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2014/03/13 10:55:12
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
I think I'm definitely all-in on the next KS they launch.
I've decided that the Mantic battlezones are tricky to put together (those bloody connectors...) and paint to a good standard and while the end result can end up looking better than pre-printed card it takes a much longer time to get there, and I just don't have the time with all the other hobby stuff to do as well.
So, for Kings of War terrain, I'll definitely give the fantasy stuff a shot.
If they produce a good range of ruins it might even get me playing Mordheim again!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/13 10:56:02
2014/03/13 11:37:36
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Fantasy will be interesting, but detailed interiors are really more for the RPG-crowd, and maybe dungeon crawler tiles, which again, are a bit more RPG-crowd. Or lots of fantasy buildings (think Bree) also is more of a RPG and skirmish thing. Which would look ace, but not get as much use the sci-fi stuff in terms of gaming.
For big-troop-block fantasy, I think of scattered individual buildings rather than detailed interiors. It'll be interesting to see where they take it, at least.
It will most likely be similar to the sci-fi in set up so internal dungeon type stuff some of the parts like the walls are just reskinned versions of the sci-fi walls I wouldn't be expecting to be able to build a town and exteriors from it even the sci if bunker walls were a last minute addition.
Expect dungeon crawl boards not fantasy terrain as such.
Yeah, this is most likely to be dungeon-crawl friendly terrain. I bet if people ask enough you'll get buildings though, just like you can assembled 4 walls together and build upwards into a tower, with the right skin they could make buildings. And the bunker set implies outside connections as well... but definitely most likely to be inside.
2014/03/13 13:35:35
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Essentially it's going to be more directly competing with what's already available from Terraclips. I agree that the clips themselves are a little over-engineered but it remains to be seen if their texture work is as good as the "..of Malifaux" and "Dungeon Rise" sets.. or how good the furniture is compared with the furniture in the "Dungeon Rise" boxes.
What I'm concerned about is the timing of a BS ltd fantasy dungeon terrain kickstarter and Mantic doing their DKH4 kickstarter as they will probably be doing hard plastic dungeon terrain for it. It's supposedly going to be a "mini-kick" but I don't see how they'll keep it at a low value if they do the dungeon equivalent of their Battlezones they did for Deadzone. I'll want the BS stuff for ease of use and lack of work to make it look good, but the DKH4 terrain might look and weather even better if they do it right. The BS stuff would probably go further per dollar, but if they tweak the connector system and make it a bit easier to keep things modular... mantic HP fantasy dungeon terrain may just win outright for me. My fear is that one will run before the other and I'll have to back not knowing how the other will turn out. Ahh well, either should work pretty well.
At least I should have had a chance to play with the Scifi battle systems stuff to know which I prefer handling and storing, so that's something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/14 03:17:01
2014/03/14 16:53:57
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
One of my favorite games is Warhammer 6th Edition Skirmish w/ Mordheim, and I have been itching to run a campaign for my gaming buddies where each game is the setpiece battle with roleplaying elements afterwards that will dictate the next setpiece battle. With my eclectic collection of Chaos and Empire figs from the late 80's til now and a buncha Mordheim dudes it'll be perfect.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
GrimDork wrote: What I'm concerned about is the timing of a BS ltd fantasy dungeon terrain kickstarter and Mantic doing their DKH4 kickstarter
Wouldn't be surprised if they worked together on it. They used Mantic models in their shots and they dropped hints about a possible future partnership.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/14 16:54:58
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2014/03/14 21:23:36
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
I thought about that... but Mantic is almost guaranteed to do hard plastic, and BS does card. I'm not sure how they'd be compatible, even if the companies are friendly. I think it would be some kind of awesome, I'm just not sure how it would work out.
2014/03/15 00:37:14
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
If I had to choose between the two, I'd have to choose BS over DZ for general use (said without having BS in hand yet). DZ terrain is great, but I think for your usual 2x2 Deadzone game, BS terrain will be more fun. For a 6x4, yeah a lot of outdoors terrain such as the deadzone stuff will be better.
