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My first, and only, issue of White Dwarf is number 372, the one with the Fantasy Slaanesh thing on the cover, getting slain by a Bretonnian knight. Okay, I've only started wargaming recently!

I've read through it many times, and to me it always appears a very professionally-made, informative, and yet manages to get in enough sales and advertising features. It covers all three of GW's games in various different ways, and I quite enjoyed the Kabals of the Dark Eldar and the Spearhead Tactica, finding them interesting and informative. It's got explanations, good model showcases, and I also think the "Directory" section is rather useful. I found a shop thanks to that when I was on holiday.

Compared to another magazine I read, the SA Drums & Percussion, it screams professionalism, whereas the drum magazine doesn't really. Compared to WD, it's rather sloppily done, packed with unnecessary ads, and not well edited or proofread. It's still only a small-community and readership mag, but the standard differences are there.

So, I'm rather surprised at why everyone is hating on WD... I mean, what did it use to have that made it so much better than it is today? Or is it purely the price (because I do admit it's rather steep, at least at my FLGS)?

I'm not sure if it's just hatorade or something else. I just don't know what WD used to be like...

It's mostly looking back at what WD used to be.
It started before GW even sold much by way of games, and was an semi-independant RPG mag, mostly.
Then, when Warhammer and similar games came out of GW, it was full of scenarios, hints and tips for modelling, rules updates and additions, etc.
Now, it's just battle reports (usually resulting in a win for the most recent army), 'articles' showcasing the latest releases, and the odd section like the clubs bit.

It's mostly just an overpriced advert now, with a list of shops in the back.

Skinnereal wrote:It's mostly looking back at what WD used to be.
It started before GW even sold much by way of games, and was an semi-independant RPG mag, mostly.
Then, when Warhammer and similar games came out of GW, it was full of scenarios, hints and tips for modelling, rules updates and additions, etc.
Now, it's just battle reports (usually resulting in a win for the most recent army), 'articles' showcasing the latest releases, and the odd section like the clubs bit.

It's mostly just an overpriced advert now, with a list of shops in the back.

QFT, and the shop list is really incomplete. Doesn't even list France as a country with GW stores.

It is mostly just a matter of what a good magazine it was. Much more informative, and varied.

Okay, now I'm starting to get the picture... daymn, I think I saw a WD ages ago which had a couple of scenarios in it... That would be cool.

But I guess same old same old, GW just keeps flogging less for more.

Yeah, WD used to have all sorts of huge rules updates/additions, scenarios and huge fluff sections. New rules and units used to consistently be added via WD, errata and FAQ's done consistently, new missions, that sort of things. It was an actual gaming supplement costing half of what it does now, not simply an advertisement for whatever is coming out that month

Sam__theRelentless wrote:Compared to another magazine I read, the SA Drums & Percussion, it screams professionalism, whereas the drum magazine doesn't really. Compared to WD, it's rather sloppily done, packed with unnecessary ads, and not well edited or proofread. It's still only a small-community and readership mag, but the standard differences are there....

Those ads are one of the things keeping most magazines going.

Believe me when I say that WD is pretty unusual in not needing to carry ads for other companies stuff!

Carmine the Wolf wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:Compared to another magazine I read, the SA Drums & Percussion, it screams professionalism, whereas the drum magazine doesn't really. Compared to WD, it's rather sloppily done, packed with unnecessary ads, and not well edited or proofread. It's still only a small-community and readership mag, but the standard differences are there....

Those ads are one of the things keeping most magazines going.

Believe me when I say that WD is pretty unusual in not needing to carry ads for other companies stuff!

This does not, in fact, improve the quality of the content though. I would rather buy a magazine that was independant of a games company and carried ads than a magazine that is, in effect, an advert for the owning company's products. This is what WD has become, I feel.

EDIT: I think I may have misinterpreted your comment here, Carmine, apologies. I shall leave it as was though, as I don't want to seem like I'm doing some kind of bait and switch.

I've been looking over some of the *really* old WD's, the ones with D&D articles, RPG stuff, and ads for other game companies and whatnot.

Definitely highly silly

However it also illustrates how much the magazine has changed. It went from a general tabletop gaming magazine, to one exclusively about GW products but acting as an essential gaming and background supplement, to basically an ad for the whatever the latest kit/book is with minimal gaming/background material.

Sam__theRelentless wrote:Compared to another magazine I read, the SA Drums & Percussion, it screams professionalism, whereas the drum magazine doesn't really. Compared to WD, it's rather sloppily done, packed with unnecessary ads, and not well edited or proofread. It's still only a small-community and readership mag, but the standard differences are there.

So, I'm rather surprised at why everyone is hating on WD... I mean, what did it use to have that made it so much better than it is today? Or is it purely the price (because I do admit it's rather steep, at least at my FLGS)?

