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Hello all,

My warhammer group is beginning our first campaign, which takes place on my IG's homeworld of Antiga. We'd like to combine air, land, sea, and space into this campaign. The only real issue we're having is with the planet itself. We'd like to come up with a system where every city gives you a certain amount of supplies, or people, or some such thing, for the owning player to do with it as he will. For example, the hive-city of Hammerfall is a very militiarized, industrial city. So while it wouldn't supply very much food, it's factories would be critical to building armored units.

I was wondering if anyone knows of a game that's similiar to what we're trying to do. Ideally, a game that lets you control cities, regions, and armies. We've got rules for all the individual battles that could take place, but we're all drawing a blank on the overall strategic command of Antiga. Since this fight will literally cover the surface and involve billions of troops and armored units, we're trying to break it into managable chunks by assigning resource points to each city.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
DaBestest

Planatary empires is what your after
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440320a&prodId=prod50017a
But not on the Aus site

That's sort of what I'm looking for. I'd just rather it not be from Games Workshop. I've paid them plenty. I'm also looking for it to be a bit more complex.

Any other ideas?

Have you played Dawn Of War: Dark Crusade? When my friends and I were contemplating this sort of thing we wanted a mixture of Dark Crusade and something more in-depth, like you said. The resource obviously makes sense but one thing I really liked about Dark Crusade was the inclusion of bonuses, almost like perks, such as Fury which allowed you to attack two regions before your turn ends, or Bulwark which makes it cost less to garrison troops in an unoccupied region you control.

Personally, an idea I liked that I came up with was being able to pay to purchase units every turn that you can add to places you have payed for a spaceport (your home region starts with one) and you drop troops there and move them as pre-determined regiments or as individual units as you see fit, but only one region per turn. Being able to buy extra spaceports allows you to drop them in different places to bolster your owned but unoccupied regions. Other buildings like that could be bought as well out of a global resource pool that goes towards everything from troops to armor to navies to buildings and fortifications, etc. Just rattling some off the top of my head that I thought up before for my IG army were:

1. Armor Industrial Sector: Increases global cap of heavy support for your army by one unit (That means you can field a whole 'nother squad of Russes or Basilisks in any army!)

2. Training Center: Any army which reaches the region with the center may add an additional infantry/troop squad to itself for half price due to the overwhelming amount of intense and fast-paced training for new soldiers.

3. Auspex Arrays: Player can spend resource to examine the details of an opponent's army in one region within a certain distance (we would assume that if the whole planet is in chaos and warring then it would be a little bit more difficult to gain intelligence and so while you will know where their armies are, you might not know the exact details of the army. We also contemplated adding in a spy system similar to a home-brew tabletop game which name eludes me although I keep thinking "Total War").

Things like this can be bought and the buildings we figured would be unique to each faction (A Guardsman can't exactly pick up a Necron relic and work it, now can he?) but although the enemy couldn't use the building, it would remain in place unless they want to destroy it completely by spending resource (probably half of what it cost to build).

Obviously the troops would be bought with the resource as well, and perhaps you might look into differentiating the resources into separate types because a highly industrial city like Hammerfall would be great at pumping out mechanical components and vehicles, but would you feed a Guardsman motor oil? In contrast, rolling grasslands ripe with agriculture and colonists would be a bulls-eye for conscriptors looking for fresh food to supply the troops as well as fresh troops eager to fight for the safety of their homeworld. Perhaps something similar to the Training Center like a recruiting force could be purchased to increase the troop resources.

However, this is not my campaign nor do my ideas need to be taken seriously at all, these are just things to throw out there you might consider. I kinda got the idea from Dark Crusade and expanded it to be more realistic in my mind. Is any of this helpful to you?

That's a pretty good breakdown. What we have so far, is a program called TerraGen, which is what Hollywood uses for background alien planets (Riddick is the best example, all TerraGen). I'm designing my planet, and eventually will write up a program that shows in in 3D with a grid overlay.