Dwarf Kings Hold is small/skirmish scale and fully indoors right? If Mantic follows my line of reasoning they'd probably benefit greatly from a partnership with BS. If they combine and advertise the KS as a fantasy skirmish/RPG god-mode KS... Screw playing on cardboard tiles (a quick look at DKH on Mantics site) when you can have multilayered wall/level sections like BS have shown off. That said, BS don't have a copyright/patent/whatever on cardstock walls and Mantic could feasibly do it themselves I'd imagine. The "pre-painted" aspect of cardstock is *very* alluring over plastic.
(disclaimer: I know nothing about DKH)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/15 00:40:27
2014/03/25 13:14:46
Subject: Re:Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
It's update time again and as mentioned in the last one we wanted to show you a short video.
This video looks at ways you can improve the life of your set. Something we always had in mind, but only now could we test it as we have the final set sheets to play with.
So without further chit chat from me, click the video below then read on regarding the finer details.
As you can see sealing the edges really turns the card into a solid piece of kit. The glue seeps into the porous edges by 2-3mm and then is dry within a few seconds. I'm guessing it takes a few minutes to really set solid.
We are really impressed with this as it means the treated parts just feel like plastic and as far as we can tell these edges will never wear as card normally can over time. What we have noticed is that the card does darken after the glue has been applied and stays darker. It's only slight and in the case of the Clone chamber it actually more accurately matched the darker metal so its a win win here. If you are going to 'Pen Colour' the edges of your set then you will need to do this first. Once you have applied the glue to the edge, this edge will no longer except any pen colour. So colour first then seal.
We've not tried any other glues or sealants and most likely will not have time before we send out your goodies, but the good news is you will have plenty of spare card left over after you have popped out all the parts and so can test and experiment as much as you like )
Penning your Card
For our prototype (the one you've seen on KS, FB etc) we penned the edges as the card was pure white. We have a grey/brown card stock for the final product and so there is no need to pen this grey onto all the walls and most of the components. However some of the room items and parts of the set have different colours and so you can edge these with a thick marker pen of a similar colour and this will help to add to the realism of the terrain.
Below are a some of the final product pieces we have penned as well as some bits that really don't need penning at all.
We were not sure the yellow would work on the AirLock Surround, but it does )We were not sure the yellow would work on the AirLock Surround, but it does )
The Window Wall (like all the walls) does not need penning, but we did pen the iron textured edge of the Buttress
No penning needed on these V-ConsolesNo penning needed on these V-Consoles
We use: Letraset Pantone markers, but most artist markers will do. In fact we suspect that ordinary felt tip pens will do too. You'll have all that left over card to experiment on so take your time, test it on the scrap card then see if it looks right.We use: Letraset Pantone markers, but most artist markers will do. In fact we suspect that ordinary felt tip pens will do too. You'll have all that left over card to experiment on so take your time, test it on the scrap card then see if it looks right.
Penning your set is certainly not necessary as it looks amazing just as it is, but if you want that final tough of class, it really does looks great.
A few seconds of fun...
Finally a bit of fun with the Railings. You will almost certainly get more Railings than you need in the set so here we used a cross clip to make them into barricades. The potential for using parts of the set to make things that were not originally intended is quite vast, but we don't have time to mess around with that… you on the other hand certainly will.
x4 Long Railings and a single cross clipx
You could make quite a few of these and use them inside your set or for your current external set ups )You could make quite a few of these and use them inside your set or for your current external set ups )
That's about it for this update, not sure whats in the next as we are still in the final testing phase, which means we could be hitting the production button by the end of next week. We are just conducting final factory audits and crossing the 'T's' and dotting the lower case 'j's' … Then it begins )
Yeah nice! I'm really looking forward to bulking up my scatter terrain with all of the battlesystems bits.
Now, to watch the video.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow that superglue trick is excellent. I was wondering if that would be a thing you could do, looks like it certainly is. Then the penning. What's nice is that you can opt to do the superglue fix and penning after the fact, you don't have to do such prep before you ever use the terrain.
