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2014/09/29 03:11:11
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
der ray wrote: After reading some of this threat I am sitting here with my mouth wide open, staring at my screen in disbelief and I am still wondering what is going on.
I mean the Landraider is from a universe in which it is absolutely fine to torture people to death because they are just different or believe in other gods etc.
Mass genocide, torturing the popolation of an entire world to please some gods is fine, letting people work themselfs to death to build wargear is daily buissnes and races like the Tau who just expand their empire and only feed some of the people of the planets they conquered or just a part of the pow they make to their allies and not just butcher all of them are considered to be not grimdark enough and are hated by some folks for that reason.
And you folks are loosing your minds because of what ? Some half naked girls in cages ?
der ray wrote: After reading some of this threat I am sitting here with my mouth wide open, staring at my screen in disbelief and I am still wondering what is going on.
I mean the Landraider is from a universe in which it is absolutely fine to torture people to death because they are just different or believe in other gods etc. Mass genocide, torturing the popolation of an entire world to please some gods is fine, letting people work themselfs to death to build wargear is daily buissnes and races like the Tau who just expand their empire and only feed some of the people of the planets they conquered or just a part of the pow they make to their allies and not just butcher all of them are considered to be not grimdark enough and are hated by some folks for that reason.
And you folks are loosing your minds because of what ? Some half naked girls in cages ?
WTF
I have to quote Georgre R.R. Matin here I guess
Kharn dissagrees
Spoiler:
+1
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/29 11:11:49
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2014/09/29 13:31:59
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Apart from the fact that a famous author's opinion on a picture of his own face holds no more weight than anyone else's simple text opinion, even if he is the currently Internet[sup]TM[/sup] approved nerdgod, the quotation from GRRM isn't even relevant. A penis entering a vagina is a consensual and enjoyable act for both parties, and even in the cases of rape in his books, he as an author is condemning their actions, The creator of this Land Raider may not be openly condoning sexual abuse, but he is depicting it in a way that is attempting to glamorise it. Regardless of whether or not that was his intention, the fact remains and creators of "art" or "product" or whatever you want to call it, should be aware of the implications of what they have created. If the intention is to offend, or to ignite controversy, that person better be prepared to defend their reasoning.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/29 13:32:22
2014/09/29 14:03:13
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
calamarialldayerrday wrote: The creator of this Land Raider may not be openly condoning sexual abuse, but he is depicting it in a way that is attempting to glamorise it.
Wut
Seriously, in what way, shape or form is this "glamorising" sexual abuse? Does every strip club out there "glamorise" sexual abuse in your eyes?
2014/09/29 14:19:53
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
even in the cases of rape in his books, he as an author is condemning their actions,
Hmm not always - the whole Dany / Drogo first encounter causes a lot of debate - especially given her age and inexperience.
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Murenius wrote: I don't find nudity offensive at all - I'm European What I find offensive is depicting women (or men) in a derogative way, reduced to their sexuality. Depicting torture and gore is not a problem, but if the message that I receive is "Women are to be used" then that's not ok for me.
Works for me. I think the model is stupid, but others have a different opinion and thats ok. *
*By ok I mean ten thousand wiener dog ninjas are laying biological land mines all around your normal routes of travel...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/29 14:31:26
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2014/09/29 14:55:21
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
calamarialldayerrday wrote: Apart from the fact that a famous author's opinion on a picture of his own face holds no more weight than anyone else's simple text opinion, even if he is the currently Internet[sup]TM[/sup] approved nerdgod, the quotation from GRRM isn't even relevant. A penis entering a vagina is a consensual and enjoyable act for both parties, and even in the cases of rape in his books, he as an author is condemning their actions, The creator of this Land Raider may not be openly condoning sexual abuse, but he is depicting it in a way that is attempting to glamorise it. Regardless of whether or not that was his intention, the fact remains and creators of "art" or "product" or whatever you want to call it, should be aware of the implications of what they have created. If the intention is to offend, or to ignite controversy, that person better be prepared to defend their reasoning.
I watched the Debauchery (band) video clip that ASS (hmm....) linked earlier. The chicks are clearly more in line with Dark Eldar Torturer than anything else - and - while heavily sexualised - certainly not victims. And as we've said a dozen or more times, one of them has a great big fething axe. The "problem" here seems to be people projecting what they want to see onto it, without any appreciation of it's actual context. Then when the context is pointed out, denying that they could possibly have made a mistake and that their interpretation of the model supersedes the creator's intent or the actual context of it, because reasons. So even with the context supplied in the video, people are still seeing what they want to project onto it. Such as your hurfblurf about "sexual abuse".
NuggzTheNinja wrote: Mentioning the Israeli army in the same sentence as Nazis or the Taliban is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
From your cultural standpoint, perhaps.
But to people from certain areas of the Middle East, the comparison is probably not considered absurd or stupid.
