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The thing I dilike is the battle reports. Well, not the reports themselves, but the fact that just out of coincidence the models that just came out nearly ALWAYS perform great, wich makes people suspect that the reports are faked. Another thing is the badly made army-lists, for example uising a sag, having 7 pts leftz and not bying a ammo runt for the mek (stupid)

DarknessEternal wrote:I miss Chapter Approved.

Indeed, things you used to get:
1.design your own tank
2.design your own tyranid monster
3.creature feature
4.abhumans
etc

and even as a person who only buys 40k i used to love Warhamer chronicles, the goblin spiecies list, goblar army and lustria tribes lists were awesome

Its the whole thing of value for money, back in the day WD used to be value for money, you got so much stuff in them, i remember back many years when the old bretonians got some new knight releases so WD gave away a cardstock game called Full Tilt (a jousting game to play with the knights).

At present (if you count the SoB WD as a deviation rather than the norm) if you take that £4.50 and get an Empire magazine, you will be occupied for hours with well written articles that aren't massively biased, with WD its about 5 minutes of flicking through then 20 minutes of reading and you are done.

if GWkeeps having WD printing codexs liek the latest SoB and such I will subscribe for sure... btu till it becomes the norm I'll be picking up just the issues that have codexes in them

Seriously? WD Codices are pretty much the worst thing that could happen to an army, aside from being squatted. A dozen glossy pages, half of whom are photos, can never replace a ~60 page book filled with tons of explanations, background and neat little stories.

I could perfectly see them continueing to release updates such as the Vampire Counts one (which, ironically, also received more love) this way, though.

Basically, I would wish for WD to bring back the old Chapter Approved articles, the old scenarios, the old background blurbs. So much cool stuff that was contained in the older issues!

Lynata wrote:Seriously? WD Codices are pretty much the worst thing that could happen to an army, aside from being squatted. A dozen glossy pages, half of whom are photos, can never replace a ~60 page book filled with tons of explanations, background and neat little stories.

I could perfectly see them continueing to release updates such as the Vampire Counts one (which, ironically, also received more love) this way, though.

Basically, I would wish for WD to bring back the old Chapter Approved articles, the old scenarios, the old background blurbs. So much cool stuff that was contained in the older issues!

I think i didn't explain that enough. I don't expect GW to stop makign codexs and jsu tmake it so you can use the WD as a codex. what I mean is for those of us who do not play an army but have intrest in reading abotu thier units and basic abilities to pick up WD, subscribe to it and see basic points costs, stats, weapons they use. the basics... kinda just the armory and unit selection sections. heck don't include some rules so people need a codex to seriosly play; that's cool I just would like a legal way to get read other armies costs and units without having to buy a new codex on an army i will never own

The reason why people hate it is because hating anything GW thinks of (let alone makes) is "cool".

Lynata wrote:Seriously? WD Codices are pretty much the worst thing that could happen to an army, aside from being squatted. A dozen glossy pages, half of whom are photos, can never replace a ~60 page book filled with tons of explanations, background and neat little stories.

I could perfectly see them continueing to release updates such as the Vampire Counts one (which, ironically, also received more love) this way, though.

Basically, I would wish for WD to bring back the old Chapter Approved articles, the old scenarios, the old background blurbs. So much cool stuff that was contained in the older issues!

Yes, clearly a WD codex is intended to be permanent.

/sarcasm

Most shops give out catalogues for free.

I can walk into my FLGS, flip through the magazine for as long as I like, and then put it back.

I think I see the point, if it was a good magazine, then I would want to buy it and take it home.

whatwhat wrote:Most shops give out catalogues for free.

And your point is...?

Well, WD isn't a catalogue YET

Sam__theRelentless wrote: Has it also been rising unnecessarily like other GW products?

Yes. Back in 3rd ed, it cost $4-5 USD a month. This had conversion articles, fan army coverage, rules, freebies, multiple bat reps occasionally, Bat reps using the Staffs armies instead of the studio armies, useful tactics articles written by freelancers, lots of fluff(even short stories).

Gradually, the price increased to the current $9 USD while cutting out the majority of the non-straight out of the box assembly, non-studio painting hobby articles, interesting and humorous freelance articles, regular rules entries, anything that made the magazine worth its cost. In essence, they're charging us more for less content.

infinite_array wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Most shops give out catalogues for free.

And your point is...?

White Dwarf is a catalogue.