Each city, depending on size, would draw resources from a certain number of squares around it. Highways through squares would give you a bonus income from the squares it goes through.

What we have so far are:

Food (This would be the basic upkeep for any infantry army)
Fuel (Basic upkeep for any armored army)
Electricity (The invasion is Tau, and my friend was quick to point out they don't use "Barbarian combustion engines")
Raw Ore (1 Raw Ore could turn into 1 Lasgun batch, for example to create an infantry army)
Wood (Non permanent fortifications, may also be used to export for additional resources)
Population (Each army would require a certain amount of population before you can enlist them)
Water (There are several deserts on Antiga, so water became a factor. We'd probably let them store up to 20 or so per town, depending on size, maybe letting them add more water storage)

It seems to be solid on paper, but we're also trying to make sure we have contingency plans so arguements don't get out of hand.

As for buildings, our ideas so far are:

Barracks (Trains basic infantry)
Spec Ops (Elites and Fast Attack)
Light Manufactory (Armor 12 and below)
Heavy Manufactory (Armor 13 and above)
Areofactory (Allows flyers to be built)
Airfield (Allows missions with flyers alone)
Port (Light Naval Units)
Military Port (Heavy Naval Units)
Starport (Escorts for BFG)
Starship Slip (Up to Cruisers for BFG)

Battleships and battlecruisers cannot be rebuilt, thus adding a bit more weight to space battles than normal.

We're trying to get every kind of fight on Antiga. I've found rules for naval warfare, some ok rules for dogfighting, though if you have any better ones i'd love to hear it. We have regular warhammer, epic, BFG, and killteams. It's mostly just finishing Antiga on TerraGen, and getting some more defined rules. For instance, the Tau player wants to know how to poison my water supply. I'd like to know how to use guerrillas against him. We're also trying to find a way to judge popularity and civil order. Antigans are very independent, they don't even like the Imperium interferring with Antigan affairs. So, when the Tau land, they should have to contend not only with regular army, PDF, and militias, but guerrillas, riots, etc.


EDIT:
Anyone have an idea of how Tau naval warfare would work? Our theory was that if we couldn't find a suitable Tau-like way to play it, they could just be recruiting loyal(traitorous) humans and crewing normal ships that way.

I think this is a little complicated for your purposes. people might lose interest very quickly.


Supply, fuel, and power are probably sufficient for your resources.

supply is generic basic supplies. food, water, ammunition, and other sundries.

Fuel is used to power vehicles.

power is used in conjunction with supply to produce new units. some units will also need power in addition to supply.


I can come up with something more substantial in the morning.

Well, with a computer keeping track of all the supplies and such, we felt we could make it a bit more complicated. Also, this will be a twice a month thing. The overall campaign map will move along quickly, as we'll just keep doing turns on it until someone fights someone.

The main reason we added all the extra stuff was for fluffl. Me and my Tau player have already written the Antigan history up to the point where they control half the planet. But we both felt we'd be more invested in the story if we started from the beginning. In fact, we just played our first game last night, where a Tau kill-team tried to sneak into an Antigan command bunker to obtain military data. Had he succeeded, we would have moved on to a sabatoge or take and hold mission. As it stands, I swamped the kill team with guardsmen.

I'd love to hear the substantial bit too. And if it gets too complicated, your version's a very solid fallback plan.

