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Mandragola wrote:

Hoodwink wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I'm not sold on reivers. I think that anything they can kill can be dealt with much more easily with dakka. Inceptors are the obvious alternative for getting rid of enemy infantry in hard to reach places. I might be biased because I play crimson fists, so ignore the enemy's cover.

Reivers are best at hitting dug-in targets behind cover. Cover isn't exactly the greatest but it still gives a pretty significant bonus against shooting that you can't really ignore. Things like camo cloak scouts, rangers, MEQ in cover, etc are all things you don't generally want to shoot at if you can get into CC with.

Sure, but as I said I play crimson fists. Those kinds of units can actually be shot down pretty easily if I've got some infantry with some AP on their guns. If anything, inceptors are kind of overkill and my intercessors can often get the job done. Scout snipers in cover get a 5+ save instead of a 2+, for example.

Reivers are not good for crimson fists. Agreed.

Its pretty much my conclusion as well as a imp fist player

would rather than inceptors or more hellblasters.

Reivers are really good for Templars, Blood Angels, and Raven guard, imo.

The main thing I'm looking at for them is an infantry blender unit that might make for a good Honor the Chapter target. Problem is that they do have quite limited effectiveness. The targets you want to send them against are things like cultists, Skitarii, Guardsmen, little bugs, etc. Those things aren't always available. Sometimes, given the matchups I get involved in, the squishiest target on the field is a Tau Battlesuit Commander, Plague Marines, things like that. Plague Marines laugh at Reivers.

I have just been running most Inceptors, Hellblasters, LT, Captain in Grav armor since the beginning of 8th ed. I haven't played with the latest rules though, so anything major I miss gents?

The last time I played I was debating about the anti-tank issue. I ran three dreads in addition to the above to mixed results, going to see if predators do any better.

So I've been staring at the Space Marine codex a bit too much instead of sleeping (largely due a combination of factors, like finding out that painting large amounts of gold is tedious for me, and seeing GW's video on painting Raptor OD Green Power Armour) and spent a fair amount of time to get fairly caught up on this thread. And since I didn't see any comments on relics, I figured I'd throw some in just because. I'm only touching over the vanilla ones because I haven't taken time to look over the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Deathwatch or Space Wolf options enough to consider if anything in there really works for a pure Primaris army, sorry.

Now most obviously the Armour Indomitus is most people's first "go to", especially on a Gravis Armour Captain (or basically any warlord). Definitely very solid, but not the only option, though I rank it very highly.

We'll skip the Shield Eternal since no one has storm shields in a pure Primaris list and just say that if you're taking the Primaris Ancient to give you a chance to make your opponent mad with Hellblasters, then take this relic. Take it even if you need to spend a CP to fit it into your list. Ignoring Morale is helpful for any unit, and a 3+ to get to Overcharge a second time is basically the most hilariously awesome combo you can muster.

Teeth of Terra is sadly useless due to no one having Chainswords, as is the Primarch's Wrath since no one has a boltgun (boo!).

Burning Blade is definitely to be considered if you like to be more aggressive with your HQ and throw them into melee. We have a fair amount of access to power swords, and while the damage is lower than a Gravis Captain's MC Power Sword, the extra strength and -5AP means it'll wound more constantly, and with making you suffer penalties for punching with your fist if you're not trying to see if you can perforate tanks with your fists.

The Tome of Malcador is basically not worth it unless you're running a small army with only a Librarian HQ choice for a tournament and want to squeeze in an extra power for TAC purposes, and even then it's not your best choice since the Librarian has better options available.

Salamander's Mantle may be the other go-to relic for durability, and if you don't feel like running the Indomitus Armour and play Sallies this is worth a look. T6 Gravis armour means that S3 is basically worthless shooting at you, alternatively use it on a regular Captain or Lieutenant to give them the benefits of Gravis Armour, but without losing the Wargear.

Sadly the Iron Hands don't get a working Relic for an all Primaris force, and neither do the Raven Guard (at least until we see Tech Marines and Jump Pack HQs make the Primaris conversion sometime in the future).

Mantle of the Stormseer looks incredibly useful for preventing your Librarian from being denied as easilly, and ups your odds of passing your test to cast. Sadly it doesn't reduce your chance of perils (since that happens if you roll doubles, not based on your final total) so it's not an auto-include, but if your main reason to bring a Librarian is to cast Smite and deny then this isn't a bad choice.

