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2020/08/24 15:04:20
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
I did not know it overwrote the corw rules. That makes it a whole lot better though.
But what infantery units are you using to do it, or do you just race it turn 2? Or am I missing something. Bikes, units inside transports and sentinels can not do it.
I know nids have the move twice stratagem, as well as garcoyles moving 12.
I would really like for something to have the scout move and beeing infatery. Or just deploy onto the map. Perhaps rattlings have that? I do not wanne buy IG models though.
A bare bones acolyte squad that dies easily if your opponent shoots at it. Its not great but I also don't want to devote a ton of points to units performing actions.
2020/08/24 17:07:21
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Yeah, a min-sized Acolyte squad, or Neophyte Squad. A Nexos is particularly helpful with Actions since none of his abilities are Auras. Really any units whose main strength is being somewhere more than doing something, which unfortunately covers a large number of our units. Still, it's something.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2020/08/24 17:56:10
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Resipsa131 wrote: Following up on secondaries I've found that Raise the Banners and Engage on all fronts is okay if you want to run MSUGSC. I tried running linebreaker, peirce the veil, and repair teleport homer and it just doesn't work because you can't sit back there against even the most aggressive midboard lists.
Just to make sure, I do not know if you are doing it, but I see a lot of people talk about raise the banners. Only one units from your army can do the same action per round. (Page 77 on the GT2020.) Is it not very hard to get a bunch of points of raise the banners?
Raise the Banners has a special exception written into the Secondary itself that allows you to do the same action with multiple units in the same turn. It's a REALLY hard objective though; since any enemy unit getting close topples the banner. It's only useful if you either KNOW you can lock your opponent in, or if you want to create an extra incentive for your opponent to over-extend.
Its a bit harder then any unit getting close. They need to control the objective at the start of any phase. So for non-obsec units they need to wipe your troop squad on the objective, which granted isn't that hard with GEQ bodies but more then just getting close.
2020/08/25 11:41:17
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Yarium wrote: Yeah, a min-sized Acolyte squad, or Neophyte Squad. A Nexos is particularly helpful with Actions since none of his abilities are Auras. Really any units whose main strength is being somewhere more than doing something, which unfortunately covers a large number of our units. Still, it's something.
Unfortunately? That's honestly a thing I'm liking about GSC more than any of my other armies, it's trivially easy to get action-doers into my lists so I'm not dependent on my opponents not playing marines to deny me any killing secondary. Locus, min aco squad, Nexos, Sanctus with knife, brood bros, I love all these guys as little super el cheapo action do-er squads that can also go be reasonable in combat if there's no action to do. The locus especially has been MVP for me in that regard, he's repaired that Homer more than Marge Simpson at this point.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/25 12:30:27
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Had another game yesterday where my opponent wanted to run a bunch of tacticals, and we decided to try out the new old-marine rules with him running a purposefully fairly plain jane marine list. We went for +4pts per model on regular marine bodies, +8pts per model on terminator bodies. His list was Iron Hands, with a captain, lieutenant, assault cannon Razorbacks containing double Plasma tactical squads, a Vindicator, a Laspred, some Devastators, some Assault Marines, an ironclad and a regular dread, and some Tactical Termies. Super super classic old marines list, running with the extra wound but purposefully leaning in to weapons we knew wouldn't be changing.
I ran a Battalion of Bladed Cog:
Jackal Alphus (Single Minded)
Primus
Magus+Familiar (5+ FNP and Might from Beyond)
7x Jackals+1 Incinerator Quad, demo charge on the jackal sarge
2x Ridgerunners
5x Aberrants, 4 picks 1 Improvised
Locus
Kelermorph
Magus hopped in the Rockgrinder with the min acolytes, primus and 20x acos deep struck, everything else started on the board. During my opponent's deployment I was able to use obscuring terrain to stick basically everything I had out of LOS of the devastators, who my opponent deployed early.
I chose Bring it Down (plenty of opposing vehicles to max that), Engage on All Fronts and Repair Teleport Homer. We played a Hammer and Anvil mission on a board with a bunch of ruins and some of the Ryza Ruin Walls that we used as "Small Ruin Walls" to get dense cover on the board. My opponent chose Thin Their Ranks, Raise the Banners, and Assassinate.