Here is something more substantial. the basic rule is KISS(keep it simple stupid) While i love resource based games, other people don't and tend to lose interest. they want to get to fighting their battles, not managing resources.


an infantry/jump infantry/cavelry/war beast unit requires 1 point of supply per 5 members(or part thereof) per turn. if a unit doesn't recieve supply, they will have only limited ammo(they may only fire their weapons D3 times next battle. roll before the game) for the next battle. if they go without for 2 turns in a row, they will lose ammo completely and will not be able to shoot at all in their next battle. after 3 turns of deprivation, the squad will lose members each turn(lose D3 members per turn) until the unit no longer exists. if they are resupplied at all, any lost members are regained.

units with a 3+ armor save or better also require a point of power per turn(representing advanced electronic systems)


Vehicles and bikes require fuel and/or energy every turn. if a vehicle is deprived of fuel it won't be able to move. a vehicle that recieved no fuel(or power) will be unable to move during its next battle(it is simply deployed in a stantionary position and is treated as if it has been immobilized. note that it is NOT immobilized for the purposes of damage results or the squadron rules) if a vehicle recieves some fuel, but not all of its requirement, then it is reduced to 1/2 speed and may not move flat out. Bikes are reduced to 1/2 speed if they are not supplied.

highest Av facing

Av10: 1 fuel

Av11: 1 fuel

Av12: 2 fuel

Av13: 3 fuel

Av14: 4 fuel(those Lemun Russ are sure thirsty)

Tau vehicles require energy instead of Fuel. they treat fuel as supply.

Bikes require 1 fuel and 1 supply per 3 members.


Energy and Supply are also used to build/power defenses(turrets are all BS2)

Imperial defenses

TL-HB turret: 5 supply to build. 1 power every turn thereafter.

Lascannon turret: 5 supply. 2 power each turn.

Aegis defense line: free

Bastion(Av14 building with 4 HBs with BS2): 10 supply. 4 power per turn.

Tau defenses

Perimeter Defense Drones(5 Gun Drones): 5 supply. 1 power per turn.

Tau bunker(av13 building with either 4 TL-burst cannons or a single railgun(hammerhead version): 10 supply. 6 power per turn.

EMP defense turret(range 36", Str*, Ap*, blast, heavy 1. any vehicle underneath the blast suffers an automatic crew stunned result. models with a 3+ or better save must take a pinning test, even if fearless, to represent their electronic systems being jammed. otherwise, the gun has no effect) 8 supply, 4 power per turn.




Reinforcements:

reinforcements may be requisitioned to your army depending on the needs elsewhere in the galaxy that your faction currently has. all units are summoned with the roll of a dice to represent the slightly random ability of troop movement and recruiting ability. units may be any size and have any upgrades regardless of points cost, but penelties may apply to the dice roll. if a 7 or more is needed on the roll then it is impossable to get the reinforcement. a natural 1 always fails. all bonuses and penelties are cumulative. this method may seem odd at first, but the penelties even things out.

Each army gets 1 roll for reinforcements per star port per turn that they control. the unit being requested MUST be stated before the roll is made. all upgrades on the unit must be stated and marked down before rolling. you can't request a squad of guardsmen, roll a 6, and then decide you actually wanted a squadron of Lemun Russ.

Troops: 3+

Elites: 4+

Fast Attack: 4+

Heavy support: 5+

HQ: 6+

Modifiers:

you spent 5 points of supply: +1 ro roll(this may be stacked multiple times)

the unit requested has a DT: -1 to roll

the DT of the unit requested is a Landraider: -1 to roll

the unit's armor save is 3+ or better: -1 to roll

the vehicle's armor value is greater then 12: -1 to roll

the vehicle's armor value is 11 or less: +1 to roll

the vehicle squadron has more then 2 vehicles: -1 to roll


hope this helps a little.

Sorry to but in but you have rules for naval warfare? I would like to here them if you get a chance.

I know there is at least 1 fantesy based navel game out there. maybe they are just using adapted rules.

space could just be BFG.