I wonder, though, if you need to do the penning and gluing in a particular order? I may have to pop on the forums and see if they know if it matters. I could see the ink not covering the glued surface well (or are they paint markers?) or the glue not seeping in as well through the paint (and or discoloring it). Either way, even if you can't use both, it's a nice pair of techniques to enhance the set.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/25 14:00:36
2014/03/25 14:13:16
Subject: Re:Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
From my experience building (many, many) cardstock models, you'll want to edge before you glue. Even if the glue seeps in, it will create a barrier to most ink pens, and the best you'll get is splotchy coverage.
2014/03/25 15:07:18
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Yeah, they mentioned that in the text but it was a little buried. I would have thought it was the opposite, so I'll try to remember... pen first, THEN glue the edges!
2014/03/25 16:04:19
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Apr 9 2014
Make it so… I said MAKE IT SO!!!
16 comments
19 likes
What a fast paced couple of weeks we've had. Last minute adjustments, fine tuning, phone calls to our manufacturer in China, a day of twiddling our thumbs, shipping company meetings, sorting out customs set ups, drinking lots of tea (to stay awake) and generally juggling last minute stuff.
Manufacturing
We have now fully finished the sample testing and all tools are ready. We thought we had done this last week, but thanks to a final check we found a small error on a tool (not too critical, but we wanted to get it fixed) and corrected this. This made us check through every tool again )
Here you can see that the Turbine tool was missing a cut on the clip area that allows the additional conduit to clip to the wallHere you can see that the Turbine tool was missing a cut on the clip area that allows the additional conduit to clip to the wall
On one of the Docking Bay sheets the clip slots were too small, these can easily be widened, but we wanted them wider so that any adjustments are minimal.On one of the Docking Bay sheets the clip slots were too small, these can easily be widened, but we wanted them wider so that any adjustments are minimal.
Timelines
One of the main issues with a project like this is that it has never been done before and so both ourselves and the manufacturers are in constant contact. When we launched the KS we made sure that we gave ourselves plenty of time to create these lovely sets and so set up a timeline for the whole process. This was based on design, printing, stamping, shipping etc. To make sure we did not deliver late we built into this an additional month of slack time. This was not a time for us to slack off, just spare time to account for issues that we could not foresee. Lucky for us we did that as we used this time developing all the KS stretch goals we hit due to how well we were received. Thanks again for that BTWD
The start time for manufacturing was Monday 31st March just gone, but we have not quite started yet. There are no issues or problems, just simple (but necessary) administration tasks and last minute corrections. Contracts are signed and shippers are ready to haul it over to us when we give the nod. We are just making sure (both China and ourselves) that this gets done properly due to the job complexity.
We made some last minute adjustments to some artwork (professionally spotted by China) and right now digital proofs are being produced and these need to be approved by us… then we are ready to go. We always want to be honest and not just blame it on manufacturing issues, so these are the real life time issues we have faced over the last 2 weeks and wanted to share this to keep you in the loop.
The original completion date for shipping to us (in London, UK) was the 15th May, leaving us a couple of weeks to get it all out to you guys. With the week we have lost and also some adjustments to the manufacturing time this could be a two week delay. This means that we will receive the shipment in the first week of June if all goes to plan and then start shipping out to you guys. It pains us to have to inform you of any delay, even a small one and we will keep you informed on this as we manufacture. Once we have this first project under our belts we will know exactly how long it takes to manufacture this new product and so future KS set timelines (yes we have plans for more, starting this year in the summer) will be based on actual manufacturing experience of the printing and tooling. We have just had confirmation that the printing will start this Friday, so we should be good to go.
Ok so now for some instructions…
As mentioned in the last update we wanted to post up the instructions for assembling all the components on the different sheets here on the KS. This means that by the time you get the goodies, you will already know what you're doing from the moment you open the box.
Here is the first one, it's the easy one.
So we have shot the instructional videos for every sheet type you get and we will continue to post these on every update… basically as we edit them. Then just before we launch, these will become part of our website so they are always available for you and anyone else jumping on board.