I deployed the goliaths except for the flamer goliath and ridgerunners behind one building, and the flamer goliath, jackals and rockgrinders behind another building. He put a big parking lot in the middle of the board, dreads off to either side, devs and pred in the back. he won the roll to go first.
Devs had no good shot and ended up moving to shoot jackals, and a Razorback also got a shot on jackals, ending with only 1 biker, the quad, and the sarge left, which would become the quad and the sarge after morale. Laspred moved to shoot the rockgrinder with the magus in it and left it with 3 wounds. Most other vehicles popped smoke.
I'd specified the predator as single minded obsession target, and it hadn't popped smoke so the gunsy vehicles all rolled into the ruin to target that with the jackal, and it went down. The rockgrinders moved up with the injured one advancing and ending behind obscuring terrain with respect to most of the enemy army and the other one taking shots with the remainder of my firepower at the one Razorback that had shot instead of popping smoke, which also went down thanks to a lucky roll with a mining laser that dealt 6 damage with none of it being ignored. I also flung basically every heavy stubber at the devastators, which did end up killing one but it was the sergeant.
On my opponent's turn, he focused fire primarily on the rockgrinders, fully destroying the one he hadn't damaged with shooting and the squad and magus inside, and a dreadnought charged and destroyed the damaged one in assault, popping out the aberrants. Deep strikers came in but none successfully charged, the assault squad was now in my back corner though.
On my turn, the two heroic jackals moved in and popped close range firefight, rolling a great 4 hits with the demo charge to kill 3/5 of the assault marines. Locus dropped in way behind enemy lines and started repairing the homer while the kelermorph popped in next to him and shot up 3/4 of the remaining devs. My deep strikers came in, perfect ambushed, and made the multicharge into his Terminators and Vindicator, and my guns brought down a squad of marines that were trying to perform the center of the board action, the second dreadnought, and did some damage to a razorback. The Aberrants happily ate the dreadnought that had killed their Dozer Pal, and my opponent did interrupt with the terminators and kill 6 acolytes but with Overthrow the Oppressors they did kill the vindicator and 2 of the terminators.
On my opponent's turn, he disembarked basically all his units, moved his assault marines onto my backline objective, and basically dedicated his turn to killing my aberrants, acolytes, and a ridgerunner, but he has managed to score very few points at this point.
After that point the game basically just boiled down to "I used all the D2 shooting weaponry still left in my army to wipe out all the marine infantry, and I had more vehicles than he had so he couldn't hold objectives with the stuff he had left." He killed my other ridgerunner so basically I had the primus, the alphus, thekelermorph, the locus, and 4 goliaths running around headbutting razorbacks. Fairly low scoring game overall since neither of us got a lot of primary points, like 50 to 20 ish.
My overall impression is that post-W2 marines, D1 weapons just will not be worth anything and units will just be defined by the weapons they have that can whack a marine in a turn. incidental weaponry that you're required to take like stubbers, seismics at longer range, and autoguns to fill out neophyte squads will be plenty to bring down what little light infantry you face, and the purpose of bringing a squad should be what heavy weapons you bring with it. Between seismic+heavy seismic, rock saws, autocannons, the Kelermorph, the Locus, etc, I think we can bring plenty of flat 2/flat 3 to the table to get that done.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/25 12:33:29
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/26 13:03:30
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
I found this podcast on GSC. 70 or 90 models aside, they talk about a list that I think sounds super cool.
However, I do not understand how to build the list. Can anybody help? The plan is to deepstrike 3 characters on an objective with 50 neophytes with mining lasers. And a gunslinger with shotgun nephytes to block the enemy inn.
But I have a hard time building the list theoretically. 50% of the points and the units have to start on the table. The list cna cheat a bit by having return to the shadows. But I am unsure if it is a legal list.