Dragonfire and I have actually been working on something ourselves that seems fairly interesting as well, a slightly more realistic way to move your forces than region hopping like in Risk or Axis and Allies. We figured we'd (instead of regions) designate major cities in several different areas and rather than moving an army to the next region, you do it the old fashioned 40k way - with a tape measure. Blow up a picture of the map or draw one and have each army group you posses be able to move up to the max of its slowest unit... Unless you want to leave the slow units behind and let them catch up later. Different units move different speeds. Think of how much ground an Eldar jetbike squad could cover in the same time as an IG artillery regiment. We also thought about changing up what happens to units when they go off the board, so you can order a strategic retreat whenever you want. Perhaps a series of leadership tests once something exits the board. Anyways, the cities are what gains you the resources and bonuses and such, just like a region would in the system you have made so far, as it would draw all of the resources of all the surrounding area to it. Think about if you were a tank commander going through ww2 Germany. It's rife with natural resources to produce warmachines and weapons and such but unless you capture the city that has the production facilities, there's not much you would gain from it, and plus plenty of battles were fought over worthless territory, it just so happened that the two armies met and started fighting. Was there any value to the war effort of the fighting in Bastogne or Seelow? Not much other than for the Germans to try and stop the advance. Likewise, imagine if some country invaded America today. There's plenty of places that produce different things in different areas, and if the attacker captured one of the production facility cities they could start using it, but they don't necessarily have to take over all of America to use anything, and the other production facilities would still be under American control. This is the same for every country. Plus it adds another level of tactical play in the sense that you have to gauge the speed of certain units or keep them altogether, and you can also send out scouting parties and such to find out where the rest of your enemies are (provided you want to do that, we were thinking of playing double-blind where every player has their own map to fill in where they think there enemy is based on what they have figured out, but hey it's all up to how you plan on playing). I know this may be a bit of a stretch and a fairly large alteration from generic TBS like Risk, but it seemed like a good idea to us, and it seems to us that it makes it feel more 40k-ish, essentially you'd be playing a big game of 40k all the time instead of kinda swapping between Risk and 40k. It might help to keep the others who don't care for Risk style more interested and into the 40k feel. Dunno if this helps, just thought I'd throw it out there.

We tried to do a campaign like that, but it got a little messy.

@ Grey Templar:

My group loves these kind of games.

I like your ideas on regular warhammer games, and how supplies would affect them, but what about epic? There are, fluffly speaking, several large engagements in Antigan history, between hundreds of tanks and thousands of troops. Any ideas for epic scale supply rules?

@ Dragonfire:

I've found two rule sets for naval warfare. One is Harpoon, and the other is Axis & Allies, Victory At Sea. I haven't actually checked these rules out yet, but my hobby store owner swears by them.

Yeah, space combat will be either BFG or Firestorm. Whichever has more solid rules.

@ Yipyioh:

That's sortof our plan. We were thinking each city had an area of effect around it that it could draw resources from, and the only way to stop the resources coming into the city was either siege the city or physically plant an army on the grid that the resource is coming from.

for Epic, I would center it around supply dumps.

Everyone would get several supply dumps to start out with and there would be others scattered about. supply dumps would give a set amount each turn, but would run out of supplies on a D6 roll of 1.

new supply dumps would be placed via some sort of mechanic. for every army, a supply dump is dropped every 10 turns, but it scatters and could be in a bad position.

I have never played Epic so I don't know how well that would work.



I don't know what the Firestorm rules are, but the BFG rules are very solid.

I don't like GW's campaign rules so I made up my own. here is a copy if you want. I made the rules with the fleets that were participating so there are gaps. this was made for starting fleet sizes of 1750, but it could work with any size force.

DaBestestKlan wrote:That's a pretty good breakdown. What we have so far, is a program called TerraGen, which is what Hollywood uses for background alien planets (Riddick is the best example, all TerraGen). I'm designing my planet, and eventually will write up a program that shows in in 3D with a grid overlay.

Each city, depending on size, would draw resources from a certain number of squares around it. Highways through squares would give you a bonus income from the squares it goes through.