Clips
We are visiting our clip manufacture this Friday and will be getting these sorted ready for the sets. We have been testing many different plastics for these to make sure we get just the right type. We were looking at having these injection moulded to reduce the cost, however until we are sure this will work well we will not commit. This means that we will be having the clips laser cut just like our prototype, this is very expensive, but we know it works and that's the important part right now. The phrase 'no expense spared' is certainly fitting here ) More on this in another update.
Salute
Don't get excited we did not get a stand there this year, but we will be visiting Salute ready for next year (when we will have a stand) and so you might see us wandering about. Just grab us and say hello if you spot us, we will be happy to answer any questions you have, or just have a chat. We will have our trusty iPad with us with some photos of some new stuff, so if you ask nicely... we might show you a pic or two of what you can expect later in the year. To see these pic's you must use the code words "Make it so" ;-)
That's about it for now. Next update and each update there after will introduce you to your set with the assembly videos. In the meantime we will continue to focus on the manufacturing to get this all just right.
Over and out for now
Colin and Wayne
So a small delay. Nothing major but rather necessary it would seem. Lucky it got caught. Nice to know the project isn't too far off track.
Sadface. At least they're putting quality first! I was thinking this was coming sooner for some reason, got my dates off, now its at least two months away noooo'oooooo. Well, I'll live lol. Time to watch that video.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I like how easy everything looks to pop out and assemble so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/10 00:36:07
2014/04/16 01:47:19
Subject: Re:Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Apr 16 2014
If we never get in a car again...
2 comments
5 likes
… we will be happy.
Three days in London Monday to Wednesday, Six hours in the car round trip on Friday to see the clips manufacturer and then 6 hours in a car on the Saturday for Salute. Every now and then the dates in the diary pile up on each other we inevitably end up eating some of our 3 squares meals in a car. What if I told you, you're not stuck in traffic… you are traffic. )
Anyway it's update time and the above really is a high class problem to have, so here we go.
Clips
This is not the main clip update, that's still to come, but I will explain briefly that the meeting we had went very well indeed. We had a straight two hour journey (it was the return journey that was a nightmare) and then a two hour meeting. We had samples cut while we were there on machines worth more than my house and was testing them moments later. We have fallen on our feet again as the company really are the most amazing to talk to. In short it looks like we have what we wanted and have improved on the clips that we showed you on the KS. It costs a little more, but the upgrade will be worth the extra pennies ) We are getting final samples next week and when we hit the 'Go' button on these we will do a full update.
Here you can see that I'm holding the final clip design next to a couple of the prototypes )Here you can see that I'm holding the final clip design next to a couple of the prototypes )
Salute
Great day out all round. We met up with some of our fellow friends in the trade, Mantic, Bushido, Otherworld Miniatures, but the highlight was meeting some of you guys (you know who you are). Getting to chat with you about what you liked and what you want in the future was super cool. Also feedback both audio-verbal and non-verbal really was worth the journey. We showed you some of the next product line and the response was a unanimous thumbs up, so that's one hurdle over.
It was our first time at Salute and when we arrived our first impression was it was smaller than expected, feelings exaggerated partly due to all the driving in the past 24 hours at that time. However 3 hours later we had only just managed to walk the whole show and was then tasked with backtracking to the stands of note. In short great show, great stands and great atmosphere.
We give Salute a 5 star rating and I'm sure you will see the highlights soon as Warren and the crew from BoW were there with their cameras.
Assembly
Finally here is the Second in the series of assembly instructions. Last update was sheet 01, Floor Tiles. This Update is sheet 02, Walls. Each update from now will have a new new video until we have shown every single sheet in the set including all Add on sheets too.
Yep, things look to be progressing well! What is it with miniature gaming companies and teaser pics with the image blocked out lately, though... I think Infinity has started a trend
2014/04/16 12:02:43
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Speaking of Infinity, I dunno about you guys but with the thin walls... I totally plan to have my remotes climbing all over the place with the aid of magnets
2014/04/24 20:45:21
Subject: Re:Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
Another long update - basically the clips have been done in laser cut ABS grey plastic
Spoiler due to lenght
Spoiler:
Project Update #55: Clips, Trips and Video Tips...
