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Here's a potential list for my WIP Word Bearers. Semi-Competetive, made for fun play with friends who are between decent and great players. (So I need to remain semi-comp to have a good time)

HQ
2x Daemon Prince /w Wings, Sorceror, Slaanesh, Lash @ 155p

Elites
Terminators (Mark of Slaanesh)@ 550
3x Champion /w Paired Lightning Claws
1x Champion /w Combi Melta & Power Weapon
1x Champion /w Combi Melta & Chainfist
1x Terminator /w Combi Melta & Power Weapon
Land Raider /w Daemonic Possesion, Dozer Blade

Troops
9x Khorne Berzerkers + 1x Skull Champ /w Pfist in Rhino @ 285

9x CSM /w 2x Meltagun + 1x Asp Champ /w Pfist in Rhino @ 245

9x CSM /w 2x Meltagun + 1x Asp Champ /w Pfist in Rhino @ 245

9x CSM /w 2x Plasmagun + 1x Asp Champ /w Pfist in Rhino @ 260

Heavy Support
Vindicator /w Daemonic Possesion @ 155

3x Obliterators @ 225

3x Obliterators @ 225

It appears you have one too many Terminators to fit in that Land Raider my man!
The troops look good, although you may considering loosing some of the Power Fists and/or getting some IoCG in there?
In fact, I'd recommend dropping a Terminator and dropping entirely or degrading the powerfists to power weapons on the CSM's and getting a Greater Daemon.

Finally, I'm not sure whether I would recommend 2 Vindicators or 2 squads of Obliterators, but considering the list I'd say Oblits are probably the better choice.

Looks good overall, hope that helps buddy!

Well. The extra termi was a *doh* moment/wish Army Builder would have yelled at me about it. I worked in the IoCG with the extra points. Definitely a good investment (especially since the extra termie was illegal).

Dropping the power fists... I'm wondering from a tactical standpoint, where does that leave the CSM tac squads? I mean wouldn't they be pretty impotent in CC at that point? Any help w/ tactics in that regard greatly appretiated.

HQ
2x Daemon Prince /w Wings, Sorceror, Slaanesh, Lash @ 155p

Elites
Terminators (Mark of Slaanesh)@ 525
3x Champion /w Paired Lightning Claws
1x Champion /w Combi Melta & Power Weapon
1x Champion /w Combi Melta & Chainfist
1x Champion /w Heavy Flamer & Chainfist
Land Raider /w Extra Armor, Dozer Blade

Troops
9x Khorne Berzerkers + 1x Skull Champ /w Pfist in Rhino /w Combimelta @ 295

9x CSM /w 2x Meltagun + 1x Asp Champ /w Pfist & IoCG in Rhino @ 255

9x CSM /w 2x Meltagun + 1x Asp Champ /w Pfist & IoCG in Rhino @ 255

9x CSM /w 2x Plasmagun + 1x Asp Champ /w Pweapon & IoCG in Rhino @ 270

Heavy Support
Vindicator /w Daemonic Possesion @ 155

3x Obliterators @ 225

3x Obliterators @ 225

You can put Dozer Blades on Chaos Land Raiders?

The only reason I ask is that loyalists can't, and it makes me angry...

Codex isn't in front of me. Army builder says I can.

Fascinating... I immobilize my Land Raider every time I move through terrain with it, so I have issues on that subject.

Honestly, I like the list. I would say drop the vindicator for more Obliterators, but I can understand the appeal of a Demolisher cannon so I don't see a reason to quibble.

My only problem, really, is the Land Raider. I think that you'd be better served putting those points into another squad of troops, possibly some melta or plasma toting Plague Marines. You can then deep strike the termies on a suicide mission. Or termicide if you will.

All these Champions except the Berzerker one are expensive and a waste of points. The Terminator Champions are adding nothing to the unit, just costing 10 points a pop, take MoK instead if you want extra attacks. The normal Champions add 15 points onto wargear they take, that power fist is really costing 40 points instead of 25 points. Champions are only needed if using Greater Daemons. If you drop all the Champions you will get a lot of points back which can be used in another unit. Also that Land Raider is not going to last 5 minutes at this points level as it will just be shot down and the Terminators walking.

For a purely competitive list, I might switch it up to termicide and take some more troopers, but I really like the idea of running a Land Raider full of I5 termies AND a Vindicator AND 6 Obliterators AND 2 Daemon Princes. If I could work in a Greater Daemon and still maintain 4 troops choices /w 2 special weapons each, I would. I love the tactic of saturating the battlefield with multiple tough & deadly targets, it's kind of the premise my Daemons ran off of.

I see a lot of people not running aspiring champs in their CSM squads, just special weapons. What is the tactical reasoning for this? I mean if you get yourself in melta range, you're going to get assaulted / assault something. Without a power weapon/fist... wouldn't the squad be kinda... impotent? I understand IoCG is going to let you tarpit all day until they murder every last stinkin' marine.. but still.. death can't be the plan!