I'm not sure if it's just hatorade or something else. I just don't know what WD used to be like...

Those ads in Drums & Percussion are not unnecessary. They are what pays for the publication of such a small circulation mag. Since White Dwarf is a GW house mag it is just one big advertisement for GW games, so doesn't have any other ads in it.

That said I know I don't hate White Dwarf. I still have a subscription and I still read it cover to cover every month and enjoy doing so. That enjoyment is why I still am happy with it. Yes it did start out as more of a generic gaming magazine with a lot of really cool content. Showing my age here, but the first issue of WD I ever got was #12 or so. Lots of interesting content. It has definitely gone through changes through the years and around issue 100 or so really started to become the house organ it is now focusing almost completely on Games Workshop games and supporting them. The focus of the magazine has changed somewhat as the market has changed too. For example, online regularly updated FAQs preclude the need to print them in White Dwarf anymore.

I think if I miss anything it is the old Heavy Metal concept which had multiple pages throughout the magazine with minis painted by the staff Heavy Metal team *and* a section that detailed what colors and techniques were used on all the minis. Now we get a single special figure every now and then that they detail completely on its painting process. Not as interesting to me. I can paint well, but can't paint to the same standard as a bunch of people who get paid to do nothing but paint minis to an amazing standard, so the detailed tour of the 14 different layers of painting, shading, washing, glazing, etc. that go on the figs in these articles is useless to me. I liked seeing a bunch of figs and being given an idea of how I could somewhat replicate the appearance of them.

As with everything else YMMV and if you like the magazine and find it a good read then keep reading.

Skriker

It used to be great, now it's not great. The last few issues have been taking some steps in the right direction though, with the new Cities of Death strategems, missions, and FAQ, and with the Sisters codex. Even if the codex isn't so great, it's still real content in the magazine.

If you want an example of a company's magazine done right, look at Wargaming Illustrated.

It was bought by Battlefront, the guys who make Flames of War, but it hasn't become FoW centric. In fact, looking at the latest issue (which cover's Napoleon's disastrous invasion of Russia), we can see that 2 out of the 12 'main' articles have anything to do with Flames of War.

The first is a continuation and conclusion of a Cassino 'Infantry Aces' campaign. The second (and this is made of pure win) is a freaking list of free army briefings that they have on their website. That's right - they're saying 'Sure, you can buy our books, but here's a bunch of perfectly usable, free army lists that you can use as well'.

I like WD, albeit it is a bit promotional. In the 2 years Im in the hobby I have now around 12 WD's ^^

The list was usefull, and its full of ideas and painting guides!
The battlereports are fun too, and I like watching new mini's

htj wrote:

Carmine the Wolf wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:Compared to another magazine I read, the SA Drums & Percussion, it screams professionalism, whereas the drum magazine doesn't really. Compared to WD, it's rather sloppily done, packed with unnecessary ads, and not well edited or proofread. It's still only a small-community and readership mag, but the standard differences are there....

Those ads are one of the things keeping most magazines going.

Believe me when I say that WD is pretty unusual in not needing to carry ads for other companies stuff!

This does not, in fact, improve the quality of the content though. I would rather buy a magazine that was independant of a games company and carried ads than a magazine that is, in effect, an advert for the owning company's products. This is what WD has become, I feel.

EDIT: I think I may have misinterpreted your comment here, Carmine, apologies. I shall leave it as was though, as I don't want to seem like I'm doing some kind of bait and switch.

Cause confusion, I did!

I was trying to say what Striker says in a far more expansive manner in his post.

Ah, as I (a little too late) suspected. Thanks for clearing that up.

Sam- I don't hate White Dwarf. And neither, I think, do the majority of folks in the hobby. One of the things I have started to figure out is that the most vocal segment of the population in the hobby are also frequently the minority. CS Goto hate, Matt Ward hate, Ultramarines hate, White Dwarf hate, Games Workshop hate, all of it. For the most part, the people who are content with White Dwarf don't feel compelled to go on the internet and talk about how much they love it, but the people who hate the magazine do. At least, some of them do.

That being said, I don't buy White Dwarf. It's too expensive, and gives me nothing. If it still had optional rules, scenarios, that sort of thing, then maybe I would pick one up now and again. I will buy next month's issue for the SoB rules, but that's just so I can have an idea what other people are doing.

Carmine the Wolf wrote:

Sam__theRelentless wrote:Compared to another magazine I read, the SA Drums & Percussion, it screams professionalism, whereas the drum magazine doesn't really. Compared to WD, it's rather sloppily done, packed with unnecessary ads, and not well edited or proofread. It's still only a small-community and readership mag, but the standard differences are there....