What we have so far are:

Food (This would be the basic upkeep for any infantry army)
Fuel (Basic upkeep for any armored army)
Electricity (The invasion is Tau, and my friend was quick to point out they don't use "Barbarian combustion engines")
Raw Ore (1 Raw Ore could turn into 1 Lasgun batch, for example to create an infantry army)
Wood (Non permanent fortifications, may also be used to export for additional resources)
Population (Each army would require a certain amount of population before you can enlist them)
Water (There are several deserts on Antiga, so water became a factor. We'd probably let them store up to 20 or so per town, depending on size, maybe letting them add more water storage)

It seems to be solid on paper, but we're also trying to make sure we have contingency plans so arguements don't get out of hand.

As for buildings, our ideas so far are:

Barracks (Trains basic infantry)
Spec Ops (Elites and Fast Attack)
Light Manufactory (Armor 12 and below)
Heavy Manufactory (Armor 13 and above)
Areofactory (Allows flyers to be built)
Airfield (Allows missions with flyers alone)
Port (Light Naval Units)
Military Port (Heavy Naval Units)
Starport (Escorts for BFG)
Starship Slip (Up to Cruisers for BFG)

Battleships and battlecruisers cannot be rebuilt, thus adding a bit more weight to space battles than normal.

We're trying to get every kind of fight on Antiga. I've found rules for naval warfare, some ok rules for dogfighting, though if you have any better ones i'd love to hear it. We have regular warhammer, epic, BFG, and killteams. It's mostly just finishing Antiga on TerraGen, and getting some more defined rules. For instance, the Tau player wants to know how to poison my water supply. I'd like to know how to use guerrillas against him. We're also trying to find a way to judge popularity and civil order. Antigans are very independent, they don't even like the Imperium interferring with Antigan affairs. So, when the Tau land, they should have to contend not only with regular army, PDF, and militias, but guerrillas, riots, etc.


EDIT:
Anyone have an idea of how Tau naval warfare would work? Our theory was that if we couldn't find a suitable Tau-like way to play it, they could just be recruiting loyal(traitorous) humans and crewing normal ships that way.

The Tau use the air caste for naval and in-atmosphere warfare.

Also, Tau Do not need anything like as much water as humans, so that should be factored in.

@ the guerillas and riots, that is one of the primary tau strengths: the water caste. Add a contingency where the IG can conscript, but it decreases civil order, and where the Tau can coerce the citizenry, without civil unrest, but with less humans joining them.

Another thing to do is add a "commissariat intervention" where civil unrest is temporarily improved, but only temporarily, something to do right before an invasion or when a city is on the verge of collapse.

Antiga doesn't have a commisariat corps.

Also, as Antigans are aggresively independent, and they're definitely not known for their diplomatic finesse.


EDIT:

The guerillas and riots are part and parcel of the campaign we want. The Tau will start out with a vastly superior force, and, depending on the early kill teams, Antiga is either completely unprepared, has started preparing, or is fully prepared for a planetary invasion. Most likely, the Tau will be landing on Summerside with only local PDF, police, and Elector's Guard to stop them. Snowside, as the production-heavy side of Antiga, would start out unprepared but could quickly muster forces to counter the invasion. However, there is no food on Snowside, so the Tau's objective becomes to control the cities on Summerside long enough to starve out the Antigan armies, while the Antigan's primary goal is to take back some food production, lest they face food riots of their own on Snowside.

The riots and guerillas can work both ways, it just depends on how many resources the governing force is spending on the population. Give them food and jobs, and most Antigans would tolerate an occupation, at least until liberation forces were near. Don't feed them, and they'd rise up in protest, halting all production in that city. But, spend too much on the civilians and not the military and you might as well have not even taken the city, as Antigan liberation forces, at least the ones under my personal command, will strike hard at any solid target.

We've also got Orks, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, a secondary guard army sent by a nearby ally, Gravos, Battle Sisters, and just for fun, some Necrons. Can anyone think up some unique items, buildings, missions or resources for those races?

Thanks for all your help by the way, DakkaDakka, your advice has proven invaluble in planning this campaign. We've already made several adjustments based on this thread.