Sadly the Boltstorm Gauntlet isn't a Power fist (despite hitting just like one, yay technicalities) so the Fist of Vengence is also a must pass at this time. Sorry Crimson Fists.

Are you playing Ultramarines? Did you take a Captain, or upgrade him to a Chapter Master? Then you should be taking the Santic Halo. Not only does it bump you to a 3++ (the only source of it outside of the Indomitus Armour's one turn 3++), but it also gives you extra denial chances during your turn, which is great for blunting your opponent's chances of hurting you with Smite, or casting negatives to hit abilities. Basically this is one of the other auto-includes for a lot of people, and heavily worth considering, even if you're leaning more towards that 2+ armour save.

Crusader's Helm doesn't look exceptional on it's own. Sure 9" for re-rolling 1s or even all missed to-hits is good, but Chaplains locking down your Morale isn't bad, nor is the Ancient's banner pushing out to 9" (allowing you more room in buffing things without being too tightly lumped together if you're trying to support multiple units with the ability to make shots as models die). Basically, while it doesn't make your warlord's beefier, it increases unit synergy and gives you more movement to play with in how they support each other (as well as spread out to prevent deep-strikers).

The Spartean (which I keep wanting to spell/pronounce as "Spartan") actually has a home on regular Primaris Captains (no Gravis for you though), Lieutenants, Librarians, and Primaris Ancient (though you can probably get away with it on a Primaris Apothecary since the Absolver is a "bolt pistol" it feels off to do so). For all of these guys it's a straight upgrade to go from a regular one shot pistol, to a two shot one that has -1AP and does 2 Damage. The bonus of being able to potshot hidden characters (like Commissars, or IG Officers) with it is handy as well.

So definitely some decent options and things worth considering sprinkling into your army, and at least half of them are actually viable. A couple aren't, and of course, for a Primaris pure player, the others are just left out due to missing wargear options (for now at least).

Another aspect for the pure Primaris player to consider is definitely Warlord Traits. A lot of options between the core book and the vanilla codex but not as many to really consider honestly.

To be upfront, the core rulebook Warlord Traits are basically worthless to us. Everything they give us we do better. Just ignore these.

Angel of Death: Only worth considering if you're a very aggressive player who hits deep into the enemy and can force those Battleshock tests. Basically ignore if you regularly play against armies that ignore morale to some extent or another though.

The Imperium's Sword: Don't really take if you're playing Black Templars because all it gives you is +1 attack, making you lose out on half the benefit. Otherwise it's a good choice for more aggressive players who like to see their warlord punch people in the face. Not a bad combo with the Burning Blade since it means more quality attacks in melee though.

Iron Resolve: Congrats, you're now an Iron Hands Warlord! Oh, and you got +1 wound too. Not bad, not exceptional. Probably worth putting on a Gravis Captain with a Salamander's Cloak if you feel like mocking your opponent with your now even harder to get rid of Warlord.

Storm of Fire: I honestly see a couple of good places to take this. First is with an HQ who is buffing Aggressors (especially with Raven Guard using SFTS to bring them in right next to something you want to make turn into a fine red mist), or with Hellblasters. Mostly because -1 for Aggressors is very helpful while -5 makes Hellblasters even scarier for stuff with decent armour saves. Basically take this on a Warlord who is buffing something shooty for maximum effect. Also hilarious to use it to buff a Repulsor since the volume of fire could easily mean getting 6s. I want to say this should stack with the Black Templar's Crusader Helm, and if so it's basically a strong shooting army choice. And no, the irony of Black Templars having strong gunline armies isn't lost on me. Imperial Fists may want to consider pairing this with Bolter Drill to try and stack additional shots (mainly from Aggressors who haven't moved for maximum effect), and the greater chance at boosting AP values.

Rites of War: Only consider if you run max sized units and often face armies that force your morale down (Night Lords, certain Eldar builds, ect) to force casualties through Battleshock. Otherwise we have better options.

Champion of Humanity: One of the other aggressive player choices. Sadly character hunting is not a Primaris strong suit, and this is best left off to the side for now.

Ultramarine's Adept of the Codex: Worth considering if you run Guilliman, or if you just like using CP a lot (likely for re-rolls since that's the most common usage). More situational for an all Primaris army than a regular Marine army though.

White Scar's Deadly Hunter: Without Primaris Bikes or Character Jump Packs we're not going to see this outside of the most aggressive armies. If you're regularly throwing your HQ into melee every single turn, then it's probably worth a try, but until we see bikes or at least a jump pack option this isn't going to be a very strong option for now.