Those ads are one of the things keeping most magazines going.

Believe me when I say that WD is pretty unusual in not needing to carry ads for other companies stuff!

Which is why it costs 9 fething dollars per issue!!!

If you want an example of a good company specific periodical, go check out No Quarter. It has rules, background, previews, thought-provoking discussion (which doesn't boil down to "This is what I think, and I'm right and you're wrong because I'm Jervis Johnson"), and hobby articles. Way way way better than the rag that is White Dwarf.

Jimsolo pretty much has it, most people don't hate WD they are just disapointed.

For its cost it gives you very little, no regular chapter approved or warhammer chronicles, very few scenarios and mostly predictable battle reports. Its only consistant quality piece is 'eavy metal (and i don't mean the full page spread on the new kit's fully painted sprue)

It used to be that army lists and proper hobby stuff like the SoB codex was the norm now it is the specs of gold you have to mine for.

It says alot about a magazine that has its target audiance being able to read the 5 to 10 pages of the magazine that actually is interesting to them in about 5 minutes while in store.

infinite_array wrote:If you want an example of a company's magazine done right, look at Wargaming Illustrated.

It was bought by Battlefront, the guys who make Flames of War, but it hasn't become FoW centric. In fact, looking at the latest issue (which cover's Napoleon's disastrous invasion of Russia), we can see that 2 out of the 12 'main' articles have anything to do with Flames of War.

The first is a continuation and conclusion of a Cassino 'Infantry Aces' campaign. The second (and this is made of pure win) is a freaking list of free army briefings that they have on their website. That's right - they're saying 'Sure, you can buy our books, but here's a bunch of perfectly usable, free army lists that you can use as well'.

I love Wargames Illustrated and have a subscription to it too. The only thing is that because the mag is printed in New Zealand/Australia the subscription price is almost twice what the price of my WD subscription is. That is a little painful. I did get a $35 box of minis for free when I signed up for my sub, so that helps relieve some of the pain. I don't remember the White Dwarf switch over very well. Anyone recall when it started becoming more and more of a GW/Citadel advert mag than a general gaming mag?? Was it a sudden switch or a gradual one?? Just curious.

Skriker

WD started becoming GW only back in the 80's after Warhammer came out and GW actually made games from its own IP rather than stuff like its old judge dredd and lotr mini's. It started becoming an advert mag devoid actual gaming content for the most part 2004ish and really bad around 2006.

My first WD had a gorkamorka battle report, a 40k battle report where a bunch of praetonians holding off a farm from waves of Adrian Woods orks, had a tale of 4 gamers for fantasy, tonnes of little but informative articles. It was like more of a collage than a magazine. That was the golden age.

Now its a catalog, with flavor of the month battle reports with showcase armies rather than beautifully converted armies.

Vaktathi wrote:WD started becoming GW only back in the 80's after Warhammer came out and GW actually made games from its own IP rather than stuff like its old judge dredd and lotr mini's. It started becoming an advert mag devoid actual gaming content for the most part 2004ish and really bad around 2006.

I guess my request wasn't exactly specific enough. I started reading white dwarf around issue #12 and the on for the next 20 or 30 issues or so...then got away from it until around issue 100 or so and by then it was very much the house mag. Really curious if it started shifting that way or if one issue was the old way and the next was 100% citadel. Pretty much have had every issue from 104 on to the present in my hands at one time or another, so I'm really looking for specifics for the change in the early 80s if anyone is famliiar with them.

Skriker

Oh sorry no, don't know the exact change dates, I could look for another WD archive (mine was lost in a reformat sadly) but that'd take a while.

Well, my original post might have been a bit harsh, but the general vibes I got from the community was maybe not hate but indeed disappointment.

Is it because of the price as well? Has it also been rising unnecessarily like other GW products? Because I know my FLGS has absolutely no influence on the price, not even the shipping changes things. And it's relatively expensive, it costs 50 Rand whereas and ordinary magazine like that you would expect to cot something like 30 Rand.

I'm pretty sure it was exactly issue 100 where WD went fully GW product-only. Before that it had increasing GW content after Warhammer was released but was still a decent rpg/fantasy battle magazine.

I miss Chapter Approved.

DarknessEternal wrote:I miss Chapter Approved.

Well then good news! The Sisters of Battle White Dwarf Codex has the words, "Chapter Approved!" attached! : D

If only they would bring back Thrud the Barbarian
WD is lacking a comic strip. It'd be yet another advert, but it's something.

Overpriced for what I am getting. The freaking thing should just be online at this point.

Holy_doctrine wrote:Overpriced for what I am getting. The freaking thing should just be online at this point.

Although of course you can torrent it, it's just not the same....