My current list could do it. Here's the dumbness that I'm currently trying (suggestions welcome, but this list is basically based on what I own, and I'm shy on some obvious things):
GSC Bladed Cog Brigade:
1x Patriarch
1x Primus
1x Iconward
2x 5-man Acolytes w/Mining weapons
3x 10-man Acolytes w/Mining weapons (1 w/banner)
4x 10-man Neophytes w/Mining weapons and special weapons
1x 9-man Brood Brother Infantry Squad w/Mortar & Grenade Launcher
1x Nexos
1x Locus
1x Kelermorph
3x 1-man Ridgerunners
1x Brood Brother Heavy Weapons Team (Lascannons)
2x Goliath Rock Grinders
Since my group plays with the massive 19 pieces of terrain on the table (lots of Obscuring and Dense terrain), I can honestly march units pretty effectively, and nearly the whole army is 6+ FnP, with all the infantry having at least a 6+ Inv. 4-Armed Emperor Willing we stop being one of the only 2 factions to not have their vehicles have traits, then the whole army can be 6++/6+++.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/26 16:19:49
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
2020/08/27 16:08:10
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Here is the list Alex talked about the in menioned podcast.
This is the list he Described.
Note that he probably did make a msitake as the Patriarch should be in the Battalion Detachment, and the Iconward should be in the Patrol Dectahment to get an exstra CP.
If we do this this list uses these cp pregame:
Ekstra Patrol Dectachment -2 cp.
Ekstra Relic -1 cp.
Broodcoven -1 cp.
The Cults Psyke (upgrade psyker) -1 cp. Means we start in 7 cp in that case.
First detachement is bladed cog. Second detcahment is mixed. Rideruner and Alpha there are Hivecult. Sanctus and 5 man squad of acultes is 4 armed emperor. This unlocks Stratagem – Chilling Efficiency – 2CP for the riderunners, and Stratagem – A Plan Generations in the Making – 3CP. You do not need them unless in a very competetive setting. So far the list is in fact legal.
What I am unsure though is what you put into deepstrike reserves. My suggestion based in the podcast is this:
Magus 100
Iconward 60
Alpha (Bladed Cog) 75
Neophites mining lasers 1 80
Neophites mining lasers 2 80
Neophites mining lasers 3 80
Neophites mining lasers 4 80
Neophites mining lasers 5 80
Neophytes Shotgun (Pure Bladed Cog) 120
Kelle Morph 80
That is 835 points. Leaving 165 for a flex slot. My thoughts of this is down here.
You can not fit the Rocksaw group into that (as it is 190 points.) Mind you this is an asumption of mine. But Alex speaks about deepstriking 60 Neophites so I gues he sometimes drop Neophite mining laser squad 5 to include the Rocksaw group.
If you do not deepstrike the rocksaws, you can deepstrike the second shotgun squad (120) and 4-armed emperor 5 man squad of 5 acolytes (40 points.)
With two lying in wait stratagems (turn 2 and 3) your essential has a plan for 9 of your CP. Leaving 6 out of the 17 you get thorugh the game.
If you deepstrike the rocksaws and want to use a perfect ambush stratgagem you have a plan for 8 of your CP. Leaving 7 out of the 17 you get through the game.
...can you take SIX heavy rock saws in what looks like a 15 man acolyte squad? Damn, I did not realize that, I thought they capped out at 4 per squad good lord.
The list seems interesting, I think definitely it's a counter-meta list because EVERYONE will be teching to take down W2 marines if they aren't already doing that. I think the only thing I'd worry about is...well, that, S3 firepower is super inefficient for dealing with marines and they typically only have like 3 vehicles in their lists,and you have 10+6d3 lascannon shots and basically just the Kelermorph designed to take down MEQs.
I wonder what the Magus is going to be doing, since he seems to have Undying Vigor but the Acolytes are not in the same cult as him.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/31 12:52:53
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The 6 ridrunners and 2. alfa are Hive Cult. The 5 man squad of hybrids and sanctus are 4 armed emperor. The rest is stil BC. While they do not get their bonus save, they do stil have the keyword. And thus can be targeted for psykick powers.
I am stil very sceptical for having points to use all the fansy stratagems you get from splitting like that.
Niiai wrote: You missunderstand. Only 5 units are not in BC.
The 6 ridrunners and 2. alfa are Hive Cult. The 5 man squad of hybrids and sanctus are 4 armed emperor. The rest is stil BC. While they do not get their bonus save, they do stil have the keyword. And thus can be targeted for psykick powers.
I am stil very sceptical for having points to use all the fansy stratagems you get from splitting like that.
ah, I get it now.
