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It's been ridiculous for a long time. In the 50s, there were douchbags who thought comic books would brainwash children into homosexual subversives. Thirty years later, other douchebags thought D&D was a "satanic" ritual that would lead to murder and suicide. Another thirty years on and we have a culture that cannot distinguish between Tentacle Bento and the systematic denigration and oppression of women and minorities. We have this idea that people are getting smarter and more thoughtful over time. That idea is not entirely supported by the facts.

Getting?

Pseudo-nonces vs Pseudo-puritans has always been pretty ridiculous, funny but ridiculous.

Pass the popcorn.

I know things in general are ridiculous, but at the same time I'm looking back at the Kotaku article, and people are like, "really this game is maybe creepy at best"

The comments on it are awesome, I'm waiting for someone to bring up Tentacle Grape soda and how they thought it was a good idea...

I have found, since reading the kotaku article's comments, there is a game that was made called "Kittens in a Blender" yes it is exactly what you think it is about. Kittens in blenders, and it was funded via kickstarter. So the death of fake representations of real animals in fake representations of real blenders in card game form is okay, but fake tentacles grabbing fake girls at a fake school in card game form is not.

Even so: Anyone and any company can be charged with hypocrisy but that's not really much of a charge. People (and companies) make mistakes -- it doesn't mean that they have to keep making mistakes in order to be consistent and thus legitimate. If Kickstarter looked back on "Kittens In A Blender" with regret, then canceling Tentacle Bento is at least consistent with that regret.

The real problems are:

(1) a company that we pay to NOT exert third-party control over funding is doing exactly that

and, much more disappointing really,

(2) some people think Tentacle Bento is advocacy of violence against women.

Manchu wrote:Even so: Anyone and any company can be charged with hypocrisy but that's not really much of a charge. People (and companies) make mistakes -- it doesn't mean that they have to keep making mistakes in order to be consistent and thus legitimate. If Kickstarter looked back on "Kittens In A Blender" with regret, then canceling Tentacle Bento is at least consistent with that regret.

The real problems are:

(1) a company that we pay to NOT exert third-party control over funding is doing exactly that

and, much more disappointing really,

(2) some people think Tentacle Bento is advocacy of violence against women.

Possibly, Kittens in a Blender was funded 4 days ago, Tentacle Bento was canned 2 days ago. I agree with the fact that Kickstarter is exerting control over a project (though they do have rules and terms that all projects need to follow, but as is the case, they aren't really following that) and as for point 2, I could post the mind achingly numbing conversation I had with my friend who heard about this yesterday and is insanely angry over the fact that this game even possibly existed. I'm sitting back and just watching with a level of glee at the fact that all of this hate has done nothing, the game already has like 20k since getting canned. Now the game is coming and the haters can't do anything about it.

Maybe now it's time to break some eggs and stir up a gakstorm against everything even remotely dubious on Kickstarter, until they grow a pair and stop giving in to fundie nonsense.

Alfndrate wrote:
I have found, since reading the kotaku article's comments, there is a game that was made called "Kittens in a Blender" yes it is exactly what you think it is about. Kittens in blenders, and it was funded via kickstarter. So the death of fake representations of real animals in fake representations of real blenders in card game form is okay, but fake tentacles grabbing fake girls at a fake school in card game form is not.

You are talking about the good US of A! Blood, gore and dismemberment are all fun family activities but the second someone shows some cleavage they are branded as the spawn of satan...

I'm composing an email to PETA right this moment.

lord_blackfang wrote:... until they grow a pair and stop giving in to fundie nonsense.

You're absolutely right to identify it as fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism dressed up as feminism is still fundamentalism. ContrastingSoda Pop Miniatures against rape charities proceeds from the same logic as calling doctors who perform abortions murderers. Strangely, folks who do the former would steam and curse upon encountering the latter. It's not that they're hypocrites. It's just that really, deep down they are also fundamentalist. They just identify some other, allegedly progressive stance as "what's fundamental."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Really excellent commentary here:

Michelle Zhang wrote:The game in itself, from what I gathered from the information posted on the Kickstarter and the website itself, is a tongue-in-cheek card game about tentacle monsters and girls. You play as a monster with tentacles disguised as a girl whose goal is to capture girls in a high school. The object is to capture girls before your opponent (also a monster disguised as a girl) does.

That’s it.

