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2014/09/19 19:59:18
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
monders wrote: Offensive sexy Sci fi imagery? Have you seen Alien?
Worse. I've seen Howard the Duck.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/09/19 20:01:59
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Grimtuff wrote: Well, that's a bit tame. It's hardly the infamous Slaaneshi Hellcannon made from a dildo with a Daemonette riding the... erm, cannon's ammunition.
When you say ammunition, do you mean when it is leaving the weapon? Like that scene from Doctor Strangelove?
To be blunt I mean sperm.
I cannot seem to find a pic of it anywhere, but that was an offensive and sexually explicit model. For full disclosure the LR in question would warrant an eyeroll from me and probably thinking a few of the things said in this thread, but its pretty tame compared to the above or other stuff I've seen from Slaanesh forces unsurprisingly.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2014/09/19 20:02:12
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Eh, pretty tame. I think its cool in an artistic way, but losing the Lascannon sponsons for strippers sucks Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to me. As far as kids, I'm all for young adults getting into the game, but I think there should be a limit. 40K is a gory, nasty universe. It can be silly, but its usually not. Even some of the graphic design in the GW books can be gnarly.
I'd say this thing is cool to show off, but know your audience. If you feel there are people at your LGS who might be offended, don't bring it.
-DE- wrote: I wouldn't call it offensive, just plain juvenile. Oh, and it's as much "art" as a 16-year old spraying penises on walls, thinking he's edgy and anti-establishment. Some people simply never grow up.
By any reasonable metric it isn't offensive. Which isn't to say that anyone who finds themselves offended by it is wrong, simply that they perhaps should acknowledge that their view isn't necessarily the majority one.
By your metric it isn't offensive. Please don't make the mistake of thinking your views represent the rest of the world. You're on the same planet where women can be put in jail if they don't cover their hair in many countries.
Nah, I stand by what I said. I'm not saying it is impossible to be offended by it, I'm not saying it is wrong to be offended by it, but if you were to put this up for a poll, I'm confident that the majority wouldn't be offended at all.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
-DE- wrote: I wouldn't call it offensive, just plain juvenile. Oh, and it's as much "art" as a 16-year old spraying penises on walls, thinking he's edgy and anti-establishment. Some people simply never grow up.
By any reasonable metric it isn't offensive. Which isn't to say that anyone who finds themselves offended by it is wrong, simply that they perhaps should acknowledge that their view isn't necessarily the majority one.
By your metric it isn't offensive. Please don't make the mistake of thinking your views represent the rest of the world. You're on the same planet where women can be put in jail if they don't cover their hair in many countries.
Nah, I stand by what I said. I'm not saying it is impossible to be offended by it, I'm not saying it is wrong to be offended by it, but if you were to put this up for a poll, I'm confident that the majority wouldn't be offended at all.
Run your poll in the ME, Latin America, or most of Asia and get back to me.
Again, personally I don't find it offensive, just offensively stupid.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/19 20:05:28
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2014/09/19 20:06:54
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
LuciusAR wrote: Besides if you have no problem with the extreme violence and glorification of fascism that goes on in 40k but a bit of female flesh freaks you out, then I'd say you need to reassess your priorities.
Wargaming is at heart a rather UN PC hobby. Attempts to sanitise it will just make it dull.
I was going to say something like that, but you said it so much better. All I can think of is this now.
"Double D's bad, (DDs) the SS is good."
Basically mankind's saviours are worse than them and every other evil in the human history put together. But that is ok I guess, but heaven forbid any cleavage is shown.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
2014/09/19 20:17:35
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Run your poll in the ME, Latin America, or most of Asia and get back to me.
Yeah, we could ask them a bunch of other questions about Scottish Independence, American Gun control and the Oscar Pistorious trial at the same time as getting their predictions for the Ryder Cup.
Or simply canvas a demographic that was relevant to the topic at hand. (Which, going by the flags I see on Dakka, doesn't seem to include many residents of the areas you mention.)
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
cincydooley wrote: So flayed bodies and heads mounted to the tank: okay.
Some nekkid strippers in cages: so offensive.
I don't get the US lately.
TBH, speaking as an outsider, it has always appeared to have been thus. (In a generalised, stereotyped fashion)
The US has a distinctly prudish attitude from over here in Europe.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Maybe, WRT the UK, we have Mary Whitehouse to thank for that and imposing rather Protestant standards on the country for a long period of time, whether the majority agreed or not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/19 20:35:07
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Its utterly stupid and has no place in the hobby. If people need to be so surrounded by sex that they convert or buy nude models to place in their army they play at public stores with children they have a problem. Nobody wants to look at your ugly conversions pervert, go look at porn.