Yeah. Hmmm. I wonder if that's useful.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/08/31 13:26:54
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Niiai wrote: When you start counting in the CP, and consider you max get +1 to hit I do not think so. But this Alex says it was a good list.
Yeah, I just don't know. I question the utility of not just splitting the patrol into a detachment of CTFAE, and I just do not think the average opponent will have enough stuff you need to shoot lascannons at to make THAT many mining lasers worth it.
This reads to me like a list made by someone who read what the best 3 units were and just decided to throw them on the table. Or it reads like an 8th ed list, where you could have like 18cp pretty easily. You're going to want...
-Chilling Efficiency, Ridgerunners
-A perfect Ambush+Overthrow, Acolytes
-Lying in Wait, 20x Neophytes (I assume they're being used as a block/screen here, stringing them across the board in front of enemy units 3" away)
-Plan Generations in the Making
11CP you're absolutely going to want to use, and you start with 7. That's veeery little wiggle room.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, why do people seem to think Goliaths are a bad get for 85pts? Autocannons are pretty hot rn in the world of 2w marines everywhere, and Open Topped with their speed means you can use Seismic instead of Mining if you want.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 13:41:53
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/09/01 08:08:47
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
I made a statement during the 2nd half of 8th ed.
"imma play the hell outta GSC during 9th"
Man, how it's hard to stick with my own thoughts!
Anyway I have already a few match under my belt and I can say that I think to have found the correct list to play competitively with our beloved miners.
I made a statement during the 2nd half of 8th ed.
"imma play the hell outta GSC during 9th"
Man, how it's hard to stick with my own thoughts!
Anyway I have already a few match under my belt and I can say that I think to have found the correct list to play competitively with our beloved miners.
I made a statement during the 2nd half of 8th ed.
"imma play the hell outta GSC during 9th"
Man, how it's hard to stick with my own thoughts!
Anyway I have already a few match under my belt and I can say that I think to have found the correct list to play competitively with our beloved miners.
Niiai wrote: You actually pull of psykick ritual? Is not that really hard?
Actually not so hard, you have 5 round in order to do that and it's not impossible.
Also remember that as of RAW your familiar can do psychic actions
The unit takes the action, not a model. And as a model the familiar wouldn't be able to do it since it doesn't have the Psyker keyword.
Please read carefully the manual, it's stated that units with different profiles and keywords get ALL the keyword as a unit.
And so it's bettere to perform the ritual with the familiar to avoid perils
2020/09/01 11:04:21
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Yes. Actions can only be taken once per turn. Actions ae on page 77 in the GT2020. There are exeptions like Raise the Banners, the exeption is in the text.
Also, from the FAQ:
"Q: Does the Psychic Ritual psychic action need to be completed by
the same unit three times in order for you to score victory points
for the Psychic Ritual secondary objective, or can it be completed
by different units?
A: This Psychic action must must be completed three times by
the same unit in order for you to score the victory points."
I am not saying it is impossible. I just considered it though in the list above. But I have not tryed it out. If it is easy I am very intrigued.
Alex claimed that he cna pull it of with the list I posted earlier. Come turn 2 he just parks 3 characters, 50 neophytes in the middel. And have the shotgun group 3" away from the enemy, baricading them in. Now I can not verify this claim. But I can se it plausible vs certain lists. Sertanly eays if the opponent has a gunline.
Niiai wrote: You actually pull of psykick ritual? Is not that really hard?
Actually not so hard, you have 5 round in order to do that and it's not impossible.
Also remember that as of RAW your familiar can do psychic actions
The unit takes the action, not a model. And as a model the familiar wouldn't be able to do it since it doesn't have the Psyker keyword.
Please read carefully the manual, it's stated that units with different profiles and keywords get ALL the keyword as a unit.
And so it's bettere to perform the ritual with the familiar to avoid perils
Even if you perform it with the familiar, which...I guess, the whole unit has to give up their psychic powers in order to do it.And, if the familiar perils's, he will immediately pop and cause another d3 mortal wounds to his attendant psyker buddy and everyone within 6", no?
As to your list, strategically, I am curious about a few things.