So where’s the controversy? The controversy comes from our own minds. Our own already twisted minds projecting our thoughts on to the game. And in a way I feel like this game is suppose to get us to have that reaction. It’s a sort of commentary on how we see certain things. A commentary on how this genre has been so pervasive that we automatically associate “tentacle” with something more sinister.

And here:

Allison Jones wrote:tbh as someone who rather likes the tentacle rape kink it sort of made me chuckle. but if you don’t like it then it’s not a game for you and you don’t have to support it.

and that’s fine. but being angry that the game exists, or is about to exist, isn’t about stopping rape culture, it’s about shaming people for liking a kink and having fun with it. and i think that’s absurd.

Alfndrate wrote:Possibly, Kittens in a Blender was funded 4 days ago, Tentacle Bento was canned 2 days ago.

If someone funded Kittens in a Blender 4 days ago, then someone's commiting fraud. I've purchased/owned that game for my kids since last Christmas.

In the interests of staying on-topic:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1187581581/kittens-in-a-blender-the-card-game/posts

Thanks ~ Manchu

Alfndrate wrote:

...

I could post the mind achingly numbing conversation I had with my friend who heard about this yesterday and is insanely angry over the fact that this game even possibly existed.

Only a terrible troll would buy him a copy of this...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13210/hentacle

Thunderfrog wrote:

Alfndrate wrote:Possibly, Kittens in a Blender was funded 4 days ago, Tentacle Bento was canned 2 days ago.

If someone funded Kittens in a Blender 4 days ago, then someone's commiting fraud. I've purchased/owned that game for my kids since last Christmas.

In the interests of staying on-topic:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1187581581/kittens-in-a-blender-the-card-game/posts

Thanks ~ Manchu

Note: the video in the link says that the guy doing the kickstarter is the inventor of the game. The game came out last Christmas, but the publisher of the game (not inventor) went under after the initial run. So this kickstarter is to get the game back out into the public and even comes with an expansion pack. Looks fun, simple to play, and kinda "gory" lol.

Note: After seeing lots of horrible images on the net, the only thing that still gets me is cats being killed... Specifically a gif image someone sent me of a cat literally in a blender being turned on... D:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Alfndrate wrote:

...

I could post the mind achingly numbing conversation I had with my friend who heard about this yesterday and is insanely angry over the fact that this game even possibly existed.

Only a terrible troll would buy him a copy of this...

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/13210/hentacle

I thought about buying her this game, Tentacle Bento, and a 6 pack of Tentacle Grape soda... I felt that it might have crossed a line...

It is clear to me that the project was closed for no more reason than kickstarter fearing for their reputation (Now that they get a lot of attention from media).
They rather like to disgruntle a bunch of weirdos than the majority of their participants. I as a weirdo see this point and don't see a reason not to be slightly disgruntled.

I am just glad this game is still being funded by others as well, since the girl all puritans here seemingly want to protect from any offense, really wanted a copy.

Theres a few of you that need to get off the high horse.

The goal was achieved. Kickstarter removed the funding.

The issue here is....


There was no harming of real actual live high school girls in the making of the game....



Then theres the little ditty of... no actual rapes involved in... the game.

And then theres the real point of the matter of Kickstarter funding those tenticle garters....



And to the one that spouted off at the hole about hiding the girls in berkas....


You forgot to mention what they do to the young boys on thursdays...



No doubt, I loves me some girls. loves me some beers even more. Say goodnight to the bad guy.


boo hoo.

Yeah, they got $20 from me they wouldn't have if they hadn't been booted from kickstarter.

More reasonable coverage:

What this really boils down to is whether a game such as Tentacle Bento is actually harming anybody.

If cancelling the production of Tentacle Bento would prevent even a single person from being subjected to an act of violence, I would gladly put a torch to every copy of the game. However, I’m not an expert on women’s issues, and would never claim to be, so I cannot speak to the effect of such a game on society. I also can’t speak for the other journalists covering this topic, but unless they have some expertise in this field, they are taking a stance rooted in personal taste and opinion.

Whether the company's products are in good taste or bad, the folks behind Soda Pop Miniatures are real people with real jobs. Regardless of how I actually feel about Tentacle Bento, advocating harm to a company based on what amounts to a judgment call is an action I could never take.

http://geek-news.mtv.com/2012/05/17/tentacle-bento-kickstarter/

If cancelling the production of Tentacle Bento would prevent even a single person from being subjected to an act of violence, I would gladly put a torch to every copy of the game.