Imperial Fists' Architect of War: Regularly fighting other Primaris armies? Or regularly getting pinged with -1 AP values? Basically only worth taking based on your local meta. For a more gunline based army like Imperial Fists, Storm of Fire is a stronger choice unless you need to make your warlord better at staying alive.

Crimson Fists' Tenacious Opponent: Do you like to play aggressively with your HQ and throw him into melee a lot? Really like stabbing people with burning swords? Basically, unless you're fighting Custodes armies on the regular, this will likely come into play more often. Especially if hordes are more common in your meta.

Black Templars' Oathkeeper: Another option to boost the Black Templar gunline as it allows your HQ to counter charge more easily when your shooty units get engaged in combat during the game. No, I don't know why GW gave the Templars all the shooting support rules either.

Salamanders' Anvil of Strength: Pair with a burning blade for an S8 warlord. Alternatively, hit at S10 with a Gravis Captain's fist. Either is pretty good if you need some extra punch in melee. Definitely promotes a more aggressive HQ option, or at least one who can help break tanks since we don't have a lot of ways to do it. Pairing with the Salamander's cloak and a burning blade with a Gravis Captain basically lets you make a Primarch Vulkan Hestan (minus his special rules, but you get what I'm going at here I think).

Raven Guard's Silent Stalker: Only use if you throw your Warlord into melee A. LOT. And even then, why aren't you just using Reivers to negate Overwatch, or charging after another unit has engaged, or charging from outside of Line of Sight (you only need to see to shoot, not charge after all)? Basically this is not a strong contender for a Primaris army if only for the lack of solid ways to throw an HQ into melee without some kind of support. Strike from the Shadows definitely makes it possible, but that just seems like a poor way to get your HQ into melee on it's own. Basically if your Warlord is getting into combat by himself as part of an Alpha Strike tactic you've done something horribly wrong and this won't help you enough anyways. Pass for something like the Imperium's Sword if you want an Alpha Striking HQ choice as re-rolls to charge are definitely more important if you want to Alpha Strike and tie up parts of your opponent's army early in the game. Better on a model like Shrike who has a jump pack to make crossing larger distances to set up for a charge easier and can rely instead on using this to lead the charge and protect other supporting units instead. On Primaris though the HQs lack the speed needed to make this work as effectively and basically it just falls short in an all Primaris list.

Iron Hands' Merciless Logic: Bonus attacks are never innately bad, and this is a lot better than wasting half of Iron Resolve, but this is a fairly weak option to consider. I presume it works for shooting attacks, and with a model that hits on 2s it can get a fair number of 6s over the course of a game, especially when paired with a Captain who allows you to re-roll those ones to hit. The lack of synergy with other parts of your army make this rank lower than Storm of Fire for me though.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Sadly the Boltstorm Gauntlet isn't a Power fist (despite hitting just like one, yay technicalities) so the Fist of Vengence is also a must pass at this time. Sorry Crimson Fists.

This is actually incorrect. Since the release of the store birthday Primaris Captain we've been able to swap out a captain's equipment for a plasma pistol and power fist. This power fist can then be replaced with the fist of vengeance. The most recent FAQ adds the option to the codex. I've modeled mine waving an ork's head around - obviously.

The option to take this relic is arguably the main reason to play Crimson Fists at all. The normal Primaris Captain's equipment options are very lacklustre, but being able to take a fist with no penalty to hit and a fixed 3 damage changes that, a lot. For best results have your librarian cast might of heroes on the guy, and give him the warlord trait with +1A on the charge and rerolls of charge distances.

Good summary otherwise.

Mandragola wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Sadly the Boltstorm Gauntlet isn't a Power fist (despite hitting just like one, yay technicalities) so the Fist of Vengence is also a must pass at this time. Sorry Crimson Fists.

This is actually incorrect. Since the release of the store birthday Primaris Captain we've been able to swap out a captain's equipment for a plasma pistol and power fist. This power fist can then be replaced with the fist of vengeance. The most recent FAQ adds the option to the codex. I've modeled mine waving an ork's head around - obviously.

The option to take this relic is arguably the main reason to play Crimson Fists at all. The normal Primaris Captain's equipment options are very lacklustre, but being able to take a fist with no penalty to hit and a fixed 3 damage changes that, a lot. For best results have your librarian cast might of heroes on the guy, and give him the warlord trait with +1A on the charge and rerolls of charge distances.