You need two Land Raiders then if you want to do that.

Tactical reason is the Champion adds very little to the unit for the points cost, as explained that power fist is now 40 points. Why exactly does the squad need a power weapon and fist anyway? They cannot assault out of a tank and the longer they stay inside the Rhino firing out the longer they survive.

Read some other lists.. made some mods... what do you guys think?

HQ
2x Daemon Prince /w Sorceror, Wings, Slaanesh, Lash @ 155p

Elite
Terminators /w Mark of Slaanesh @ 510p
1x Champion /w Chainfist & Combimelta
3x Champion /w Paired Lightning Claws
1x Champion /w Power Weapon & Heavy Flamer
Landraider /w Extra Armor & Dozerblade

Troops
9x Khorne Berzerkers + 1x Skull Champ /w Pfist in Rhino /w Combimelta @ 295p

10x CSM /w 2x Meltaguns + IoCG in Rhino @ 215p

10x CSM /w 2x Meltaguns + IoCG in Rhino @ 215p

5x Plague Marines /w 2x Plasmaguns in Rhino @ 180p

5x Plague Marines /w 2x Plasmaguns in Rhino @ 180p

Heavy Support
Vindicator /w Possession @ 145p

3x Obliterators @ 225p

3x Obliterators @ 225p

Monster Rain wrote:You can put Dozer Blades on Chaos Land Raiders?

The only reason I ask is that loyalists can't, and it makes me angry...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can. Lord only knows how it's modelled or would work in fluff however!

----

I'm not sure I quite agree about how long the Land Raider would last. Whilst typically a single Land Raider would struggle to cope, with 5 rhinos, 2 Daemon Princes and a near-unstoppable Vindicator, the opponent has a lot of targets to shoot at, even at this points level... Obviously it would be vulnerable, but it's not quite as clean cut as Mercer suggests IMHO. Even so, the rest of your army should suffer a lot less due to the firepower directed at the Land Raider.

---

Regarding the latest list, I'm not sure if I prefer this one or the previous one, minus a few champions but including a great daemon. Personally, I'd recommend removing the Champion status from the Termies and possibly replacing some of the lightning claws for more meltaguns? I'm unsure where I'd invest the remaining points; probably on combimelta's for the rhinos (further adding to target priority problems for the enemy). Ultimately, I'd speak to Mannahnin too, because he certainly knows his CSM's.
Monster's got a good point on the Land Raider too IMHO, though I think that argument could go either way, but it's certainly a possibility...

Good luck man!

Sorry to be late to the party and only have a minute; Just on my way out the door to Ard Boyz.

I prefer the list way better with the champs. Those Fists are key in assaults against any other kind of marine. I like the greater daemon, enjoy using him and find him competitive, but I'm leaving him out of today's list.

Fascinating... I immobilize my Land Raider every time I move through terrain with it, so I have issues on that subject.

Too bad it's the old crappy 3rd-4th ed Dozer, which only works when you're moving up to 6".

DPs are rather vulnerable at the 2000 pt level. I'd take a Sorcerer and Abbaddon riding with the Termies in the ancient LR.

wuestenfux wrote:DPs are rather vulnerable at the 2000 pt level. I'd take a Sorcerer and Abbaddon riding with the Termies in the ancient LR.

Can a sorceror lash out of the rhino hatch?

Cottonjaw wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:DPs are rather vulnerable at the 2000 pt level. I'd take a Sorcerer and Abbaddon riding with the Termies in the ancient LR.

Can a sorceror lash out of the rhino hatch?

He can, because it counts as a shooting attack.

Cottonjaw wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:DPs are rather vulnerable at the 2000 pt level. I'd take a Sorcerer and Abbaddon riding with the Termies in the ancient LR.

Can a sorceror lash out of the rhino hatch?

Bear in mind that you can't do it if you've moved at cruising speed, though.

I think I've finally got this crazy thing hammered down.

Daemon Prince /w Wings, Slaanesh, Lash @ 155p

Daemon Prince /w Wings, Slaanesh, Lash @ 155p
=Elites=
Terminators @ 235
2x Termi /w PW & Combimelta
1x Termi /w Chainfist & Combimelta
1x Champion /w Twin LC
1x Champion /w Twin LC & MoS

Landraider /w Possesion @ 240

=Troops=
8x Berserkers + 1x Champion /w Power Fist in Rhino @ 264

8x Berserkers + 1x Champion /w Power Fist in Rhino @ 264

10x Chaos Marines /w 2x Meltagun & IoCG in Rhino @ 215

10x Chaos Marines /w 2x Meltagun & IoCG in Rhino @ 215

5x Plague Marine /w 2x Meltagun in Rhino @ 160

=Heavy Support=
Vindicator /w Daemonic Possesion @ 145

3x Obliterator @ 225

3x Obliterator @ 225

The only changes I would make are due to personal preference.

Defiler instead of Vindicator and 2 squads of chosen with meltas instead of terminators.

I prefer chosen to Terminators, myself.