That's "reasonable"?

I suspect you're being ironic.

What I meant was that it was "more reasonable" than this:

Brandon Sheffield wrote: The company [Kickstarter] should not help to facilitate the idea that rape is no big deal.

Matt Morgan's piece is a direct criticism of Sheffield's call to arms.

Manchu wrote:What I said is that it was "more reasonable" than this:

Brandon Sheffield wrote: The company [Kickstarter] should not help to facilitate the idea that rape is no big deal.

Matt Morgan's piece is a direct criticism of Sheffield's call to arms.

I thought you meant "additional", not comparative.

Although I'm not sure that the MTV article is necessarily "more reasonable" than the InsertCredit article. I don't see InstantCredit suggesting that we "put a torch to every copy of the game." They're just saying it is in poor taste.

I agree that the literal action of "putting a torch" to copies of a game is unreasonable in itself. And even the language is way too extreme. I think Morgan finds himself writing in an extremely polarized space where you lose all credibility unless you absolutely disavow (ironically, in a violent way) any possible sympathy with violence against women. Still, Morgan is suggesting that potential for actual harm to women is a better measuring stick for evaluating Tentacle Bento than politicized personal taste. And that is more reasonable than Sheffield's argument that "Tentacle Bento’s Kickstarter success is the product of a society that doesn’t take sexual assault against women seriously enough."

But yes I agree that "putting the torch" to books or games or people is not a reasonable way of talking. Unlike anime girls being snatched by tentacle monsters, those sorts of things do actually happen in real life:


Comics being burned during the moral panic of the 1950s.

biccat wrote:They're just saying it is in poor taste.

That's not true. Sheffield says that Kickstarter should not host Soda Pop's project because, according to him, it's in poor taste. That is the very thing that Matt Morgan and others have a problem with. Morgan noted "It infuriates me that a gaming journalist would write a hit piece to kill a game because it offended him."

Taste masquerading as politics is the very problem that concepts like feminism and queer theory were invented to deconstruct. Using those ideas to reconstruct a culture of bullying people who have different preferences from yours is a travesty.

Here's my two definitive statements on this whole thing:

1. Kickstarter can do whatever the hell they want with their site. It totally sucks if you don't like what they do, but there it is.

2. On the state of the game and it's image of imagines rape: It's not real, and because of that its perfectly legal, too, so you are within your rights to enjoy it. But most people are likely to think it's damn creepy that someone gets enjoyment out of it, and if you are defending it, don't go trying to pretend to be surprised by the negative reactions. You aren't fooling anyone.

I'd like to note the fact that 'tentacle rape' in this context seems to means 'tentacle groping'. Is groping rape now? Anyone at Kickstarter ever seen an octopus trying to grab a hold of something? Because it's pretty much all groping all the time. Try to hug that girl? Grope. Been asked to help figure out you GF's bra size? Grope. Shake that guy's hand? Grope the frak of those fingers.

Poor little octopus is now a serial rapist...

I thought this idea was awful to begin with, but even so, it had a right to go on. I'm not the target audience for neither Tentacle-Abduction-Anime nor Soda Pop Sexpolitation Minis. Either way, I'm not going to cause an uproar trying to get them banned or publicly shamed in moral outcry. Live and let live.

Kovnik Obama wrote:I'd like to note the fact that 'tentacle rape' in this context seems to means 'tentacle groping'. Is groping rape now? Anyone at Kickstarter ever seen an octopus trying to grab a hold of something? Because it's pretty much all groping all the time. Try to hug that girl? Grope. Been asked to help figure out you GF's bra size? Grope. Shake that guy's hand? Grope the frak of those fingers.

Poor little octopus is now a serial rapist...

"Groping" is pretty much by definition, without consent and considered a form of sexual assault. Sure it's not as serious as rape, but that's like saying "I shot your child in the foot, but at least I didn't shoot him in the head!"

Manchu wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I get that Kickstarter's lost favor with you, Manchu, but I think you're too colored by your own opinions and not giving the facts enough weight. Kickstarter made a decision then, as is their right, changed their mind when, as a corporate entity, they changed their minds.

I don't think I've ever said Kickstarter should not have the right not to do business with Soda Pop. What I have said is that Kickstarter's business is providing a contact between creators and investors where there is little to no third-party control of funding. So yes they have the right to exercise that third-party control by, for example, canceling certain projects mid-funding but exercising that right obviously undermines them as a business.

