiers, USMC, SS, or British Paras to a box of Catachans and Cadians and you'll get mad real quick.

And this is ignoring the poor orks, who had a very reasonable request. "Ghaz, new buggy, tankbustas/kommandoz, and deff koptaz." 4 backbone kits to the army that would've sold fine even as a redesign. But instead GW released 4 random buggy designs and called it a day.

That's the issue a lot of these armies are complaining about. It's not that they're not getting new models, but that these new models are completely out of touch with what the average player needs/wants. Core kits are pushing the legal drinking age in some armies and yet we have so many different Primaris models it's hard to keep the names straight. Sisters of battle is a great start, as was chaos finally giving us a havoc box, you get the idea. Now they just need to keep up with updated kits for stuff like the various xenos and less glamorous Imperial/chaos units. Primaris marines seriously need a break so other armies can get caught up with modern kits.

For sure the biggest entry is the Angels of Death rule that will be on page 34. You have to expect that they will get the same as regular marines with combat doctrines etc. This bodes well for SW and DA later.

So did dw get access to anything new? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier. Would be sweet to be able to field a techmarine.

 bullyboy wrote:
For sure the biggest entry is the Angels of Death rule that will be on page 34. You have to expect that they will get the same as regular marines with combat doctrines etc. This bodes well for SW and DA later.

Yeah. That is definitely a good sign. Perhaps each Space Marine will get their own Combat Doctrines? Who knows. I am hoping for exclusive Litanies for each one as well. It'll make me run Lemartes again to go with my Death Company.

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
So did dw get access to anything new? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier. Would be sweet to be able to field a techmarine.

Uh we got...

...Primaris Lieutenants to convert into Deathwatch Sergeants! Yay, us...?

At this point it feels like the only reason I'm playing Deathwatch is to create interesting and unique Marines from the whole array of Space Marines. I'm kind of okay with that, but it would be nice to at least be able to incorporate the Vanguard units- even if I can't mix them in with Intercessors (maybe all-phobos kill teams would be dope).

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Does it really?

I never found there was a shortage of reasons of why people consider certain units/combos/armies overpowered or underpowered. There are literally hundreds of threads on Dakkadakka alone on how people would change this mechanic or that unit.

Then that's called explaining the problem and communicating it, which is how you address a grievance. That's the correct way to make a complaint, and that's how things get fixed (well, ideally).

Keep in mind that for some problems that people complain about, it's white noise without that explanation. And we both know you can throw a stick into a mob of 40k players and hit 3 guys that are complaining because it's not 3rd Edition anymore (hyperbole, sure- but with everything there's folks who complain for the sake of complaining).

Another thing to consider is that sometimes people will complain about a thing, because they misunderstand a rule. I had a friend who, I kid you not- back in 7th edition thought flamers were absolutely useless and never took them and always complained about them... because he didn't know they could be used for overwatch because he misinterpreted the blast template rules. Once he explained the complaint he had, I showed him, and he felt silly.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
The paucity of reasons has in my experience never been on the side of people who want to improve the game, and is virtually always on the mentally lazy that dismiss other people's concerns as "whining" or "whining" or some other personal attack, instead of actually engaging in argument and reason.

Well, when you tell me that X sucks, I'm gonna wanna know how. Don't expect me to go and invest in Codexes or do in-depth research on armies I don't play or have any interest in.

Grey Knights, for example- oh yeah, those guys need a fix. And I know this, as someone who has zero desire to play them or get anything on them because someone explained to me where they're deficient and showed me the problem. Now I'm on that guy's side. If nothing else, now I know my friend that's a diehard Grey Knight player might need some kind of extra boost for a friendly game to be a bit more fair and balanced when I play him, and I don't feel like I'm just smashing his favorite toys. That's not a fix but it makes things a little better for everyone in some small way.

The mentally lazy are the ones that simply refuse to show others the problem. You want support, and you get that by showing people and educating them. You both end up better for it. But when you're just saying "X isn't good", and not bothering to explain to me why... well, many people would just write that off as whining or a player that doesn't know how to use his army. And that sucks and has an absolute zero positive.

I still find Deathwatch to be a great army overall. It has good units, and Shock Assault made terminators and vanvets better if you ever chose to take them. The Corvus still needs work damnit, I have 2 and wish they were better (I still play them, but they are overpriced for their utility).
Adding Vanguard would be great, but will need a new entry to have a mixed vanguard unit. maybe in their PA update sometime next year.

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
So did dw get access to anything new? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier. Would be sweet to be able to field a techmarine.

DW got access to the repulsor executioner.

 Jidmah wrote:

 ThirstySpaceMan wrote:
So did dw get access to anything new? Sorry if it was mentioned earlier. Would be sweet to be able to field a techmarine.

DW got access to the repulsor executioner.