Anyone who would equate Israel with Nazi Germany is a moron. End of story. The two are not even close to morally comparable. I shouldn't have to spell out to you why that is. A comparison with apartheid South Africa is fair. A comparison with Nazi Germany is simply exceptionally stupid and intellectually dishonest, no matter how you try to bend the truth.
Anyway, we've derailed this thread enough.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, though seeing the things that some Middle Easterns actually do say about Israel, you'd be wrong(and willfully ignorant) to think they'd blink at making those comparisons.
But this is the point of the thread: the offense isn't a part of the thing itself, but of the observer. And with regards to this item: if a prude is disturbed by a thing, is it your responsibility to conform to the prude's expectations? That can quickly become a heckler's veto, where the level of discourse is dictated by those most capable of finding offense, even if it seems unusual or indeed crazy.
Consider what Weeble said above: "The fact that we are 4 pages in suggests, on its face, that there is something about that model worth discussing." Putting aside how many posts are people saying the OP is too think skinned, some people are offended: so what?
If the issue is that some people are genuinely offended, or genuinely think some crazy things, then nothing is safe. As Nuggz and Pluan4th point out, we could, if we so chose, find hundreds, perhaps thousands of pages of people on the internet making in all earnestness the argument that Israel is morally and in all other ways indistinguishable from Nazi Germany. Those people really believe that... because they're crazy.
Again, it all comes down to context: at this particular guys local (in Germany*), this model is fine.
*Not continuing the Nazi thing there, more pointing out that the Germans are famously not too hung up on nudity taboos.
Wait, how is it that everything is about context, but you are allowed to declare people's opinions and arguments as objectively crazy and wrong?
EDIT: Nevermind, from your later repeated attempts to link critique of the IDF to antisemitism(and implying there is no way whatsoever to distinguish between someone objecting to an IDF IG army because they hate Jews, or because of many, many other reasons), it's pretty evident where you're coming from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/04 03:55:52
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-----
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2014/10/04 12:42:34
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
The main thing that annoys me with that land raider model is I don't see why strippers would be on a Khorne land raider. If it was a Slaanesh one, it'd be way more valid and seem less juvenile. That just seems like a weak excuse to put strippers on your model. Lame.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
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2014/10/04 13:12:34
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
I see no runes of Khorne on that LR. It's painted red, but no runes. Also, to quote myself:
Azazelx wrote: So having caught up on the rest of this thread, the one thing that stands out to me and makes me shake my head a little is the repeated "well, if it were Slaanesh, it'd be okay!"
Let's look at a few things, shall we? The first girl is leaning on a great big fething axe. If it were a male figure, with all the covering of a set of furry speedos, people would think it were A-OK. if it were a nude male with that axe, some people would be ok with it as Khornate still, while others would be bleating on about Slaanesh. The other figure doesn't appear to have a weapon, and instead has stripper heels, but still, it's not a far cry from the Cult of Khaine. And lest we forget who Khaine is - and sometimes even referred to as an Aspect of Khorne (depending on who's writing that bit of the fluff at the time, the weather, phase of the moon, etc...)
So yeah. Blood-spattered, naked chicks with great big fuckin' axes fit pretty well with Khorne to me. Certainly as much as a male would.
slowthar wrote: The main thing that annoys me with that land raider model is I don't see why strippers would be on a Khorne land raider. If it was a Slaanesh one, it'd be way more valid and seem less juvenile. That just seems like a weak excuse to put strippers on your model. Lame.
I said this earlier...
"I see "in keeping with the fluff" to be irrelevant. Many many people take liberties with the fluff to create their own vision, just because GW wrote X has exposed boobies doesn't mean you have to give X exposed boobies and likewise doesn't mean it's any more inappropriate to give Y exposed boobies instead."
It makes almost no sense to me why it'd be fine for a Slaanesh model to have boobies but a different Chaos god wouldn't because who gives a feth what GW tells you your models should look like. Especially when this particular LR does have a specific theme of the Debauchery band... a band oddly enough who themed THEMSELVES off Khorne, one of their album covers was even drawn by one of the GW artists, but they do have lots of boobies in their videos.
(more than anything this thread has taught me about Debauchery, and no, I don't like their music )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/04 13:22:49
2014/10/06 03:00:32
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
The interesting thing is that 40k is the dark ages set in the future, so naked chaos soldiers and demon's flaunting their sexual organs, would be perfect to weaken the imperial morale because of their puritanical view of themselves.
Also Europeans have lesser issues with nudity than countries outside of Europe.
Allseeingskink but that is just it, all our hobbyists have a personal view on GW's fluff and it is that interpretation that molds our armies.
If an others view clashes with your morality or view on the fluff, though luck ( i mean that in a positive way ).
slowthar wrote: The main thing that annoys me with that land raider model is I don't see why strippers would be on a Khorne land raider. If it was a Slaanesh one, it'd be way more valid and seem less juvenile. That just seems like a weak excuse to put strippers on your model. Lame.