Also, Eric, in the post you quoted I was actually reciting the facts in response to speculation. I'm pretty surprised that you chose to quote that post as an example of me "not giving the facts enough weight."

Fair enough, but knowing the facts and letting them influence your opinion are not the same thing. So, though you know them, that doesn't mean that you are (in my opinion) giving them the importance that you should.

I don't see how it undermines them as a business to stop supporting TB. I mean, there's nothing about being a business that says you're not allowed to change your mind. That's all they did.

I don't see anything put out by Kickstarter that says why they changed their mind or, more specifically, what influenced them to change their mind. People are screaming about how purists and uptight conservatives pressured KS to cancel the project. Where does KS say that? If I missed it, then fair enough - my bad. Otherwise, it's no less likely that some high up saw that it was a staff pick, looked at the project, and said, "Holy Crap! Not in MY backyard!" then pulled the plug (or got that ball rolling) himself.

There are a lot of people in here -on BOTH sides of the metaphorical fence- throwing around opinions based on other people's opinions, rather than actual facts. THOSE people need (again, IMO) to straighten up and get their facts straight before getting all outraged at "the other side."

Eric

The facts, as near as they can be deciphered thanks to Kickstarter's policy of not explaining its actions to all of its customers, have been established.

- Kickstarter approved the Tentacle Bento Project.
- The Tentacle Bento Project made good headway.
- Kickstarter put the Tentacle Bento Project on its own front page as a "Staff Pick."
- Brandon Sheffield urged his readers to demand that Kickstarter cancel the project.
- Sheffield's article was praised by and distributed through Kotaku.
- Kickstarter canceled the Tentacle Bento Project.
- The Tentacle Bento Project had been funded as of that point in the amount of $30,701.
- Soda Pop Miniatures moved the project to its own site as a pre-order offer.
- As of right now, Soda Pop has received pre-orders in the amount of $22,138.
- We will never know how much investors would have sunk into the Tentacle Bento Project if Kickstarter had allowed it to continue.

So which of these facts am I not giving enough weight, Eric?

Interestingly there is a fella moaning on their blog atm, that he can't get a book about finances approved to go on Kickstarter, tried three times so far. So they certainly have an approval process, its not automated.

Kovnik Obama wrote:I'd like to note the fact that 'tentacle rape' in this context seems to means 'tentacle groping'. Is groping rape now?

Off-topic but if a person 18 or older "groped" a person under 18 in the U.S, I believe it would be clasified as "sexual assault of a minor" regardless of whether the minor consented or not...though there are exceptions (Parental Consent to be maried to a minor 16 years or older). The guilty party would be facing jail time.

Manchu wrote:Even so: Anyone and any company can be charged with hypocrisy but that's not really much of a charge. People (and companies) make mistakes -- it doesn't mean that they have to keep making mistakes in order to be consistent and thus legitimate. If Kickstarter looked back on "Kittens In A Blender" with regret, then canceling Tentacle Bento is at least consistent with that regret.

The real problems are:

(1) a company that we pay to NOT exert third-party control over funding is doing exactly that

and, much more disappointing really,

(2) some people think Tentacle Bento is advocacy of violence against women.

I agree re: making mistakes and consistency.
I also agree with your (2) above.

In what way does Kickstarter's business model state that they don't/won't exert 3rd party control over a project? if that's what YOU envision that you're paying them for, that doesn't necessarily make it true. You're giving money to the 3rd party to fund their project. As part of the expense of that project, they're giving a portion of the raised funds to Kickstarter. YOU are not actually paying Kickstarter.

Eric

People who back the project can now show this off with an official "Backed!" badge from Sodapop's Facebook page:

@Eric:

That's a good point. There is an indirect relationship between the investor and Kickstarter. But let's face it:

- No Creators = No Kickstarter; AND
- No Investors = No Kickstarter

I am really curious as to what you think Kickstarter sells if not the direct connection between creator and investor? And I'm also curious to hear what you think Kickstarter did by canceling this project if not sever that very connection?

John Cadice of Kickstarter emailed Brandon Sheffield and Sheffield intervied him. IMO, Cadice comes off as truly professional here and I'm glad Sheffield allowed and published this dialog:

http://insertcredit.com/2012/05/17/the-boundaries-of-humor-an-interview-with-john-cadice-creator-of-tentacle-bento/