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So, anyone get a copy yet?

I hear there are a lot of interesting changes, and suggestions for integrating them into the other systems.

I’m looking forward to its full release... probably September some time. I’ve nice to know that the book is finally out though. Looking forward to getting my copy.

As far as the changes to the rules go, the changes are all logical extensions of concepts originated in other 40K RPG’s.

Take Concussive as an example.

In Deathwatch, Concussive weapons are a God-damned nightmare to fight against. Did they hit you? Did they get lots of DoS on the roll To Hit? Well guess what, you’re going to be stunned, and there’s very little you can do about it.

In Black Crusade though those sorts of rules are given a value, so Concussive (2), Concussive (3) and so on. That number represents the modifier. So a Concussive (1) weapon is only a Toughness Test at -10, rather than a near impossible to pass -40 to -50 if they rolled well on their To Hit roll. This concept isn’t new – I think Deathwatch started it by doing it to Toxic – but it’s applied to far more weapons now, and balances things out nicely.

Another nice change is Primitive (or Primary) weapons. No longer do they double the AP of whomever you are attacking. Now they are just the logical opposite of the Proven rule. With Proven, you have a number (eg. Proven (4)), where the number value is the minimum you can roll. So a Proven (4) weapon counts all D10 damage results of 1, 2 and 3 as 4. The new Primitive rule has the same number, but it represents the maximum that a weapon can roll. So a Primitive (7) weapon counts all rolls of 8, 9 and 10 as a 7. Elegant, simple, and based off of an existing mechanic.


The changes to the way attacks are made is also great. Standard Attacks being +10 (+20 when you aim) makes a massive difference, especially when combined with the fact that Full-Auto is now -10BS, and Semi-Auto a flat +0. Means there’s real choice – go for the easy single shot, or the more difficult multi-shot. And they’re all half actions! And, better yet, HTH combat is now tied into the same system, so Swift Attack is at +0, half action, and you get an extra hit per 2 DOS. Lightning Attack is just like Full-Auto, sitting at -10 To Hit, a half action, and you get an extra hit for every DOS. Aligning the way shooting and HTH works is fantastic, and it means that skills like Dodge and Parry now work in the same way (ie. for each DOS you get with a Parry/Dodge, you avoid one of the hits). Stops the problem the other three games have where someone with Lightning Attack and Two-Weapon Wielder (Melee) can make four attacks at you and you can only ever Dodge or Parry one of them.

So how does 2 weapon wielder and ambidextrous work with lightning attack now?

Lightning attack for each hand?

H.B.M.C. wrote:... and it means that skills like Dodge and Parry now work in the same way (ie. for each DOS you get with a Parry/Dodge, you avoid one of the hits). Stops the problem the other three games have where someone with Lightning Attack and Two-Weapon Wielder (Melee) can make four attacks at you and you can only ever Dodge or Parry one of them.

I thought this was how Dodge & Parry always worked. For every DoS you got an additional dodge/parry against that individual for the duration of the combat. IE some fool full autos onto your PC, the PC could, in theory, dodge each hit from the full auto, granted his Dodge roll had enough DoS.

That is how it worked for ranged attacks that can hit multiple times (full auto), but since lightning attack is three separate attacks, requiring three separate dodges.

Exactly. Now that Swift and Lightning Attack function just like Semi- and Full-Auto (respectively), Dodge and Parry have the same sort of effect in HTH as they do against ranged attacks. It's an elegant system that works quite well.

So how does it work with 2 weapons? Just like 2 weapons would work for ranged I assume? You can make a lightning attack with both?

daedalus-templarius wrote:So how does it work with 2 weapons? Just like 2 weapons would work for ranged I assume? You can make a lightning attack with both?

No idea on what black crusade says, but previous games allowed for one extra attack when you make the full action to swing, so 4 attacks total. However, attacking with both is covered by dual strike, which is NASTY when it hits.

Well, dual strike is attacking with both hands simultaneously.

This is like, each hand gets to make a lightning attack, since you have a weapon capable of such in both hands.

Also, what do you guys think about distributing stats for characters at character creation? I'm not very fond of the randomization that is currently there, as I much prefer the setup in fallout, etc.

Points-buy systems are open for abuse, and it's where you get the concept of 'dump stats' (ie. "my character is a sword-twirling death machine... I don't need Intelligence or Fellowship, so I'll pump more points into WS and Ag!"). Beyond that there's nothing inherently wrong with doing it that way.

We've mostly done the random style, and if you don't like the overall stats, just roll 'em again. And when I say roll them again, I mean roll them all again, not just the stat I didn't like. We've set up a random number generator in Excel to do it for us, so I can roll every stat again just by hitting F9.

Plus sometimes having the "play it as it lies" character can be fun. The DH game we played on Saturday contained an Assassin where the player rolled for everything and just left it - no re-rolls, no nothing. Everything from the stats, to the character's name - random for everything. It made it more fun IMO.

Yea rolling stats again with the press of a button wouldn't be too bad. I guess I'll see how distribution works out first.

juraigamer wrote:That is how it worked for ranged attacks that can hit multiple times (full auto), but since lightning attack is three separate attacks, requiring three separate dodges.

Oh, well we have been treading lightning attack like that always. At least at our table. Didnt make sense the other way. Since the dodge success# counts as the ability to dodge attacks from a specific source. That source was always the combatant.

Glad to know they got their house in order!

Listening to this podcast, Tyrant's Due, where they are reviewing Black Crusade.

Looking forward to picking up the book and retrofitting all the rules to my DH games.

Careful with that. We were playing with Rank 6 characters on Saturday, and even they were failing more Tests than they were passing. If you're going to start imposing the -10 for Full-Auto on lowly DH characters, then you could be in for a world of fail!