Posted by Battle Systems Ltd ♥ Like
Well I hope you all had a nice Easter (for those celebrating it) we certainly consumed our body weight in chocolate products and roast dinners. Not much happened over Easter for us, however China does not suffer this holiday and so they have been busy for us )
Production…
I can confirm that printing production has started on the main part of the product so now it's just a waiting game to see how this goes. We will be kept up to date with the progress from China and will pass the news to you guys as it comes in.
Clips…
Ok so finally we have the finished clips and have pretty much tested all aspects. We are confident enough to show you these now and so here we go.
Clips sitting on top of the stamped card sheets straight out the box
The fact is this. The clips were by far one of the most difficult aspects of this project to manufacture. Do we injection mould them? Do we laser cut them? Can we have them die-stamped like the card sheets? Each method has its advantages and weaknesses.
Injection moulding can be risky as the slightest change in mould or bubble would make the clips useless. Cost wise it's heavy up front costs, but then cheap per set of clips
Die-Stamping them is much less upfront costs and then low cost per set, great. However unlike the card sheets we have stamped these can not easily be adjusted if slots are too small. We need to wait until this method becomes more accurate, for such a small part.
Laser cutting them is low upfront costs, but then costs per sheet are very high. However the finished results are perfect.
Well of course we have opted for the laser cut clips. The clips we used on the KS were laser cut and so we have stuck to this method.
Close up of the clips on the sheet
Finding a manufacturer who could do this at the right cost and to our specification was another story far too long for this or any update, but in short… it was very very hard. However we have now got a fantastic UK laser cutter company that can not only give us what we need, but also they are just as passionate about what they do as we are about what we do. They have some of our samples and we have both been testing the clips. On the clips themselves we have made adjustments to slot size, mouth point curves, material to name but a few. All tiny adjustments, but well worth the effort.
When we first started making the prototypes we used card clips, cut by yours truly. These are great for us to mess around with, but card clips are not durable or able to be die stamped so these evolved.
Original card clips
Next were clear Acrylic clips. These were only clear as this is what the guy that cut them had to hand at the time. We had seen clear clips used before on card products and they stood out like a sore thumb. However when we got them we quickly realised that as our clips are considerably smaller the clear clips blended in well with the terrain. This was good as our plan to find a material that would be a similar colour to our artwork on the card was proving very difficult. So we kept them and used them on the KS. However the draw back with Acrylic clips is that Acrylic is very brittle. In the 7 months of testing on our prototype we broke about 7 clips. Not too bad considering we were taking out sets on the road to shows and meetings. The main issue then... when we got our first samples from China we found the small prongs of the clips would crack when pushing them onto the samples… Why, because the actual finished product card was about 1.6mm instead of 1.5mm - Well this caused 'flat shear' pressure in the mouth of the clip. Thin means clips could become useless if the card thickness varies, which can happen as part of natural manufacturing process.
Acrylic Clips
So we pushed for our Holy Grail, clips that were similar to the colour of the terrain and also less brittle. Enter ABS plastic clips. We had some made for us and they performed perfectly. They had a small amount of flex to them (tiny amount), and this meant that 1.6mm card (or thicker) was no problem. These first samples were black and again actually blended quite well with the set, but not as good as the clear acrylic did. Black is not good enough for us and we had our eye on the only colour you can get in 1.5mm ABS sheet. 'Grey Pinseal' We could not get hold of this ourselves so we travelled a couple of hundred miles to the manufacturer for a meeting where we had some clips cut in front of us and we tried them out right there and then…
Black clips samples did the job perfectly, but we needed that grey colour
Clips popped off the sheet
Wow they were perfect, the clips blend in well, better than the clear acrylic ones and with no issues whatsoever. The clips also have a textured surface on one side, this looks great as it compliments the textured artwork of the walls and walkways…
Textured side
Smooth side
… and then we rested
Sheet of clips…
So your clips will come on a sheet and sit snuggly in your box so no chance of damage. The clips are held in place by small tabs (just like your miniature are on their plastic sprue) and all you do is pop them out with your fingers, although a sharp knife or thin clippers will give a better result. Just like your plastic miniatures you can cut or clip off any left over knobbly bits from the tabs, but we didn't bother.