So same as the battleforces and finecast, then!

whatwhat wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Most shops give out catalogues for free.

And your point is...?

White Dwarf is a catalogue.

No, it isn't.

Oh, and let's not forget about the rise in subscription pricing while taking away the free subscription incentives to be replaced by a PURCHASABLE model.

coolyo294 wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

infinite_array wrote:

whatwhat wrote:Most shops give out catalogues for free.

And your point is...?

White Dwarf is a catalogue.

No, it isn't.

When 90% of the magazine is geared towards selling more of the company's product it may as well be.

G00fySmiley wrote:I think i didn't explain that enough. I don't expect GW to stop makign codexs and jsu tmake it so you can use the WD as a codex. what I mean is for those of us who do not play an army but have intrest in reading abotu thier units and basic abilities to pick up WD, subscribe to it and see basic points costs, stats, weapons they use. the basics...

Oooh, gotcha. Sorry for getting you wrong there - yes, I think I'd actually like that as well. Like some sort of "army showcase" on 2-4 pages with bits of fluff, a few pictures and a short table describing rules that make that force "special" compared to other armies.

WD211 actually did just that with the SoB shortly before the 2E Codex was released, in order to drum up some interest I guess.

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, clearly a WD codex is intended to be permanent.

Who is talking about permanence? I was referring to a proper book likely being delayed because we're "up to date" now.
GW wanted to update all armies before 6E, so obviously without a rushed WD "cop-out" they would have put a bit more work into it, even if it had taken them another year.

It's not that I don't appreciate this "update" at all, it's the feeling that this is going to be "it" for the foreseeable future. A feeling born out of watching what the company did with the Sisters over the past 10 years. We have many differences in opinion, but even you should have some understanding for such a reaction.

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, clearly a WD codex is intended to be permanent.

Who is talking about permanence? I was referring to a proper book likely being delayed because we're "up to date" now.

Kanluwen wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Yes, clearly a WD codex is intended to be permanent.

Who is talking about permanence? I was referring to a proper book likely being delayed because we're "up to date" now.

So where's the Dark Angels, Black Templars, Necrons, and Chaos Space Marines White Dwarf codices?

Your "reference" is pure and simple speculation.

GW wanted to update all armies before 6E, so obviously without a rushed WD "cop-out" they would have put a bit more work into it, even if it had taken them another year.

Since the book is supposed to be written by Phil Kelly, who didn't work on the White Dwarf "cop-out"--there's nothing at all other than YOU thinking there's a delay.

It's not that I don't appreciate this "update" at all, it's the feeling that this is going to be "it" for the foreseeable future. A feeling born out of watching what the company did with the Sisters over the past 10 years.

You mean kept an underselling, all metal range in stock and production for those 10 years--rather than simply making them cast up to order?

Yeah. What a tragedy.
All reliable reports are that the Sisters are on track for a launch with 6th edition releasing. There's even fairly substantial reports that they'll actually be the Imperial force in the starter set.

We have many differences in opinion, but even you should have some understanding for such a reaction.

I have no understanding for kneejerk reactions or complaints that are essentially baseless speculation.
When Jes Goodwin and Phil Kelly have stated that they're working on Sisters, that's all you actually need to know.
When they say they're in the final stages of development--that's all you need to know.

whatwhat wrote:When 90% of the magazine is geared towards selling more of the company's product it may as well be.

Oh my God. How dare they showcase something releasing that month. Those devious, underhanded fiends!

"Catalogs" are not magazines "geared towards selling more of the company's product".

A catalog is a magazine that is published, exclusively, to sell a company's product. There will be no information, no painting showcases, etc like you see in White Dwarf.

It will be nothing but descriptions of the product, pricing information, and parts numbers.

Mmm, that's refreshing to see someone not being all doom-and-gloom in regards to Sisters.

It makes the pain lessen. ^_^

Kanluwen wrote:

whatwhat wrote:When 90% of the magazine is geared towards selling more of the company's product it may as well be.

"Catalogs" are not magazines "geared towards selling more of the company's product".

A catalog is a magazine that is published, exclusively, to sell a company's product. There will be no information, no painting showcases, etc like you see in White Dwarf.

It will be nothing but descriptions of the product, pricing information, and parts numbers.