Good summary otherwise.

Hm, I'll need to get that update since all I've got is the digital copies of the codex and chapter approved at the moment to work off of. Yeah, that makes it a LOT better for Crimson Fists and worth taking (as well as that model is worth taking).

I honestly haven't been paying a lot of attention to Marines until very recently so I missed that release (and the only one I've seen at my FLGS was the Veteran Sergent Primaris Model).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Sadly the Boltstorm Gauntlet isn't a Power fist (despite hitting just like one, yay technicalities) so the Fist of Vengence is also a must pass at this time. Sorry Crimson Fists.

This is actually incorrect. Since the release of the store birthday Primaris Captain we've been able to swap out a captain's equipment for a plasma pistol and power fist. This power fist can then be replaced with the fist of vengeance. The most recent FAQ adds the option to the codex. I've modeled mine waving an ork's head around - obviously.

The option to take this relic is arguably the main reason to play Crimson Fists at all. The normal Primaris Captain's equipment options are very lacklustre, but being able to take a fist with no penalty to hit and a fixed 3 damage changes that, a lot. For best results have your librarian cast might of heroes on the guy, and give him the warlord trait with +1A on the charge and rerolls of charge distances.

Good summary otherwise.

Hm, I'll need to get that update since all I've got is the digital copies of the codex and chapter approved at the moment to work off of. Yeah, that makes it a LOT better for Crimson Fists and worth taking (as well as that model is worth taking).

I honestly haven't been paying a lot of attention to Marines until very recently so I missed that release (and the only one I've seen at my FLGS was the Veteran Sergent Primaris Model).

Sure. Here’s the FAQ.

Note also that some points values changed in chapter approved. If you've got the enhanced edition codex then those values will have updated automatically. I'm not sure if the Epub did the same. My enhanced edition book doesn't seem to have updated yet with the captain's new wargear options (or those for Intercessor sergeants), but they are in the dark angel and blood angel books.

Hoodwink wrote:

PandatheWarrior wrote:

grouchoben wrote:
Reivers need grapples and knives, they dont really work without them. Grapples allow you to deepstrike onto cover at 9", but charge at a lot less than 9, as you ignore height when measuring movement. Or DS onto groundlevel and assault units bunkered up in buildings for the same effect... My Reivers don't have to make more than 6" tops: Id rather keep them in reserve than roll 9+.

Can yu explain how can their charge roll can be less than 9'', i don't get it.

Let's say your opponent has ruins near a board edge. He deploys a unit on the third floor. You can then come in from reserves on the ground level off the board edge and be 9" inches away. However, when you move, you will disregard the height in measuring distances. So the enemy unit could be 9" away, but only 3" or 4" away when you disregard height in the calculation and only measure horizontally to determine charge range.

Sorry to revisit this - do you are measuring vertical distance in the 9" away? e.g. a unit is 6" up in a building. Reivers can deploy 3" from buildings base?

Thanks for the link! My iPad is kerput, so I just have the epub one on my laptop, but I think you can re-download those for updates.

Been thinking of just shelling out for a paper copy though since those are more convenient for games.

 Swan-of-War wrote:

Hoodwink wrote:

PandatheWarrior wrote:

grouchoben wrote:
Reivers need grapples and knives, they dont really work without them. Grapples allow you to deepstrike onto cover at 9", but charge at a lot less than 9, as you ignore height when measuring movement. Or DS onto groundlevel and assault units bunkered up in buildings for the same effect... My Reivers don't have to make more than 6" tops: Id rather keep them in reserve than roll 9+.

Can yu explain how can their charge roll can be less than 9'', i don't get it.

Let's say your opponent has ruins near a board edge. He deploys a unit on the third floor. You can then come in from reserves on the ground level off the board edge and be 9" inches away. However, when you move, you will disregard the height in measuring distances. So the enemy unit could be 9" away, but only 3" or 4" away when you disregard height in the calculation and only measure horizontally to determine charge range.

Sorry to revisit this - do you are measuring vertical distance in the 9" away? e.g. a unit is 6" up in a building. Reivers can deploy 3" from buildings base?

You measure the distance between the models directly in a straight line, so if the enemy was 6" up you'd have to be more than 3" away horisontally (though I'm not going to bother doing the Pythagoras!).

But then when you come to charge you only measure the horisontal distance and ignore the vertical distance entirely. In theory, you can get some very short charge distances. In reality, it's pretty easy for your opponent to prevent by just putting someone else on the ground floor.