1) 60 points of saws in the hand flamer unit, huh? I think the hand flamer combo is still maybe a valid choice in a meta heavy with horde opponents, which mine is not, but that does seem like an awful lot of expenditure on a unit I would definitely not assume is going to survive the turn it takes for them to be allowed to charge.
2) 4 demo charges on the bike squad? I usually roll with 1, since only 1 model in the unit can use it at a time, and generally, it's just there to amp up the threat of the unit so that they can threaten enough for my opponent to target them instead of my Goliaths and ridgerunners that are pumping out firepower
3) Iconward, and clamavus - seems like you're going to try and charge from 8" away rather than going for A Perfect Ambush? If it were me running this, I would probably not be running the iconward unless I had Neophytes rolling on foot, even with the Icon I dont usually find him to be worthwhile with just acolytes deep striking in. I would run the acolytes as a single block of 20 (plus the hand flamer dudes on the side as a second unit) and just go in with the assumption theyll be using A Perfect Ambush, and i'd sub out the iconward for a nexos. If you were feeling cheesy, you could run the second patrol detachment as mixed so that the Nexos could be "Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor" model, and he could sit at the back of the map enabling you to use "A plan generations in the making" to block a key strat.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 11:47:05
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/09/01 11:54:28
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Niiai wrote: You actually pull of psykick ritual? Is not that really hard?
Actually not so hard, you have 5 round in order to do that and it's not impossible.
Also remember that as of RAW your familiar can do psychic actions
The unit takes the action, not a model. And as a model the familiar wouldn't be able to do it since it doesn't have the Psyker keyword.
Please read carefully the manual, it's stated that units with different profiles and keywords get ALL the keyword as a unit.
And so it's bettere to perform the ritual with the familiar to avoid perils
Using the familiar saves you 1 wound on the other character since the unit suffers d3 mortals and mortals carry over.
Nor does it let the character cast other powers since the unit gives up casting any power to do the action.
I'm not seeing the sauce here. You gain practically nothing.
Niiai wrote: You actually pull of psykick ritual? Is not that really hard?
Actually not so hard, you have 5 round in order to do that and it's not impossible.
Also remember that as of RAW your familiar can do psychic actions
The unit takes the action, not a model. And as a model the familiar wouldn't be able to do it since it doesn't have the Psyker keyword.
Please read carefully the manual, it's stated that units with different profiles and keywords get ALL the keyword as a unit.
And so it's bettere to perform the ritual with the familiar to avoid perils
Even if you perform it with the familiar, which...I guess, the whole unit has to give up their psychic powers in order to do it.And, if the familiar perils's, he will immediately pop and cause another d3 mortal wounds to his attendant psyker buddy and everyone within 6", no?
As to your list, strategically, I am curious about a few things.
1) 60 points of saws in the hand flamer unit, huh? I think the hand flamer combo is still maybe a valid choice in a meta heavy with horde opponents, which mine is not, but that does seem like an awful lot of expenditure on a unit I would definitely not assume is going to survive the turn it takes for them to be allowed to charge.
2) 4 demo charges on the bike squad? I usually roll with 1, since only 1 model in the unit can use it at a time, and generally, it's just there to amp up the threat of the unit so that they can threaten enough for my opponent to target them instead of my Goliaths and ridgerunners that are pumping out firepower
3) Iconward, and clamavus - seems like you're going to try and charge from 8" away rather than going for A Perfect Ambush? If it were me running this, I would probably not be running the iconward unless I had Neophytes rolling on foot, even with the Icon I dont usually find him to be worthwhile with just acolytes deep striking in. I would run the acolytes as a single block of 20 (plus the hand flamer dudes on the side as a second unit) and just go in with the assumption theyll be using A Perfect Ambush, and i'd sub out the iconward for a nexos. If you were feeling cheesy, you could run the second patrol detachment as mixed so that the Nexos could be "Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor" model, and he could sit at the back of the map enabling you to use "A plan generations in the making" to block a key strat.
The unit has to die for the perils explosion. So just the familiar dying won't make it go pop.
you use the extra explosives stat on the bikes to let them throw up to 5 demo charges at once.
The Acolytes are 4AE so they go for 7" charges where are decently reliable. Less so now that we lost the free re-roll from Vigilus.