I'm hoping we get a primaris tech marine not too far off, thunder fire cannons are in resin and literally the only remaining resin space Marine Unit (yes there are other things in finecast but it's characters) so it seems logical to put out a plastic one with a primaris tech marine.

a plastic tech marine would likely increase the odds of death watch having tech marines a fair bit

Any news regarding GSC making appearance with the new book?

I'm surprised his plasma pistol is still just a plasma pistol. It's obviously a cawl pattern, but no improved stats. Don't get me wrong, I'm cool with that as you don't need to remember even more slightly different weapons.

Any news re Nids at all? We need the French guys to start talking again.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Any news re Nids at all? We need the French guys to start talking again.

Great news, there are 2 french guys now. The new guy confirmed a lot of what the first french guy said and added more details to PA2 several weeks before pre-order. BTW, he was right about everything.

I'm going to paraphrase him and also, I'm not going to tell his name because of what happened to the first french guy (he doesn't talk much anymore unfortunately).

1) Neither the first guy nor the second said anything about Tyranids. Sorry :(

2) The second guy confirmed that BA will get Combat Doctrines and what they get will make BA "closer to -regular- SMs" and their bonus will trigger in Assault Doctrine.

3) He also said that "a lot of what is discussed right now about Chapter Approved 2019 is wrong".

And now the big bomb.

Selfcontrol wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Any news re Nids at all? We need the French guys to start talking again.

Great news, there are 2 french guys now. The new guy confirmed a lot of what the first french guy and added more details to PA2 several weeks before pre-order. BTW, he was right about everything.

I'm going to paraphrase him and also, I'm not going to tell his name because of what happened to the first french guy (he doesn't talk much anymore unfortunately).

1) Neither the first guy nor the second said anything about Tyranids. Sorry :(

2) The second guy confirmed that BA will get Combat Doctrines and what they get will be "close to what -regular- SMs got" and their bonus will trigger in Assault Doctrine.

3) He also said that "a lot of what is discussed right now about Chapter Approved 2019 is false".

And now the big bomb.

Spoiler:

PA will be over in June. V9 will come soon after PA is over.

What is V9?

New 40K edition.

EDIT : Currently, we are playing the 8th edition. In the french community, we use the word "version" (abbreviated "V") to talk about an edition.

5th edition = V5 / 6th edition = V6 etc.

I'm smiling and laughing so hard.
I hope that's true.

----

Though I suspect it will be a quick tidy-up edition like AoS2.0.

V8 to V9 will be like 6 to 7. Streamlining and cleanup i assume. And tbh, with all the beta rules and ca clutter that's a prett,y good idea imho

Would not be surprised at all if nids only get a small section of PA3 and dont even get rumors or an actual article

Selfcontrol wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Any news re Nids at all? We need the French guys to start talking again.

Great news, there are 2 french guys now. The new guy confirmed a lot of what the first french guy said and added more details to PA2 several weeks before pre-order. BTW, he was right about everything.

I'm going to paraphrase him and also, I'm not going to tell his name because of what happened to the first french guy (he doesn't talk much anymore unfortunately).

1) Neither the first guy nor the second said anything about Tyranids. Sorry :(

2) The second guy confirmed that BA will get Combat Doctrines and what they get will make BA "closer to -regular- SMs" and their bonus will trigger in Assault Doctrine.

3) He also said that "a lot of what is discussed right now about Chapter Approved 2019 is wrong".

And now the big bomb.

Spoiler:

PA will be over in June. V9 will come soon after PA is over.

I think I know who the second guy is. You're right in that Kikass has gone quiet.

Why don't you Francophones share the information? It's like blood out of a stone.

GaroRobe wrote:

Back with Mephiston, how many character models are there that can instantly die from a bad roll like Mephiston? The Lord of Death killed by a faulty plasma pistol

I never overcharge plasma on anything more valuable than a squad sergeant, even if I have rerolls available. My dice are too fickle. Let Mehpy shooy at S7 and it is all fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
If the Dreads borrowed the Wings of Sanguinius, Mephiston can now also surf on an Impulsor and hop off after it moved.

Yes but he can't assault if he does that (which is really what you want to be doing with Mephy). Otherwise he can jump out clkose to the enemy and fire his plasma pistol (see above ).

 Jidmah wrote:
DW got access to the repulsor executioner.

Ah yeah, that ludicrous points sink.

IMHO, if I'm going over 300 points for a vehicle... I'm not gonna use it, I'll just gonna drag the knight in for a bit more. Might as well.

Although as a personal rule, I don't do LoW at 1k or less. It strikes me as ... assy.

Selfcontrol wrote:
And now the big bomb.

Spoiler:

PA will be over in June. V9 will come soon after PA is over.