2014/09/19 20:39:53
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Its utterly stupid and has no place in the hobby. If people need to be so surrounded by sex that they convert or buy nude models to place in their army they play at public stores with children they have a problem. Nobody wants to look at your ugly conversions pervert, go look at porn.
Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?
Try reading the thread. There is no such person who has posted their own "sexually explicit" models in this thread, nor defended their existence to other posters. You are not really replying to anyone and you're just shouting at a wall.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2014/09/19 20:45:24
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Its utterly stupid and has no place in the hobby. If people need to be so surrounded by sex that they convert or buy nude models to place in their army they play at public stores with children they have a problem. Nobody wants to look at your ugly conversions pervert, go look at porn.
The legendary American liberal attitude towards sex, ladies and gentlemen!
If you HAD read the thread, you'd not only realise how your response was utterly ill informed, but that the timing of it in light of where the discussion was when you posted could not have painted it in a worse light.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Its utterly stupid and has no place in the hobby. If people need to be so surrounded by sex that they convert or buy nude models to place in their army they play at public stores with children they have a problem. Nobody wants to look at your ugly conversions pervert, go look at porn.
The legendary American liberal attitude towards sex, ladies and gentlemen!
If you HAD read the thread, you'd not only realise how your response was utterly ill informed, but that the timing of it in light of where the discussion was when you posted could not have painted it in a worse light.
The comedy gods move in mysterious ways....
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2014/09/19 20:50:13
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
I have to wonder at those who are offended by it... Which of the following are you offended by?
1) Nudity?
2) Sexism?
3) The fact you imagine someone masturbating as they made it?
Because my arguments against you depend on which one of those is the problem. Or is it something else entirely?
1) Do we think children old enough to see blood, death, gore and genocide should be forbidden from seeing nudity? Hmm...
2) Do we think that whilst it is fine to portray mass genocide of other (alien) species, total enslavement of entire human populations, the suppression of democracy, torture, etc, etc, the line must be drawn at the grimdark future being sexist?
3) I'll answer in two parts. What the hell makes you think the guy was sitting there jacking off as he painted it? Do you think he was shooting lasers as he painted those bits? And, if either of those things were true, which one might be your business? I'd be more concerned about someone using siege weaponry in my neighbourhood than someone spanking in private.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/19 20:53:07
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
If someone is playing a Slaanesh army I'd think risqué material would be fluffy. Same with Khorne and copious amounts of blood, gore and body parts. Or Nurgle and slime/vomit/worse slathered everywhere. Within reason of course. A graphic sex scene or something is uncalled for no matter what.
That land raider seems fairly tame IMHO.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/19 20:57:19
- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame
2014/09/19 20:58:01
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
I am disappointed. I was expecting dicks and gaping fanged hell vaginas everywhere when I read "sexually explicit."
Just a pair of bloodied pole dancers.
The only problem I see here is that a Khornate Landraider has strippers. They should be wearing more armor, not less!
What I have
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Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2014/09/19 21:01:06
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2014/09/19 21:05:59
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Its utterly stupid and has no place in the hobby. If people need to be so surrounded by sex that they convert or buy nude models to place in their army they play at public stores with children they have a problem. Nobody wants to look at your ugly conversions pervert, go look at porn.
I didn't know Space Marines had a White Knight chapter!
Seriously dude, its toy soldiers. So he has little strippers (who I can't even see nipples or bush on) in cages, worshipping Daemons. Shouldn't the heresy bother you more than some plastic nudes?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Its utterly stupid and has no place in the hobby. If people need to be so surrounded by sex that they convert or buy nude models to place in their army they play at public stores with children they have a problem. Nobody wants to look at your ugly conversions pervert, go look at porn.
Correction: It has no place in YOUR hobby.
Who the feth do you think you are to dictate to other people what they can and cannot do with their models, their PROPERTY?
2014/09/19 21:37:10
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
I wouldn't call it explicit. But I would say "what's the point?" It seems to be done just for pure shock value, or to try to be "edgy." But I just find such desperate attempts to be edgy childish.
I'd say the whoever did this conversion has perpetuated the stereotype of the creepy gamer with an unhealthy attitude to women, because the only way they could think to get them on the model was in cages, naked and dancing round poles...if you want women on your Chaos tank why not a female tank commander sticking out the hatch or female warriors clinging to the sides? Do followers of Khorne even care about sexuality as opposed to just hitting things with big axes?