I'm not sold on the Iconward without Vigilus but the +1 str relic banner is still good in a world full of t4/5.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/01 11:58:43
2020/09/01 12:02:00
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Charging from 9" away with 4 armed amperor and clavmagus means a 7" charge. That is the averadge in the dice, and with a CP re-roll charge ii is quite doable.
Also, the demo charge bikes have a stratagem ( Extra Explosives (1 CP) ) to throw all of them. That is an old and well used trick. Often combined with lying in wait to get the range from deep strike.
What is nice with this list is they save on CP with the clavmagus and the 4 armed emperor so you do not have to use a perfect ambush.
Charging from 9" away with 4 armed amperor and clavmagus means a 7" charge. That is the averadge in the dice, and with a CP re-roll charge ii is quite doable.
Also, the demo charge bikes have a stratagem ( Extra Explosives (1 CP) ) to throw all of them. That is an old and well used trick. Often combined with lying in wait to get the range from deep strike.
What is nice with this list is they save on CP with the clavmagus and the 4 armed emperor so you do not have to use a perfect ambush.
I missed that the whole second detachment was 4ae, I thought it was also bladed cog, so, that critism for sure is gone for me. Also if I came off rude I apologize, I was in no way trying to be rude, just curious about some elements of the list I would not personally go for, and wondering what the logic behind them was.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it seems I did miss the change from 8e where I believe if "the caster" died from casting a psychic power, then the explosion occurred. This was a big problem with rubric squads, because only the aspiring sorc got the keywrod and therefore his 1 wound butt and a CP reroll was the only thing standing between you and losing 2d3 rubrics from any peril.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 12:19:47
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/09/01 12:36:25
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Charging from 9" away with 4 armed amperor and clavmagus means a 7" charge. That is the averadge in the dice, and with a CP re-roll charge ii is quite doable.
Also, the demo charge bikes have a stratagem ( Extra Explosives (1 CP) ) to throw all of them. That is an old and well used trick. Often combined with lying in wait to get the range from deep strike.
What is nice with this list is they save on CP with the clavmagus and the 4 armed emperor so you do not have to use a perfect ambush.
I missed that the whole second detachment was 4ae, I thought it was also bladed cog, so, that critism for sure is gone for me. Also if I came off rude I apologize, I was in no way trying to be rude, just curious about some elements of the list I would not personally go for, and wondering what the logic behind them was.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it seems I did miss the change from 8e where I believe if "the caster" died from casting a psychic power, then the explosion occurred. This was a big problem with rubric squads, because only the aspiring sorc got the keywrod and therefore his 1 wound butt and a CP reroll was the only thing standing between you and losing 2d3 rubrics from any peril.
I felt no rudeness against me.
I'm giving you a mixed answer as my line of thoughts.
The iconward is useful in deep strike for the bonuses it provides (having str5 is a massive swing in giving the hurt, also saws instagib dg termies on 2+) and on top you have the 6+++ as icing on the cake.
The flamer bomb is useful not only against hordes but also against MSU: deep strike at 3" and then use 15d6 autohit flamers, if something survives you can face the charge or cast fight last with your psychic spells.
As for the familiar the nice thing is that it can provide more "base size" sort of speak for your magus in order to be close to the center of the battlefield.
2020/09/01 12:39:31
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Charging from 9" away with 4 armed amperor and clavmagus means a 7" charge. That is the averadge in the dice, and with a CP re-roll charge ii is quite doable.
Also, the demo charge bikes have a stratagem ( Extra Explosives (1 CP) ) to throw all of them. That is an old and well used trick. Often combined with lying in wait to get the range from deep strike.
What is nice with this list is they save on CP with the clavmagus and the 4 armed emperor so you do not have to use a perfect ambush.
I missed that the whole second detachment was 4ae, I thought it was also bladed cog, so, that critism for sure is gone for me. Also if I came off rude I apologize, I was in no way trying to be rude, just curious about some elements of the list I would not personally go for, and wondering what the logic behind them was.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it seems I did miss the change from 8e where I believe if "the caster" died from casting a psychic power, then the explosion occurred. This was a big problem with rubric squads, because only the aspiring sorc got the keywrod and therefore his 1 wound butt and a CP reroll was the only thing standing between you and losing 2d3 rubrics from any peril.
I felt no rudeness against me.
I'm giving you a mixed answer as my line of thoughts.
