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Hey guys, I recently ran into a SW player and I was subject to the spell murderous hurricane.
In the spells description is state you treat any terrain as difficult and dangerous for the entirety of your turn. OKAY, cool. The faq states you dont have to hit with the spell, meaning it has unlimited range, because you can target the unit, then make it in difficult and dangerous from 50 inches away. Okay...a little more broken.(which was clarified in the FAQ)
Now in the FAQ it says that "The unit treats terrain as difficult and dangerous for the entirety of the next players turn."
Okay now, in the space wolf codex, it says that the unit treats terrain, even clear terrain as difficult and dangerous.
My question is regarding the FAQ's relation to the codex. The FAQ omits completely the wording "clear terrain" and merely says terrain, where as the codex specifies for greater accuracy. Now does the codex's wording transfer to the FAQ? or does the FAQs omission of the wording clear terrain(the part of the board that we use without any area terrain/impassible)
Any clarification would be nice, thanks.

pg. 13 BRB = "there are three types of terrain...clear, difficult, and impassible."

Ergo, terrain in the FAQ omits the word for simplicity but is generalized to mean clear, difficult, and impassible. Thus, it basically says the same exact thing using less words.

Damn..that is one overpowered physic ability.

Clauss wrote:Damn..that is one overpowered physic ability.

No it isnt.

IIRC the FAQ now makes SW players roll To Hit with all PSAs, after rolling a Psychic Test, even if they originally auto-hit.

SW players seemingly need to jump through many more hoops to unleash these powers now.

In fact, JotWW needs a Psychic Test, a roll To Hit on the first model in the line (still under debate) and then the opponent "saves" by rolling Initiative on each model along the line.

3 hoops to jump through as opposed to a Psychic Test and saves, as most powers.

The Zoanthrope really cries for all the "nerfed" SW players.

Steelmage99 wrote:The Zoanthrope really cries for all the "nerfed" SW players.

Please explain?

Also, as am addition to the above, you can simply choose not to move the following turn to avoid the Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests for your unit. Instead rapid firing.

What does JotWW have to do with this thread?

Where does it say you have to make a psychic test for JotWW and roll for each unit hit by JotWW? Because honestly. That is freaking ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Steelmage99 wrote:The Zoanthrope really cries for all the "nerfed" SW players.

Then doom of malan'tai needs to now roll to hit each unit with his ridiculous 6" soul sucking B.S.

Q. Does Murderous Hurricane require the power to hit or
wound its target to affect them? (p37)
A. No, a targeted unit is affected by Murderous Hurricane
even if the power fails to hit or wound

You roll to hit and miss they still get the ground around them affected, you hit them but cause no wound they will get the ground around them affected.

Murderous hurricane has an 18" range, what's the problem? You can't possibly expect to be able to justify trying to hit someone from the other side of the table and pulling that rules interpretation out. It just doesn't make sense.

As soon as you measure the 18" and are out of range, the power is wasted and I would insist the person took their psychic test in case it has the negative affect, like you would if the player was using a plasma weapon

Kijamon wrote:Q. Does Murderous Hurricane require the power to hit or
wound its target to affect them? (p37)
A. No, a targeted unit is affected by Murderous Hurricane
even if the power fails to hit or wound

You roll to hit and miss they still get the ground around them affected, you hit them but cause no wound they will get the ground around them affected.

Murderous hurricane has an 18" range, what's the problem? You can't possibly expect to be able to justify trying to hit someone from the other side of the table and pulling that rules interpretation out. It just doesn't make sense.

As soon as you measure the 18" and are out of range, the power is wasted and I would insist the person took their psychic test in case it has the negative affect, like you would if the player was using a plasma weapon

If your target is out of range the power is not "wasted", you just auto-miss. But since MH doesn't need to hit in order for the difficult/dangerous to take effect, you can technically use it from an infinite distance.

Also Doom's 6" soul suck is not a PSA, it's not even a psychic power at all, it's just a special rule. (unless it was FAQed and I missed it).

AvatarForm wrote:
SW players seemingly need to jump through many more hoops to unleash these powers now.

In fact, JotWW needs a Psychic Test, a roll To Hit on the first model in the line (still under debate) and then the opponent "saves" by rolling Initiative on each model along the line.

