Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

#1: when you draw the line throu a building,are all models on the line affected by it,even if they are on different floors?

#2: do necrons get their iwbb roll against jotww?

1 No, as that would require a plane, not a line.

2 No, iirc as the model is removed from the game.

kirsanth wrote:1 No, as that would require a plane, not a line.

2 No, iirc as the model is removed from the game.

kirsanth is right on both counts.

We'll Be Back says that instead of removing the Necron, lay it down instead. Jaws removes them, so they get a WBB.

I may be incorrect, but I thought the full sentence was 'instead of removing them as a casualty' or something along those lines. That is much different than what you have posted DarknessEternal.

You are correct, it is instead of being removed as a casualty.

They only real debate is whether models removed from the game are casualties.

Logically, it would seem so.
Technically, it seems not, as there are plenty of rules that removed models as casualties and a select few that simply remove them from the game.
The fact that they are literally different rules makes it hard to assume they are supposed to be the same.

kirsanth wrote:You are correct, it is instead of being removed as a casualty.

They only real debate is whether models removed from the game are casualties.

Logically, it would seem so.
Technically, it seems not, as there are plenty of rules that removed models as casualties and a select few that simply remove them from the game.
The fact that they are literally different rules makes it hard to assume they are supposed to be the same.

I'd vote that "remove them from the game" counts them as casualties. It's easier this way, as saying they are removed from the game by a different mechanic raises lots of other issues.

For example: Does this model count as killed for phase out purposes? If the model has an ability as long as it's alive, does it stay in effect? Does the model still count as part of the unit for 50% purposes? etc

It's way simpler if you simply treat models removed from the game as a casualty.

Those do not require the models to be casualties, just that the unit/army had its numbers reduced by a certain value.

Either way you read it the unit/army has been reduced by the same number.

Lukas the Trickster's Last Laugh allows WBB rolls.

Indeed, as the Last Laugh removes models as a casualty.

Which is what WBB requires.

Not sure how that helps anything, though.

Sorry.I misunderzstood my friend's description.He put it as everything in the combat is removed.

Deadshot wrote:Sorry.I misunderzstood my friend's description.He put it as everything in the combat is removed.

Hmm.
It only affects models in base to base contact, but they ARE "removed from play as casualties" (Emphasis mine). So depending on how he meant it, he may have been correct.

Nope.He said and I quote"everything in the combat with Lukas when killed is removed."

well he's wrong, check the rules out in his codex

I can see how a new player might misconstrue this, or if normaly when he uses it he's only fighting a few models.

Regardless, he was quite mistaken.

The first is a most definite no, however the second one I'm not sure on. If I draw a line on a 2D plane and it crosses models on 1st/2nd floors of a building

thanks.
back to question 1: can i aim at a model on the first/second/third floor of a building? are models under that floor affected?

HamHamLunchbox wrote:thanks.
back to question 1: can i aim at a model on the first/second/third floor of a building? are models under that floor affected?

Most likely works like a flamer. In other words, you pick the floor it works on, and it only affects models on that floor. (That is, if you pick 2cd/3rd floor, you can no longer target anything on the ground floor - whether the model is in the building or past it.) At least, that's how I'd play it.

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

HamHamLunchbox wrote:thanks.
back to question 1: can i aim at a model on the first/second/third floor of a building? are models under that floor affected?

Most likely works like a flamer. In other words, you pick the floor it works on, and it only affects models on that floor. (That is, if you pick 2cd/3rd floor, you can no longer target anything on the ground floor - whether the model is in the building or past it.) At least, that's how I'd play it.

A flamer is a Template weapon though, same with a LRBT Cannon

Do they consider the "line" a template?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

CiaranAnnrach wrote:

HamHamLunchbox wrote:thanks.
back to question 1: can i aim at a model on the first/second/third floor of a building? are models under that floor affected?

Most likely works like a flamer. In other words, you pick the floor it works on, and it only affects models on that floor. (That is, if you pick 2cd/3rd floor, you can no longer target anything on the ground floor - whether the model is in the building or past it.) At least, that's how I'd play it.

A flamer is a Template weapon though, same with a LRBT Cannon

Do they consider the "line" a template?

The TO at the GW Store in Memphis, GW's headquarters in the US, said that it acted like a pseudo-template, when asked if a roll-to-hit was required.

Sorry a TO at a GW store holds no swing here, we're looking for rules to back it up.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:Sorry a TO at a GW store holds no swing here, we're looking for rules to back it up.

Good luck. You won't find any.

The best solution to this particular problem you're going to find is to come up with a mutual agreement with you and your gaming buds, or if you are at a tournament, ask the TO.

Normally you can only target 1 floor at a time with markers/templates.I think it would be best to declare your floor target and procede as normal,as if it were a template..This saves any hassle of the planes vs lines arguement and already has rules so it is simple.

I thought the fluf/codex/rules (i do nothave codex with me so feel free to correct me if I am wrong) stated that JotWW opened a yawning chasm in the ground along the line drawn and anything which failed its Initiative test was sucked down into the yawning chasm to die/never be seen again etc.

If it cuts through a building, wouldnt models on all levels under the line be affected as the building shakes/breaks etc? And if they fail they fall to their doom into said yawning chasm which I assume then closes up as it has no terrain effect for the rest of the game?

No. You're turning a line (1 dimensional) into a plane (2 dimensional) - so youre breaking the rules.

Okay cool, just curious as I have never faced this problem before, so wondered what would happen, it is funny watching that carnifex lurking behind a building getting coaught out by JotWW though.

dantay_xv wrote:Okay cool, just curious as I have never faced this problem before, so wondered what would happen, it is funny watching that carnifex lurking behind a building getting coaught out by JotWW though.

Not for the Tyranid player.

Unless the carnifex passes the test and throws the rune priest down the god-damned chasm next turn.

Yeah, by rolling a 2 or lower?

Nobody said it was very likely.

Raythor wrote:Yeah, by rolling a 2 or lower?

Hey man, Rokkits CAN destroy LandRaiders