The iconward is useful in deep strike for the bonuses it provides (having str5 is a massive swing in giving the hurt, also saws instagib dg termies on 2+) and on top you have the 6+++ as icing on the cake.
The flamer bomb is useful not only against hordes but also against MSU: deep strike at 3" and then use 15d6 autohit flamers, if something survives you can face the charge or cast fight last with your psychic spells.
As for the familiar the nice thing is that it can provide more "base size" sort of speak for your magus in order to be close to the center of the battlefield.
Please, just stop.
+1 Strenght relic from Iconward is pure $h!t due to coherency changes AND the x2 weapon modifiers: you're losing attacks AND efficiency compared to 8th, rendering the model extremely useless for all offensive acolyte purposes.
Also you should first mathammer your 15D6 S3 flamers shot before you realize how many points and CPs (at least 2, sometimes 5 if you want to double shoot) you are actually spending to kill at best 1/4 of your points cost whilst being death sentenced next turn.
2020/09/01 12:47:17
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
you use the extra explosives stat on the bikes to let them throw up to 5 demo charges at once.
yep, I get that, I just don't know if it's reliable enough for me to get that off that I would invest the 50 points into the squad. 1 demo charge plus 1 incinerator makes the squad a reasonable threat to a min marine squad (especially with the new stratagem they can use) while still staying cheap enough that you're mostly shooting at 14pt bodies that have -1 to hit.
Charging from 9" away with 4 armed amperor and clavmagus means a 7" charge. That is the averadge in the dice, and with a CP re-roll charge ii is quite doable.
Also, the demo charge bikes have a stratagem ( Extra Explosives (1 CP) ) to throw all of them. That is an old and well used trick. Often combined with lying in wait to get the range from deep strike.
What is nice with this list is they save on CP with the clavmagus and the 4 armed emperor so you do not have to use a perfect ambush.
I missed that the whole second detachment was 4ae, I thought it was also bladed cog, so, that critism for sure is gone for me. Also if I came off rude I apologize, I was in no way trying to be rude, just curious about some elements of the list I would not personally go for, and wondering what the logic behind them was.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it seems I did miss the change from 8e where I believe if "the caster" died from casting a psychic power, then the explosion occurred. This was a big problem with rubric squads, because only the aspiring sorc got the keywrod and therefore his 1 wound butt and a CP reroll was the only thing standing between you and losing 2d3 rubrics from any peril.
I felt no rudeness against me.
I'm giving you a mixed answer as my line of thoughts.
The iconward is useful in deep strike for the bonuses it provides (having str5 is a massive swing in giving the hurt, also saws instagib dg termies on 2+) and on top you have the 6+++ as icing on the cake.
The flamer bomb is useful not only against hordes but also against MSU: deep strike at 3" and then use 15d6 autohit flamers, if something survives you can face the charge or cast fight last with your psychic spells.
As for the familiar the nice thing is that it can provide more "base size" sort of speak for your magus in order to be close to the center of the battlefield.
Please, just stop.
+1 Strenght relic from Iconward is pure $h!t due to coherency changes AND the x2 weapon modifiers: you're losing attacks AND efficiency compared to 8th, rendering the model extremely useless for all offensive acolyte purposes.
Also you should first mathammer your 15D6 S3 flamers shot before you realize how many points and CPs (at least 2, sometimes 5 if you want to double shoot) you are actually spending to kill at best 1/4 of your points cost whilst being death sentenced next turn.
Versus what I can only imagine is the worst target available, new W2 tactical marines, 15d6 S3 flamer autohits do kill 52.4pts, a bit more than a 1/3 points return. They return 77.6% of their points if you get them up against ork boyz.
There does seem to be a consensus that a large block squad even with new coherency is useful for stopping enemy momentum in the new missions, the only question is whether it's better to go for something like the 150pt acolyte hand flamer squad or something like a 120pt neophyte shotgun squad. I'd imagine with the 32mm vs 25mm bases the footprint of either would be relatively similar, the CP cost is obviously the same, while the points return on the hand flamers is almost always better as a percentage of the unit's cost. Shotguns return 25% of their points vs new 18pt tacticals (to demonstrate a realistic "worst case") and 55% against Ork Boyz (to demonstrate a realistic "best case" of units that seem to actually exist in the current meta)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do tend to agree about the +1S banner though, I dont rate it as worth a relic slot.