The "painting showcases, information etc" are in there to sell products. Hence why they put all the paints used in the painting article on the following pages. The battle reports are basically there to show off new releases. There is barely anything in the magazine which isn't designed to draw your attention towards something GW sells. "A catalog is a magazine that is published, exclusively, to sell a company's product. " isn't far off the mark.

Kanluwen wrote:Oh my God. How dare they showcase something releasing that month. Those devious, underhanded fiends!

I'm not saying they are underhanded for making a magazine designed to sell products. They can do what they like. Just don't expect me to buy it.

whatwhat wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

whatwhat wrote:When 90% of the magazine is geared towards selling more of the company's product it may as well be.

"Catalogs" are not magazines "geared towards selling more of the company's product".

A catalog is a magazine that is published, exclusively, to sell a company's product. There will be no information, no painting showcases, etc like you see in White Dwarf.

It will be nothing but descriptions of the product, pricing information, and parts numbers.

The "painting showcases, information etc" are in there to sell products. Hence why they put all the paints used in the painting article on the following pages. The battle reports are basically there to show off new releases. There is barely anything in the magazine which isn't designed to draw your attention towards something GW sells. "A catalog is a magazine that is published, exclusively, to sell a company's product. " isn't far off the mark.

That's called product placement.

Like when you see a movie featuring Pepsi or Coke products, or a bad guy driving a certain kind of car whilst the good guys drive another and outrun the bad guys.

Kanluwen wrote:Oh my God. How dare they showcase something releasing that month. Those devious, underhanded fiends!

I'm not saying they are underhanded for making a magazine designed to sell products. They can do what they like. Just don't expect me to buy it.

And I'm not saying that they do not make the magazine to sell products or support their lines.

I'm saying it's not a catalog. A catalog is a listing of products for sale.
It's not a magazine showing how to paint/use the product, and then giving you a way to buy the product too.

Fine Scale Modeler is, in terms of content, no different than White Dwarf. They have painting showcases, showcases of new products, etc along with links to where to buy them. That does not make them a catalog.

Kanluwen wrote:
That's called product placement.

Like when you see a movie featuring Pepsi or Coke products, or a bad guy driving a certain kind of car whilst the good guys drive another and outrun the bad guys.

What of it? ...giving it a name doesn't make me want to read a magazine full of it, and certainly not pay for the privilege.

Kanluwen wrote:

And I'm not saying that they do not make the magazine to sell products or support their lines.

I'm saying it's not a catalog. A catalog is a listing of products for sale.
It's not a magazine showing how to paint/use the product, and then giving you a way to buy the product too.

Fine Scale Modeler is, in terms of content, no different than White Dwarf. They have painting showcases, showcases of new products, etc along with links to where to buy them. That does not make them a catalog.

Ok so it's not a catalogue. I still can tell the diference between decent content and some BS publication which has 90% of the pages trying to sell you something. And no I don't read Fine Scale Modeler either.

Lynata wrote:Seriously? WD Codices are pretty much the worst thing that could happen to an army, aside from being squatted. A dozen glossy pages, half of whom are photos, can never replace a ~60 page book filled with tons of explanations, background and neat little stories.

Aside from being only $9 (and eventually Free) instead of $33 and far more easily updateable. Given the awful quality of the background in the newest books, I can live without fluff as sad as that is at this point :(

Kanluwen wrote:So where's the Dark Angels, Black Templars, Necrons, and Chaos Space Marines White Dwarf codices?

Out of those, Necrons are the only ones who are not up to date. And maybe they'll have better luck and get an actual book soon?

Kanluwen wrote:Since the book is supposed to be written by Phil Kelly, who didn't work on the White Dwarf "cop-out"--there's nothing at all other than YOU thinking there's a delay.

I like how you complain about speculation and then go on speculating yourself.

Kanluwen wrote:There's even fairly substantial reports that they'll actually be the Imperial force in the starter set.

And you actually believe that? A 360° turnaround seems neither likely nor economically viable. Space Marines are still the driving force behind GW's sales when it comes to 40k, and when this new Codex wasn't even considered important enough to warrant its own cover page on the WD it was printed on, I'm calling shenanigans on this supposed new interest. Warp, have you seen the foreword in the magazine? ~80 sentences of talk about WHF and how awesome Vampire Counts are, and at the end a single phrase: "Oh yeah, and we've got a new Codex for Sisters, too!" Come on.

I will never deny that I too feel that there is something in the works. But I really do not believe we'll get to see it soon. Else they could have just as well refrained from printing this nerf in the first place.