3 hoops to jump through as opposed to a Psychic Test and saves, as most powers.

AvatarForm wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:The Zoanthrope really cries for all the "nerfed" SW players.

Please explain?

Kinda like the Zoanthrope needs to make a psychic test, roll to hit, roll to penetrate and then hope for a good result...with a range of 18", needing LOS, only affecting one target and not auto-killing the things it affects.

One should not cry about JotWW. Period.

lionfire wrote:Where does it say you have to make a psychic test for JotWW and roll for each unit hit by JotWW? Because honestly. That is freaking ridiculous.

Not "each unit." You roll one to hit. All hit or all miss.

There are several lengthy threads (complete with calls to handbags at dawn) on whether or not JottWW & Blood Lance need to roll to hit or hit automatically.

Jidmah wrote:What does JotWW have to do with this thread?

It is yet another SW power that requires the player to jump through hoops in order to successfully cast and do any damage.

If your target is out of range the power is not "wasted", you just auto-miss. But since MH doesn't need to hit in order for the difficult/dangerous to take effect, you can technically use it from an infinite distance.

Thats just ridiculous. How can you target someone if they are out of range?
As a SW player I will never use it that way

Because you pick a target before you check range. So it is quite common to target a unit that is out of range.

AvatarForm wrote:

Jidmah wrote:What does JotWW have to do with this thread?

It is yet another SW power that requires the player to jump through hoops in order to successfully cast and do any damage.

By "jump through hoops" you mean "roll to hit like every single other shooting attack in the game"? To conclude, you simply wanted to turn this in yet another JotWW-thread with every SW player not budging one bit from their position. Please don't.

You have to admit, they did change the rules.

The target-out-of-range is a loophole that absolutely works under the rules but doesn't make sense. It's like the pre-7th edition Skaven Army Book, where under the rules at the time you could declare a charge at a Warp-Lightning Cannon even if it was obviously out of range and make it automatically flee on the first turn. It's the sort of thing that will never be free of argument until it's either specifically FAQ'd or the ruleset changes.

Avatar, you dont find this ability overpowered? at all?
The FAQ did that to all psychic attacks, so dont single out your space wolves like they are victimized because they are anything but since their codex is absurdly broken anyway.
Jump through hoops? you are kidding I hope, like rollling to hit?! HOW ABSURD, you need to roll to hit like every other army. I forgot, you shouldn't need to roll to hit, your army is special.
You complain that you need to take a psychic test, as expected, then roll to hit, to instant death anything int he game with wounds. You can hit multiple targets and instant death them, quit whining.
I am only responding to you because of how much you are crying wolf for a strong ability that is even more broken by the FAQ. But yes, lets not get derailed and talk about JOTWW.

Regarding murderous hurricane, some armies do other things than sit there and fire for 5 turns, so some rely on movement. Like tyranids, daemons, orks, or any army that needs to be in melee. The fact you can pick a target anywhere on the board with LOS and make sure it is in difficult and dangerous for the entire turn is absolutely broken. To do that to an entire 30 man boyz squad is just plain cheesey. I dont care who you are, the fact you dont need to roll to hit, since you are probably out of range, and can make it unlikely that squad will touch you, is broken.
You assume every unit can rapid fire? ever play daemons or tyranids?

Kijamon, you are thinking about it logically, where the rest of us are finding the fault and way around the logic. Yes, if you are out of range of a psychic shooting attack, you should be unaffected, correct? No, for murderous hurricane the FAQ states, that if you miss, you are still effected. And yes, everyone who plays SW has unlimited range with this ability thus throwing it across the board with unlimited range. I assume matt ward wrote their FAQ, or some other incompetent sad excuse for a writer.

yeah kmd is correct, you only roll to hit once. but once again, lets not talk about JOTWW.

Avatar...you keep saying this jump through hoops crap?! everyone has to roll to hit with psychic shooting attacks, you really cant stop crying about JOTWW when it has no place in this thread.

BoTW, I wish it was that way, but in a competitive environment, the power will have unlimited range, and there is nothing we can do about it.
...oh the space wolf codex, it really amazes me how much stronger it is point wise, and power wise over almost any other codex in the game, and still, people whine about "jumping through hoops"

Arctik - they actually FAQ'd that one away - you couldnt declare a charge on something obviously out of range...