It gives you a wound shift against T8 vehicles only, really, now that it moves acos from S8 to S9 instead of what it used to do, S8 to S10.
I think the iconward can have a place in a list, I just think it has to be a walking neo list and no relic, where he's really a "might as well" alongside the obvious jackal alphus.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/01 12:56:28
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/09/01 12:58:41
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
you use the extra explosives stat on the bikes to let them throw up to 5 demo charges at once.
yep, I get that, I just don't know if it's reliable enough for me to get that off that I would invest the 50 points into the squad. 1 demo charge plus 1 incinerator makes the squad a reasonable threat to a min marine squad (especially with the new stratagem they can use) while still staying cheap enough that you're mostly shooting at 14pt bodies that have -1 to hit.
Charging from 9" away with 4 armed amperor and clavmagus means a 7" charge. That is the averadge in the dice, and with a CP re-roll charge ii is quite doable.
Also, the demo charge bikes have a stratagem ( Extra Explosives (1 CP) ) to throw all of them. That is an old and well used trick. Often combined with lying in wait to get the range from deep strike.
What is nice with this list is they save on CP with the clavmagus and the 4 armed emperor so you do not have to use a perfect ambush.
I missed that the whole second detachment was 4ae, I thought it was also bladed cog, so, that critism for sure is gone for me. Also if I came off rude I apologize, I was in no way trying to be rude, just curious about some elements of the list I would not personally go for, and wondering what the logic behind them was.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, it seems I did miss the change from 8e where I believe if "the caster" died from casting a psychic power, then the explosion occurred. This was a big problem with rubric squads, because only the aspiring sorc got the keywrod and therefore his 1 wound butt and a CP reroll was the only thing standing between you and losing 2d3 rubrics from any peril.
I felt no rudeness against me.
I'm giving you a mixed answer as my line of thoughts.
The iconward is useful in deep strike for the bonuses it provides (having str5 is a massive swing in giving the hurt, also saws instagib dg termies on 2+) and on top you have the 6+++ as icing on the cake.
The flamer bomb is useful not only against hordes but also against MSU: deep strike at 3" and then use 15d6 autohit flamers, if something survives you can face the charge or cast fight last with your psychic spells.
As for the familiar the nice thing is that it can provide more "base size" sort of speak for your magus in order to be close to the center of the battlefield.
Please, just stop.
+1 Strenght relic from Iconward is pure $h!t due to coherency changes AND the x2 weapon modifiers: you're losing attacks AND efficiency compared to 8th, rendering the model extremely useless for all offensive acolyte purposes.
Also you should first mathammer your 15D6 S3 flamers shot before you realize how many points and CPs (at least 2, sometimes 5 if you want to double shoot) you are actually spending to kill at best 1/4 of your points cost whilst being death sentenced next turn.
Versus what I can only imagine is the worst target available, new W2 tactical marines, 15d6 S3 flamer autohits do kill 52.4pts, a bit more than a 1/3 points return. They return 77.6% of their points if you get them up against ork boyz.
There does seem to be a consensus that a large block squad even with new coherency is useful for stopping enemy momentum in the new missions, the only question is whether it's better to go for something like the 150pt acolyte hand flamer squad or something like a 120pt neophyte shotgun squad. I'd imagine with the 32mm vs 25mm bases the footprint of either would be relatively similar, the CP cost is obviously the same, while the points return on the hand flamers is almost always better as a percentage of the unit's cost. Shotguns return 25% of their points vs new 18pt tacticals (to demonstrate a realistic "worst case") and 55% against Ork Boyz (to demonstrate a realistic "best case" of units that seem to actually exist in the current meta)
Automatically Appended Next Post: I do tend to agree about the +1S banner though, I dont rate it as worth a relic slot.
It gives you a wound shift against T8 vehicles only, really, now that it moves acos from S8 to S9 instead of what it used to do, S8 to S10.
I think the iconward can have a place in a list, I just think it has to be a walking neo list and no relic, where he's really a "might as well" alongside the obvious jackal alphus.
Thanks, someone who get how things are laid out and is not crying