What bothers me is that the strippers are going to get blown to smithereens with the first volley in the battle.
slowthar wrote: The main thing that annoys me with that land raider model is I don't see why strippers would be on a Khorne land raider. If it was a Slaanesh one, it'd be way more valid and seem less juvenile. That just seems like a weak excuse to put strippers on your model. Lame.
What bothers me is that the strippers are going to get blown to smithereens with the first volley in the battle.
Jehan-reznor wrote: If an others view clashes with your morality or view on the fluff, though luck ( i mean that in a positive way ).
If someone finds nudity morally reprehensible then that's something I can accept.
What I find confusing is the idea that it is morally reprehensible or wrong or whatever... unless it's slaanesh then it's fine Then we're just letting GW decide what is and isn't ok and that is by far the most wrong
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/06 09:07:54
2014/10/06 09:56:53
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Jehan-reznor wrote: If an others view clashes with your morality or view on the fluff, though luck ( i mean that in a positive way ).
If someone finds nudity morally reprehensible then that's something I can accept.
What I find confusing is the idea that it is morally reprehensible or wrong or whatever... unless it's slaanesh then it's fine Then we're just letting GW decide what is and isn't ok and that is by far the most wrong
The problem with this Land Raider is that in execution its a load of junk. It really is poorly thought out.
It's just nude women in a cage on the side of a tank which has an oversize axe in the top of it - not to mention a working SMOKE GENERATOR! (something cool lost amidst a gakky model).
Even if it were pink and and with Emps children heraldry it would still be poor.
There is nothing that the side cages on this model say apart from stripper in a cage.
2014/10/06 10:07:12
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
I don't disagree that it's not a work of art, but that doesn't really make it any less valid in my eyes.
Is it just an excuse to have naked women? Maybe***, but then so is most everything that has naked women, it's hardly necessary, it's just done because the person who did it wanted to do it... kind of like everything else in fictional wargaming.
***(at least it IS following a theme and that theme has naked women).
2014/10/08 02:48:15
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
calamarialldayerrday wrote: Apart from the fact that a famous author's opinion on a picture of his own face holds no more weight than anyone else's simple text opinion, even if he is the currently Internet[sup]TM[/sup] approved nerdgod, the quotation from GRRM isn't even relevant. A penis entering a vagina is a consensual and enjoyable act for both parties, and even in the cases of rape in his books, he as an author is condemning their actions, The creator of this Land Raider may not be openly condoning sexual abuse, but he is depicting it in a way that is attempting to glamorise it. Regardless of whether or not that was his intention, the fact remains and creators of "art" or "product" or whatever you want to call it, should be aware of the implications of what they have created. If the intention is to offend, or to ignite controversy, that person better be prepared to defend their reasoning.
Actually that is the basis for western civilization, some peoples opinion matter more than your averages joe.
Feminism is a self defeating endeavor. It constantly brings up issues that for it to advance they ought to be laid to rest and not be issues any more.
Example, it makes a big deal about the first woman to be chosen president in country X. When real progress would have been made if no one actually cared that it was a woman.
Same is true here, want to paint naked women in SM be my guest, want to paint Men in SM be my guest. I would not give a gank about either, As long as the theme is appropriate for the situation (ie no kids around).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/08 02:50:59
2014/10/08 03:37:21
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
What I don't get is why anyone would do this to a Land Raider. Ripping out the Lascannons just to put in some stripper cages? That is stupid on so many levels.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
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1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2014/10/08 08:43:41
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I don't disagree that it's not a work of art, but that doesn't really make it any less valid in my eyes.
Is it just an excuse to have naked women? Maybe***, but then so is most everything that has naked women, it's hardly necessary, it's just done because the person who did it wanted to do it... kind of like everything else in fictional wargaming.
***(at least it IS following a theme and that theme has naked women).
Seeing the amount of porn in the world, pole dancers, lap dancers, prostitutes, the increased nudity in music clips, it doesn't surprice me that guys also need cheesecake in their 40K experience
TheCustomLime wrote: What I don't get is why anyone would do this to a Land Raider. Ripping out the Lascannons just to put in some stripper cages? That is stupid on so many levels.
...because they think it looks cool?
Isn't that enough? The Land Raider is already a completely stupid concept for a tank, it's less advanced than your average WW2 tank. In a sci-fi world like 40k, "because it looks cool" is reason enough to do anything.
2014/10/08 16:58:21
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
I don't mind nudity in gaming (or anywhere else for that matter). This particular model is piss poorly made in my opinion, but I have nothing against the concept.
"Empty your pockets and don't move"
2014/10/08 17:27:00
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
My opinion is that modern society is over the top sensitive and a big deal is made about pretty much anything. This is especially prevalent in social media which is filled with justice warriors who are often paradoxical themselves and have double standards.
I couldn´t care less if someones plastic miniature vehicle has female strippers on it, and if someone finds it offensive then they need bigger things to worry about. It´s so harmless I can´t even fathom how someone can get butthurt about that ( or the many other things that is made a huge deal about these days. )
and move on.
).
The Empire 
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