 Swan-of-War wrote:

Hoodwink wrote:

PandatheWarrior wrote:

grouchoben wrote:
Reivers need grapples and knives, they dont really work without them. Grapples allow you to deepstrike onto cover at 9", but charge at a lot less than 9, as you ignore height when measuring movement. Or DS onto groundlevel and assault units bunkered up in buildings for the same effect... My Reivers don't have to make more than 6" tops: Id rather keep them in reserve than roll 9+.

Can yu explain how can their charge roll can be less than 9'', i don't get it.

Let's say your opponent has ruins near a board edge. He deploys a unit on the third floor. You can then come in from reserves on the ground level off the board edge and be 9" inches away. However, when you move, you will disregard the height in measuring distances. So the enemy unit could be 9" away, but only 3" or 4" away when you disregard height in the calculation and only measure horizontally to determine charge range.

Sorry to revisit this - do you are measuring vertical distance in the 9" away? e.g. a unit is 6" up in a building. Reivers can deploy 3" from buildings base?

In your example of the 6" tall building, you'd deploy 9" away on a diagonal. So using maths (a^2+b^2=c^2, or in this case we use c^2-b^2=a^2 to work out the horizontal distance you'd need to be away to get the diagonal distance right), we can find that your charge distance would be 6.7" away, or a 6" charge (because of the free inch to complete charges you don't need to roll a 7 or better, just a 6 or better on 2d6 which gives you a 72.22% chance of making a charge, verses the 27.77% chance of making a 9" charge. Definitely a major improvement for the unit, even without re-rolls).

OK, I was just thinking that you had to be 9" away from the base of the building for some reason.

Nope you don't.

If they have grapnels you ignore vertical distance, so you could deploy 9" away diagonally but need a 3" charge.

So you batman in?

sounds cool.

I got a squad of Lootas that way!

Reivers, especially with carbines are not to be underestimated.

 Desubot wrote:
So you batman in?

sounds cool.

Spider guy, Spider guy, does whatever a spider guy does!

Seriously though, it definitely makes them actually useful. Dropping them onto a building with grav chutes and then grappel launching yourself into combat is basically the best way to use them.

I don't even pay for the chutes. Keep em cheap.

So, it seems like the FAQ got updated today, and now I'm confused. It reads: ‘The Intercessor Sergeant may either replace their bolt rifle with a power sword, or take a power sword in addition to their other weapons."

So can they have both the bolt rifle AND the power sword, or must they replace it? Cause if they can't have both, I'll have to re-model my sergeants, which would be a pain in the .

Im not seeing any updated FAQs link?

But in that line it says you ether do a or B

and B lets you just buy a powersword in addition to what he already has so i dont think you need to remodel anything.

I just used the link that was posted earlier in this thread. It was just updated today, so they probably haven't updated the community site yet.

But okay, if you can still take them all, why would you ever replace a bolt rifle with a power sword? A bolt rifle costs all of 0 points, so why not take it?

So I figured I'd do a quick rundown of the Primaris specific changes since that's mostly what we care about:

Page 141 – Primaris Captain, Wargear Options
Change the second bullet point to read:
‘This model may take a power sword, or replace its master-crafted auto bolt rifle and bolt pistol with a power fist and a plasma pistol.’

We knew about this one and it mostly benefits Crimson Fits since the Gravis Captain already had a power mitt of his own. That said, if you have the cool model then this will let you play him so it's not bad.

Page 148 – Intercessor Squad, Wargear Options
Change the third bullet point to read:
‘The Intercessor Sergeant may either replace their bolt rifle with a power sword, or take a power sword in addition to their other weapons.’

Not sure what this changed since I'm not sitting at home in front of my digital copy (seriously need to put that on my laptop too or just get the paper copy for when I'm not home), but I'm not sure why you'd swap his rifle for the sword. Basically, other than points for the most streamlined lists, this does nothing to really help your Sergeant.

Page 166 – Redemptor Dreadnought
Change the description to read:
‘A Redemptor Dreadnought is a single model equipped with a heavy onslaught gatling cannon, heavy flamer, two fragstorm grenade launchers and a Redemptor fist.’

Page 166 – Redemptor Dreadnought, Wargear Options
Add a new bullet point as follows:
‘This model may take an Icarus rocket pod.’

Looks like some minor ommission corrections I think, but someone correct me if I'm wrong since I don't have a codex happy for exact loadout options.