Clauss wrote:Avatar, you dont find this ability overpowered? at all?
The FAQ did that to all psychic attacks, so dont single out your space wolves like they are victimized because they are anything but since their codex is absurdly broken anyway.
Jump through hoops? you are kidding I hope, like rollling to hit?! HOW ABSURD, you need to roll to hit like every other army. I forgot, you shouldn't need to roll to hit, your army is special.
You complain that you need to take a psychic test, as expected, then roll to hit, to instant death anything int he game with wounds. You can hit multiple targets and instant death them, quit whining.
I am only responding to you because of how much you are crying wolf for a strong ability that is even more broken by the FAQ. But yes, lets not get derailed and talk about JOTWW.

Regarding murderous hurricane, some armies do other things than sit there and fire for 5 turns, so some rely on movement. Like tyranids, daemons, orks, or any army that needs to be in melee. The fact you can pick a target anywhere on the board with LOS and make sure it is in difficult and dangerous for the entire turn is absolutely broken. To do that to an entire 30 man boyz squad is just plain cheesey. I dont care who you are, the fact you dont need to roll to hit, since you are probably out of range, and can make it unlikely that squad will touch you, is broken.
You assume every unit can rapid fire? ever play daemons or tyranids?

Kijamon, you are thinking about it logically, where the rest of us are finding the fault and way around the logic. Yes, if you are out of range of a psychic shooting attack, you should be unaffected, correct? No, for murderous hurricane the FAQ states, that if you miss, you are still effected. And yes, everyone who plays SW has unlimited range with this ability thus throwing it across the board with unlimited range. I assume matt ward wrote their FAQ, or some other incompetent sad excuse for a writer.

yeah kmd is correct, you only roll to hit once. but once again, lets not talk about JOTWW.

Avatar...you keep saying this jump through hoops crap?! everyone has to roll to hit with psychic shooting attacks, you really cant stop crying about JOTWW when it has no place in this thread.

BoTW, I wish it was that way, but in a competitive environment, the power will have unlimited range, and there is nothing we can do about it.
...oh the space wolf codex, it really amazes me how much stronger it is point wise, and power wise over almost any other codex in the game, and still, people whine about "jumping through hoops"

You seem to forget that you get saving throws for both JotWW and MH... neither are instant death

If you're marines, the saves make the power more balanced. If you're orks, not so much.

Avatar. I forget nothing, the wounds from MH are worthless when compared to putting a 30 man boyz squad, or a 20 man bloodletter squad in difficult and dangerous. 3d6 str 3 sttacks are cool. But are much less daunting than an ability that has unlimited range and can put anything in danger of killing itself just for moving. JoTWW is a different topic, but if you insist to bring it up, you do not get a saving throw, you get an I test, where there are no saving throws! Which is much better than instant death, because eternal warrior means nothing then. So against the average I, which i would say is 4. you have a 1/3 chance to kill a model. Now against a marine or 2 that isnt important, but against expensive units, it is absurdly strong power, along with the rest of the rune priests psychic powers, he is waaaay too cheap points wise for what he can do.

Clauss wrote:Avatar. I forget nothing, the wounds from MH are worthless when compared to putting a 30 man boyz squad, or a 20 man bloodletter squad in difficult and dangerous. 3d6 str 3 sttacks are cool. But are much less daunting than an ability that has unlimited range and can put anything in danger of killing itself just for moving. JoTWW is a different topic, but if you insist to bring it up, you do not get a saving throw, you get an I test, where there are no saving throws! Which is much better than instant death, because eternal warrior means nothing then. So against the average I, which i would say is 4. you have a 1/3 chance to kill a model. Now against a marine or 2 that isnt important, but against expensive units, it is absurdly strong power, along with the rest of the rune priests psychic powers, he is waaaay too cheap points wise for what he can do.

What are the absurdly expensive low I units you refer to?