Each sheet contains a whopping 136 clips, (as of this update, we might change this if needed) nearly double what we said. We thought we should give as many as was needed to cover stretch goals etc. We built many set ups and getting the ratio of each clip type was challenging, but we have a good mix. You will have some clips left over on some set ups and might be a clip short on other set ups, but you can always substitute one clip type for another if needed. basically you will have plenty of clips for lots of set ups ) If you have a Hulk set these will come with less clips as it's the multilevel aspect of the Stronghold that really uses lots of clips.
Long shot of a simple single level set up with the new clips
Close up of the clips in action… well just sitting there actually
In conclusion the clips are fantastic and we love them, you will too )
UK Games Expo
For any of you that are in the UK (or outside if you want to come to blighty) we will have a stand again at this years UK Games Expo. It's in Birmingham and will run from 30th May - 1st of June. Including being open 24 hours a day for through the night gaming. We will have a full set up of the terrain for both our current sci-fi range and a full set up of our new fantasy terrain. Feel free to come visit us on either the 31st or the 1st. (the 30th is gaming only so no trader stands)
https://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk All calm before the show opened last year. This year we have a bigger stand so watch outAll calm before the show opened last year. This year we have a bigger stand so watch out
Assembly video
Finally we leave you with our next assembly video, this week we have the Ramps.
Hope you enjoyed this update about the clips. We do go into a lot of detail on these updates, but as creators we think it's important that we explain what we are up too so that when you get your goodies you feel part of the final result. Lets face it, without your support the terrain would not happen. When you get your box remember... you made it )
Over and Out for now
Colin & Wayne
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/04/24 20:48:23
2014/04/24 23:13:56
Subject: Battle Systems Terrain Kickstarter - Updates thread
DaveC wrote: Another long update - basically the clips have been done in laser cut ABS grey plastic
Spoiler due to lenght
Spoiler:
Project Update #55: Clips, Trips and Video Tips...
Posted by Battle Systems Ltd ♥ Like
Well I hope you all had a nice Easter (for those celebrating it) we certainly consumed our body weight in chocolate products and roast dinners. Not much happened over Easter for us, however China does not suffer this holiday and so they have been busy for us )
Production…
I can confirm that printing production has started on the main part of the product so now it's just a waiting game to see how this goes. We will be kept up to date with the progress from China and will pass the news to you guys as it comes in.
Clips…
Ok so finally we have the finished clips and have pretty much tested all aspects. We are confident enough to show you these now and so here we go.
Clips sitting on top of the stamped card sheets straight out the box
The fact is this. The clips were by far one of the most difficult aspects of this project to manufacture. Do we injection mould them? Do we laser cut them? Can we have them die-stamped like the card sheets? Each method has its advantages and weaknesses.
Injection moulding can be risky as the slightest change in mould or bubble would make the clips useless. Cost wise it's heavy up front costs, but then cheap per set of clips
Die-Stamping them is much less upfront costs and then low cost per set, great. However unlike the card sheets we have stamped these can not easily be adjusted if slots are too small. We need to wait until this method becomes more accurate, for such a small part.
Laser cutting them is low upfront costs, but then costs per sheet are very high. However the finished results are perfect.
Well of course we have opted for the laser cut clips. The clips we used on the KS were laser cut and so we have stuck to this method.
Close up of the clips on the sheet
Finding a manufacturer who could do this at the right cost and to our specification was another story far too long for this or any update, but in short… it was very very hard. However we have now got a fantastic UK laser cutter company that can not only give us what we need, but also they are just as passionate about what they do as we are about what we do. They have some of our samples and we have both been testing the clips. On the clips themselves we have made adjustments to slot size, mouth point curves, material to name but a few. All tiny adjustments, but well worth the effort.
When we first started making the prototypes we used card clips, cut by yours truly. These are great for us to mess around with, but card clips are not durable or able to be die stamped so these evolved.