Page 196 – Born in the Saddle
Add the following sentence:
‘In addition, that unit does not suffer the penalty to hit rolls for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

White Scar Primaris just gained a new lease on life. Load up on Assault Weapons and run your twin hearts out. Still doesn't make us -fast- but it does at least give the army some more mobility, especially when compared to other foot lists.

Page 197 – Bolter Drill
Change the first two sentences to read:
‘Use this Stratagem just before an Imperial Fists Infantry unit attacks in the Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, each time you make a hit roll of 6+ for a model from that unit firing a bolt weapon, that model can immediately make another hit roll using the same weapon at the same target (these bonus attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks).’

I feel like this is just a slight rewording to try and make the intent of how it works clearer. So basically no changed.

Page 197 – Flamecraft
Change the first two sentences to read:
‘Use this Stratagem just before a Salamanders unit attacks in the Shooting phase. Until the end of the phase, add 1 to the wound rolls made for all of that unit’s flame weapons.’

More cleaning up intent, and likely shutting down using this on Overwatch if it didn't have that restriction before.

Page 202 – Librarius Discipline, Might of Heroes
Change the third sentence to read:
‘Until the start of your next Psychic phase, add 1 to that model’s Strength, Toughness and Attacks characteristics (if an attack hits a unit that has more than one Toughness characteristic, use the unit’s lowest Toughness characteristic when making the resultant wound roll).’

More clarification, though I'm not sure if we have any multiple toughness units left in the game since GW has pretty heavily split things up.

Q: Can successor Chapters use the Warlord Traits of their
founding Chapter?
A: No.

I find this, very, very silly. We have literally thousands of chapters and yet only founding chapters seem to be able to operate specific ways and have access to specific relics (are they really telling me the Raptors don't a nice Jump Pack of their own, or that an Ultramarines successor wouldn't be just as tactically competent as their parent chapter?). I mean I get this is to cut down on abuse of using armies to be a flavor of the month thing, but it still kicks less power-creep chasing players in the teeth a bit.

Yeah, the power sword one confuses me from a language standpoint, but the warlord trait change confuses me from a rule-writing standpoint.

It's like they are saying "Okay, you can make a successor chapter like always, but now you'll give up tactical benefits if you want to have your own name and color scheme."

Seems kind of messed up.

I suspect the successor tactic one is to stop Black Templar players from using Imp Fist. stuff. And other later founding chapters that have been fleshed out with their own rules/stuff.

The sword bit is probably so stock models can be fielded WYSWYG with no converting. Not sure if there is one with that particular config though.

I've been rolling around an aggressive Raptors themed army plan. Since the Chapter Master doesn't mesh with Primaris I'm not really looking to mesh him up into a list for the sake of just trying to mesh him into a list since his only buff is slightly faster movement to the army and the CM reroll.

Basically I'm looking at SFTS both a Gravis Captain and Bolter Aggressors, dropping in Reivers and Inceptors normally during Turn 1, and supporting the army with a Repulsor paired with a Librarian and a squad of Hellblasters and Inceptors for support and anti-armour.

Though, I am considering sprinkling in Scouts depending how the list works on its own. While they don't have the Primaris rule, they do provide some some cheap screeners (and can be run with Sniper Rifles if you need to plink characters) and basically give the army some options it doesn't have baked in since there doesn't seem to be a fluff (or even rules) difference between Primaris Scouts and regular Scouts right now.

EDIT: I'm starting my army with the Know No Fear box plus a Combat Squad box of Reivers. It's not a lot, but it's a solid core and a fair number of points for the RF versions. I want to like the heavy bolter choice since it would fit the Raptor's theme of being good shots, but honestly it doesn't do enough to make me interested in it. Basically I'm coming down to either Assault or RF versions of the Hellblasters and Intercessors as being the best choice, but I haven't decided if kiting with Assault weapons is really better for the army than pushing in an shooting followed by charging to try and clean up targets I've shot up.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
White Scar Primaris just gained a new lease on life. Load up on Assault Weapons and run your twin hearts out. Still doesn't make us -fast- but it does at least give the army some more mobility, especially when compared to other foot lists.

It only works on bikes...

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
White Scar Primaris just gained a new lease on life. Load up on Assault Weapons and run your twin hearts out. Still doesn't make us -fast- but it does at least give the army some more mobility, especially when compared to other foot lists.

It only works on bikes...

Well that sucks the fun out of it. Also I don't look at White Scars often enough to know their rules clearly. I apparently need to fix that.