Just after Sisters finally get a new codex? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

Selfcontrol wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Any news re Nids at all? We need the French guys to start talking again.

Great news, there are 2 french guys now. The new guy confirmed a lot of what the first french guy said and added more details to PA2 several weeks before pre-order. BTW, he was right about everything.

I'm going to paraphrase him and also, I'm not going to tell his name because of what happened to the first french guy (he doesn't talk much anymore unfortunately).

1) Neither the first guy nor the second said anything about Tyranids. Sorry :(

2) The second guy confirmed that BA will get Combat Doctrines and what they get will make BA "closer to -regular- SMs" and their bonus will trigger in Assault Doctrine.

3) He also said that "a lot of what is discussed right now about Chapter Approved 2019 is wrong".

And now the big bomb.

Spoiler:

PA will be over in June. V9 will come soon after PA is over.

If true, the Combat Doctrines for BAngels makes me very happy. And so does 9E coming soon after. Hopefully it just cleans up the issues 8th has, especially CP’s.

I have my own sources, and while I'll never say they're 100% accurate... there's been a bit of stuff they've whispered to me that at least seemed very close to what they were trying explain to me. I don't think they're privy to things after a certain point, but rather earlier in the phase.

As I'm understanding, we'll see edition 8.5 soon-ish. Maybe they'll call it 9th. It'll basically be what we've got now, but refined and polished up with a few adjustments, namely the changes that have been made since 8th. As I was told, there was still a lot that they hadn't figured out before 8th was sent out the door and they were hoping to have it all at the point where it is now within the first year.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to look at how Warcry is played, we might see something like that make it to 40k. It won't be 40k or Kill Team, maybe just an alternate way to play a game or something.

"Legends" is going to piss off a lot of people. And it's not going to be one set of profiles for models that aren't made any more, it'll be something they add models to over the years. You'll still be able to use them but there just won't be any planning made around those particular units. I'm not sure what that means.

Just what I hear, take it with a grain of salt. Things change A LOT apparently, and I've a tendency to misinterpret (this person has very broken English).

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Any news re Nids at all? We need the French guys to start talking again.

Great news, there are 2 french guys now. The new guy confirmed a lot of what the first french guy said and added more details to PA2 several weeks before pre-order. BTW, he was right about everything.

I'm going to paraphrase him and also, I'm not going to tell his name because of what happened to the first french guy (he doesn't talk much anymore unfortunately).

1) Neither the first guy nor the second said anything about Tyranids. Sorry :(

2) The second guy confirmed that BA will get Combat Doctrines and what they get will make BA "closer to -regular- SMs" and their bonus will trigger in Assault Doctrine.

3) He also said that "a lot of what is discussed right now about Chapter Approved 2019 is wrong".

And now the big bomb.

Spoiler:

PA will be over in June. V9 will come soon after PA is over.

I think I know who the second guy is. You're right in that Kikass has gone quiet.

Why don't you Francophones share the information? It's like blood out of a stone.

IIRC I think one of the leakers said something about the sleeping beast that is GW legal starting to twitch its eyelids open and sniffing around its horritying snout, so he decided to lie low for some time.

8.5 "hey we actually put all the rules in one spot and you keep your codexes" edition? Cool, works for me. Maybe reprint a few dexes that came out early on to fix the ones that have garbage traits/relics/etc. Just as long as the books are still usable.

9.0 "nice codex you had there, shame if it was useless paper 6 months after it came out" edition. Ehhhhh, better be really good and they better finally stick all the armies in once book or online downloads all at once. Otherwise it'll be really annoying.

Should've known pyschic awakening was the harbinger of 9th, it's Gathering storm all over again. Makes sense, we just got some really useful and thematic chaos rules

I get the books I need for free, so I say bring on the new edition. Sans command points and stratagems, please.

strategems and command points are a fun element, far superior to the fiasco that was formations in 7th. Just re-balance the detachments and allotment of CP. Battalions should drop back to 3, but make the base 5 or 6. Brigades ought to pick up a Lord of War slot as well

I was kind of expecting it.

After 3 CA the standard rulebook is looking like a different game.

They will publish a new rulebook with consolidated rules and some fixes here and there.

They will not call it 9th, because this edition is supposed to be the last one.

They will more easily call it Rulebook V2, which could actually be a better name after all if they are not changing much.

But now let's talk about the serious stuff... where are my tyranid spoilers11!?11?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
And now the big bomb.

Spoiler:

PA will be over in June. V9 will come soon after PA is over.

Just after Sisters finally get a new codex? FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

The books will carry over. It’ll be like AoS 2.0.

Release of Sisters and a "Just the rules" version (that wasn't updated) seems like a good indication 9th is around the corner.

Good news is, all my armies are complete so I don't feel like I have to chase the rule edition anymore. Won't be going to 9th when it happens - next year or ten years down the road.