Kanluwen wrote:I have no understanding for kneejerk reactions or complaints that are essentially baseless speculation.

Experience isn't exactly baseless. When a portion of the playerbase gets neglected for ~8 years, then goes blister only and is then fobbed off with a nerfing WD minidex turning the army into a horde, some people may get a bit grumpy. That isn't exactly high tier psychology. Sure it could be worse, but it could also be so much better. I'm just saying that I see a lot of wasted potential here.

Hey, maybe you're right with all these speculations about a new book soon and an actual appearance in the 6E starter set. But I think my pessimism will serve me more in that it will limit the disappointment in the worst case scenarios and increase my joy should I actually get positively surprised.

If you can't deal with my personal opinion and feel compelled to counter my "kneejerk reaction" with a "kneejerk reaction" of your own, let's just stop this unproductive sparring here, alright? A few people just don't like the development so far. Sorry that I can't conform to your optimism.

To the OP: Why the hate?
By your own admission, you've only recently started reading it. You don't have the same viewpoint some of us older and more jaded souls do.

A few of us on this board were reading it when it was in its high 10s (pre-100) days, when it had "how to" articles on scratchbuilding/converting/kitbashing and not just "articles" on how to buy the latest GW model. When they would put templates for terrain or conversions IN the magazine, or even "free" terrain pieces (the bunker issue sold out in my area within 3 days - and rare were the tourneys without two of these on each table).

When it had articles on other games (albeit ones published by GW under licence. ). Army lists with character (not just the latest uber-killy character model-in-finecast).

Its article quality has decreased over the decades to the point where it is little more than a house organ (much like Dragon magazine became - and I have the same hate for it) and catalogue.

It also used to have "local" content. We used to have our own locally printed version with local club stuff and features. Now, we have the imported one where the only local content is the back end showing stockists and events and the occasional club advert.

I've not been the most consistent player; being military I've had to deal with multiple deployments and an injury and so forth. Taking a break from the hobby then coming back a couple years later tends to put a lot of emphasis on differences. WD in specific has glaringly devolved over time. The biggest element missing? FUN. They used to poke fun at the nerdling players, at other games, at themselves... There used to, back in the earliest days, be articles about things outside of GW's limited world. It used to be a magazine that any geek, regardless of their hobby of preference, could pick up and enjoy.

The one thing that they fixed, in an extremist sort of fashion, was the "he with the most rules wins". Back when Chapter Approved came out in every issue it was difficult to keep up with the most recent fixes. You could build a strategy around one concept and the guy across from you says, "You can't do that anymore" while whipping out a miniscule article with a patch/fix/new wargear you had no clue about. I don't think people understand the scale of the problem if they weren't playing back in 2nd edition. You think this i the age of grenades now? Imagine back when grenades were thrown ad could scatter... and land on the thrower. The variety of grenades back then was vast, and most came out in WD issues with little punchouts to use as templates for the grenades with persistent effects.

BUT, I would rather those days than these bland and mindless articles we see now. The pictures they show are nothing but top tier painting/sculpting while IF they manage to give painting/sculpting advice it is geared toward only the most starters. How often can you really post instructions on how to drybrush?? Bringing back letters and user submissions would be a start. And for heaven's sake, get a sense of humor. Orks used to be hilarious. Now they are a dry pun compared to what they used to be. There is a reason that almost every old-time player has/had an ork army. And it wasnt' because they were kickin' butt. It was because, regardless of win-lose-or-draw, the game was a blast!

Jimsolo wrote:Sam- I don't hate White Dwarf. And neither, I think, do the majority of folks in the hobby. One of the things I have started to figure out is that the most vocal segment of the population in the hobby are also frequently the minority. CS Goto hate, Matt Ward hate, Ultramarines hate, White Dwarf hate, Games Workshop hate, all of it.

This is truth.

I buy it occasionally. I still like the Battle Reports and the idea that there's nothing in it worth reading is either hyperbole or people who don't read it repeating other people's hyperbole.

I don't hate it. It's just very unrealistic. Whilst I realise that they have to sell their stuff, it becomes silly if you know where to look. I can bet you that the things that are the best in their batreps are the most expensive.

I'm suscribed, but I've only got... about 3 years worth? I enjoy it for what it is, The only thing I don't like is that half the mag is the store listings at the back. But hey, I don't have to read through those.