Anything nurgle, blood crusherrs are 40 pts a model (int 4), zoanathropes, venomthropes, carnifex, hive guard, tervigons, tyrannofex, ripperswarms, old one eye, an average MEQ of 1/3 chance of getting wasted no saves or anything. Oh also warbosses are only int 4, nobs are 3, mekboyz, weirdboyz, Never mind, the whole ork codex, and about half the tyranid codex, and a 1/4 of the daemon codex. Is that enough examples? I think instant killing a tervigon or 2 per turn per priest is a bit OP, you honestly disagree?
It equates to warp quake to daemons, stike squads simple ruin the chance of a daemon player really getting a fair game. The same goes for JOTWW on Tyranid lists that dont just spam genestealers. I ask again, you really think JOTWW and MH are balanced powers?

Clauss wrote:Anything nurgle, blood crusherrs are 40 pts a model (int 4), zoanathropes, venomthropes, carnifex, hive guard, tervigons, tyrannofex, ripperswarms, old one eye, an average MEQ of 1/3 chance of getting wasted no saves or anything. Oh also warbosses are only int 4, nobs are 3, mekboyz, weirdboyz, Never mind, the whole ork codex, and about half the tyranid codex, and a 1/4 of the daemon codex. Is that enough examples? I think instant killing a tervigon or 2 per turn per priest is a bit OP, you honestly disagree?
It equates to warp quake to daemons, stike squads simple ruin the chance of a daemon player really getting a fair game. The same goes for JOTWW on Tyranid lists that dont just spam genestealers. I ask again, you really think JOTWW and MH are balanced powers?

You know what I really hate?

Over-exaggerating statements presented as fact.

The fact is that out of the JAWs-fearing nids(non-JI), 12 of them have a up to a 50% chance to survive(I3 or less), 4 of them have an exactly 33.333% chance to fail(I 4), and 12 of them can only be killed by a roll of 6(I5+ or a MC with an I4+)

Initiative 4 means that you survive 66.666% of the time, that is a 2/3 survival rate.

The only armies that truly suffers against Jaws is Tau Infantry, And any necrons(Since every unit can be effected and very, very few have a 4+ I)

Yes, I truly do think JAWs is a fair and balanced power; You start off with a Psychic test that is passed 91.666% of the time(like most other powers), then can be cancelled(or made more difficult) A varying amount dependent on opponent (Psychic hoods 47.222% of the time, Rune priests 50%, Eldar and Nids reduce the chance to pass the test to begin with, etc), Then the line requires me to position myself into exactly the best place to remove more than a few models(smart opponents don't leave nice lines of troops), all while making sure said line does not touch any of my models(It does not just effect enemy models). Finally the enemies get to take their "I save", which the majority of models in the game have at least a 50% chance to pass(yes, even plague marines should only lose 1/2 of the models touched), but generally a 66.666% chance.

kmdl1066 wrote:

lionfire wrote:Where does it say you have to make a psychic test for JotWW and roll for each unit hit by JotWW? Because honestly. That is freaking ridiculous.

Not "each unit." You roll one to hit. All hit or all miss.

There are several lengthy threads (complete with calls to handbags at dawn) on whether or not JottWW & Blood Lance need to roll to hit or hit automatically.

Where is this rule officially? Because I can't find it. According to the codex, you draw the line 24" and your enemy rolls initiative for each unit touched by the line. He fails, he dies. The end.

The latest rulebook FAQ that says that a PSA needs to roll to hit. There have been many lengthy threads arguing about whether or not JotWW hits automatically or whether it needs to roll to hit.

It's up in the air tbh, GW calls JoTWW a PSA in the SW Faq, however it doesnt meet the criteria for a PSA in the rulebook faq.

IMO roll off

Q: When two special rules or effects contradict each
other how is this resolved? (p2)
A: Roll off using ‘The Most Important Rule!’.

JotWW IS A PSA - it says it is in the codex.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:It's up in the air tbh, GW calls JoTWW a PSA in the SW Faq, however it doesnt meet the criteria for a PSA in the rulebook faq.

IMO roll off

Q: When two special rules or effects contradict each
other how is this resolved? (p2)
A: Roll off using ‘The Most Important Rule!’.

Q: What psychic powers count as psychic shooting
attacks? (p50)
A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a
ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP
value) and any psychic power that specifically states
that it is a psychic shooting attack.

"As as psychic shooting attack, the Rune Priest may trace a straight line, [...]" (Codex: Space Wolves, pg. 37)

Now, would you please stop posting this nonsense of JotWW not being a PSA as if it were actual rules?

You are also violating the tenets of YMDC #1, #4 and #7.