And no, I'm not offended by sex/violence/swearing/Howard the Duck in art (delete where applicable)...I shouldn't even have to point that out. But the default role for women shouldn't be eye-candy.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/09/19 21:55:00
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics.
2014/09/19 21:38:17
Subject: Re:How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
To the OP, I don't find nudity on models to be offensive, but full disclosure, I have a Slaaneshi CSM/Daemons army with Raging Heroes not-Daemonettes and Mierce's Euraliya acting as a Greater Daemon (making me a little biased).
I have argued in the past that depictions of women in some gaming art and some miniatures is exploitative, and I think that can be a barrier to entry for some women. However, that opinion is reserved for artwork/models that depict a woman otherwise functioning in a manner similar to her male counterparts but dressed or posed in a sexual manner. So the ubiquitous high heels in combat, boob plate, stripper pole-poses and other cliche'd depictions of women that often grace our hobby world I find rather dumb.
But, if a setting has lust demons with penis arms and fire breathing vaginas in their eye sockets, well, then a mini or painting depicting said entity makes sense to me given the context of that entity within a particular setting. Strippers adorning a Khornate Land Raider inspired by a heavy metal band also makes sense to me in the context of Khorne and the devolution of humanity to its core, base desires when influenced by Chaos. If Vect can have slave girls riding around on his air skiff, why can't some Khornate warriors bring pole dancing cultists along to revel in the arterial spray of Khorne's defeated enemies?
2014/09/19 21:46:36
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
-DE- wrote: I wouldn't call it offensive, just plain juvenile. Oh, and it's as much "art" as a 16-year old spraying penises on walls, thinking he's edgy and anti-establishment. Some people simply never grow up.
By any reasonable metric it isn't offensive. Which isn't to say that anyone who finds themselves offended by it is wrong, simply that they perhaps should acknowledge that their view isn't necessarily the majority one.
I will have to disagree with you there Az. There's a perfectly reasonable objective basis on which to be offended by the model.
The model can be interpreted as an objectification of women. I do not personally have much of a problem with the model, but fair is fair. As the OP pointed out, one could look at the female miniatures in the model as being subordinated or sexually objectified. And yes, depicting scantily clad women in cages attached to a very aggressive-looking, masculine object suggests, on its face, that the women are being objectified. If someone has a problem with objectification of women, there is an objective basis on which to consider the model to objectify women.
Within this context the cage is rather significant.
One can interpret this model in plenty of other ways though.
I will also add that instances of the objectification of women within the 40K fictional universe would not, in themselves, excuse further acts of such objectification. Two wrongs do not make a right, and so forth.
Is the model worth getting in a tizzy about? No, not in my opinion. It aint the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. In the grand scheme of things, I wouldn't want my sons to be exposed to that sort of art without the benefit of parental guidance, so I do understand the OP's reaction to it. I am also glad that we are having a dialog about this, because it does at least suggest that artwork like the model under discussion is not so 'normative' as to avoid raising any eyebrows.
It aint the nudity, it aint the women, it aint the blood, it aint the skullz, it aint the smoke or the giant axe. It's the cages.
It is the fact that little persons who see depictions like that can begin to believe that the proper place for a woman is one in which they are deprived of power and agency.
Maybe the women in those cages are super-powerful sorceresses who birthed a daemon tank from their menstrual blood and are dealing out deathmetal-fueled justice to an army of anthropomorphic misogynistic pigs. While that would be bitchin', it is not readily apparent in the artwork, hence the objective basis on which to be offended.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/19 21:52:58
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2014/09/19 21:53:55
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
weeble1000 wrote: And yes, depicting scantily clad women in cages attached to a very aggressive-looking, masculine object
Aggressive looking, sure, but it can be argued that something that could be psychologically boiled down to a giant metal womb that protects its charges from harm isn't necessarily masculine in nature, treaded or not.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/19 21:55:32
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
2014/09/19 21:55:54
Subject: How do people feel about sexually explicit models?
Yet again, as with Frazzled, you make a perfectly sound and logical point, but are not offended yourself.
There are plenty of arguments for why someone may be offended, but very few, if any, who genuinely ARE offended.
So, I continue to stand by my point.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to me. As far as kids, I'm all for young adults getting into the game, but I think there should be a limit. 
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