Original card clips
Next were clear Acrylic clips. These were only clear as this is what the guy that cut them had to hand at the time. We had seen clear clips used before on card products and they stood out like a sore thumb. However when we got them we quickly realised that as our clips are considerably smaller the clear clips blended in well with the terrain. This was good as our plan to find a material that would be a similar colour to our artwork on the card was proving very difficult. So we kept them and used them on the KS. However the draw back with Acrylic clips is that Acrylic is very brittle. In the 7 months of testing on our prototype we broke about 7 clips. Not too bad considering we were taking out sets on the road to shows and meetings. The main issue then... when we got our first samples from China we found the small prongs of the clips would crack when pushing them onto the samples… Why, because the actual finished product card was about 1.6mm instead of 1.5mm - Well this caused 'flat shear' pressure in the mouth of the clip. Thin means clips could become useless if the card thickness varies, which can happen as part of natural manufacturing process.
Acrylic Clips
So we pushed for our Holy Grail, clips that were similar to the colour of the terrain and also less brittle. Enter ABS plastic clips. We had some made for us and they performed perfectly. They had a small amount of flex to them (tiny amount), and this meant that 1.6mm card (or thicker) was no problem. These first samples were black and again actually blended quite well with the set, but not as good as the clear acrylic did. Black is not good enough for us and we had our eye on the only colour you can get in 1.5mm ABS sheet. 'Grey Pinseal' We could not get hold of this ourselves so we travelled a couple of hundred miles to the manufacturer for a meeting where we had some clips cut in front of us and we tried them out right there and then…
Black clips samples did the job perfectly, but we needed that grey colour
Clips popped off the sheet
Wow they were perfect, the clips blend in well, better than the clear acrylic ones and with no issues whatsoever. The clips also have a textured surface on one side, this looks great as it compliments the textured artwork of the walls and walkways…
Textured side
Smooth side
… and then we rested
Sheet of clips…
So your clips will come on a sheet and sit snuggly in your box so no chance of damage. The clips are held in place by small tabs (just like your miniature are on their plastic sprue) and all you do is pop them out with your fingers, although a sharp knife or thin clippers will give a better result. Just like your plastic miniatures you can cut or clip off any left over knobbly bits from the tabs, but we didn't bother.
Each sheet contains a whopping 136 clips, (as of this update, we might change this if needed) nearly double what we said. We thought we should give as many as was needed to cover stretch goals etc. We built many set ups and getting the ratio of each clip type was challenging, but we have a good mix. You will have some clips left over on some set ups and might be a clip short on other set ups, but you can always substitute one clip type for another if needed. basically you will have plenty of clips for lots of set ups ) If you have a Hulk set these will come with less clips as it's the multilevel aspect of the Stronghold that really uses lots of clips.
Long shot of a simple single level set up with the new clips
Close up of the clips in action… well just sitting there actually
In conclusion the clips are fantastic and we love them, you will too )
UK Games Expo
For any of you that are in the UK (or outside if you want to come to blighty) we will have a stand again at this years UK Games Expo. It's in Birmingham and will run from 30th May - 1st of June. Including being open 24 hours a day for through the night gaming. We will have a full set up of the terrain for both our current sci-fi range and a full set up of our new fantasy terrain. Feel free to come visit us on either the 31st or the 1st. (the 30th is gaming only so no trader stands)
https://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk All calm before the show opened last year. This year we have a bigger stand so watch outAll calm before the show opened last year. This year we have a bigger stand so watch out
Assembly video
Finally we leave you with our next assembly video, this week we have the Ramps.
Hope you enjoyed this update about the clips. We do go into a lot of detail on these updates, but as creators we think it's important that we explain what we are up too so that when you get your goodies you feel part of the final result. Lets face it, without your support the terrain would not happen. When you get your box remember... you made it )
Over and Out for now
Colin & Wayne
I was really impressed by this update. It's always a hard balance between giving too much and too little information, but what I love about this is they waited until they solved the problem and then shared a nice summary of the process they went through. Perfect for me
" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
)
Well, I'll live 
