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Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





 vict0988 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Only the IH and Sally supplements were nerfed... IH twice.

IF nerf arrived with the dex, and I don't remember anything happening to WS UM and RG.

RG lost infiltrating Cents.


Oh right, there was that one too.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Canadian 5th wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Canadian 5th wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
[N]erfed to the point they are unrecognizable.The same thing will happen with DA. Same thing will happen with quins/daemons/custodies. Covid has just put a damper on any amount of urgency they had.

What here is wrong though? Each supplement needed toning down and an Errata/FAQ afterwards.

This bit seems pretty fething hyperbolic to me.

It is what happened. No exaggeration. Actual event. IH and IF were heavily nerfed. Both regarding their super doctrine. Plus IH had several strats nerfed. All chapters had doctrines nerfed to mandatory changing. Plus it would have extended much futher if not for no competitive 40k taking place after sometime in march of last year.

The underlined part has happened alread and isn't pure hyperbole? Are you actually arguing this one...

How can an unknowable possible future be hyperbole?

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I really don't see how exalted daemons and the harlequin changes in their current form can really be argued that it won't get changed tbh.

I'm with xeno on this one: the best parts of PA would have already been tamped down on if not for covid much like the best parts of the marine supplements were drastically toned down. GW threw an insane amount of spaghetti at the wall as a quick cash grab just before dropping a new edition, as they do, and we're dealing with a meta that's basically a bunch of half baked ideas that haven't had anywhere near enough trimming.

Basically, 8th peaked the exact moment before the 2.5 marinedexes plunged everything into Whose Line is it Anyway, and I'll freely admit that while on the whole PA is somewhat more limited and sane than the 2.5dex marine crap, but some of it is just as absurd.


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





the_scotsman wrote:
I really don't see how exalted daemons and the harlequin changes in their current form can really be argued that it won't get changed tbh.

I'm with xeno on this one: the best parts of PA would have already been tamped down on if not for covid much like the best parts of the marine supplements were drastically toned down. GW threw an insane amount of spaghetti at the wall as a quick cash grab just before dropping a new edition, as they do, and we're dealing with a meta that's basically a bunch of half baked ideas that haven't had anywhere near enough trimming.

Basically, 8th peaked the exact moment before the 2.5 marinedexes plunged everything into Whose Line is it Anyway, and I'll freely admit that while on the whole PA is somewhat more limited and sane than the 2.5dex marine crap, but some of it is just as absurd.



I can't really disagree with that assessment.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






the_scotsman wrote:
I really don't see how exalted daemons and the harlequin changes in their current form can really be argued that it won't get changed tbh.

I'm with xeno on this one: the best parts of PA would have already been tamped down on if not for covid much like the best parts of the marine supplements were drastically toned down. GW threw an insane amount of spaghetti at the wall as a quick cash grab just before dropping a new edition, as they do, and we're dealing with a meta that's basically a bunch of half baked ideas that haven't had anywhere near enough trimming.

Basically, 8th peaked the exact moment before the 2.5 marinedexes plunged everything into Whose Line is it Anyway, and I'll freely admit that while on the whole PA is somewhat more limited and sane than the 2.5dex marine crap, but some of it is just as absurd.

Pretty much everything after marines 2.5 has at least 1 absurd rule per faction. Quinns is clearly the worst. a 9" aura of -1 to wound is essentially your whole army...not to mention double damage stratagem (like...what???). It is literally worse than Ironhands 2.5 - and that is saying something. Exalted daemons is like...I could already make 1 really BA greater daemon with relics and WL traits (I always did a LOC)...now you can make 3 or more and even better! for the cost of just CP which is handed out like candy in this edition. The custodies crap is more tame but it is just too cheap for what you get...still! Even tau got some absolutely insane rules - they just can't win a game due to bad 9th edd price changes and the objective nature of the eddition...they will damn near table you every game though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/16 20:35:09


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 Xenomancers wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I really don't see how exalted daemons and the harlequin changes in their current form can really be argued that it won't get changed tbh.

I'm with xeno on this one: the best parts of PA would have already been tamped down on if not for covid much like the best parts of the marine supplements were drastically toned down. GW threw an insane amount of spaghetti at the wall as a quick cash grab just before dropping a new edition, as they do, and we're dealing with a meta that's basically a bunch of half baked ideas that haven't had anywhere near enough trimming.

Basically, 8th peaked the exact moment before the 2.5 marinedexes plunged everything into Whose Line is it Anyway, and I'll freely admit that while on the whole PA is somewhat more limited and sane than the 2.5dex marine crap, but some of it is just as absurd.

Pretty much everything after marines 2.5 has at least 1 absurd rule per faction. Quinns is clearly the worst. a 9" aura of -1 to wound is essentially your whole army...not to mention double damage stratagem (like...what???). It is literally worse than Ironhands 2.5 - and that is saying something. Exalted daemons is like...I could already make 1 really BA greater daemon with relics and WL traits (I always did a LOC)...now you can make 3 or more and even better! for the cost of just CP which is handed out like candy in this edition. The custodies crap is more tame but it is just too cheap for what you get...still!


I wouldn't put anything Eldar/Tau/Guard/Tsons/GSC got in PA up on that level, but yeah, it's obviously VASTLY less playtested and careful than the codexes that preceded it.

....Also I don't think a 2cp stratagem to add +1 to the damage of the melee weapons the first time a harlequin unit is selected to fight in the fight phase is all that absurd, but, shrug. I really don't think the competitive lists running almost always Soaring Spite with tons of haywire skyweavers and 100% melta/sword clowns is really sweeping tourneys on the back of Murderous Entrance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/16 20:38:42


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant




Vancouver, BC

 Xenomancers wrote:
How can an unknowable possible future be hyperbole?

Easily. An example is somebody claiming that a simple papercut will invariably require their entire arm to be amputated if only the doctors would listen to them.

the_scotsman wrote:
I really don't see how exalted daemons and the harlequin changes in their current form can really be argued that it won't get changed tbh.

I'm with xeno on this one: the best parts of PA would have already been tamped down on if not for covid much like the best parts of the marine supplements were drastically toned down. GW threw an insane amount of spaghetti at the wall as a quick cash grab just before dropping a new edition, as they do, and we're dealing with a meta that's basically a bunch of half baked ideas that haven't had anywhere near enough trimming.

Basically, 8th peaked the exact moment before the 2.5 marinedexes plunged everything into Whose Line is it Anyway, and I'll freely admit that while on the whole PA is somewhat more limited and sane than the 2.5dex marine crap, but some of it is just as absurd.

They'll be changed but likely by their new book being released rather than a massive nerf via FAQ or Errata. If GW wanted to nerf anything they'd have done that in the last points update.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/16 20:40:53


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Da fuk? There are literally a host of issues with all those supplements. There were deliberately made OP and then toned down later. They are all errataed/nerfed to the point they are unrecognizable. The same thing will happen with DA. Same thing will happen with quins/daemons/custodies. Covid has just put a damper on any amount of urgency they had.


This might be approaching squig buggies are OP level of exaggeration.
I guess only in the sense that Full ork buggy lists started to win events afterwards?


We all sometimes misspeak or incorrectly analyze something. But generally speaking, when you are provably wrong on something its not a good idea to double down on your incorrect statement/assumption. Squig buggies are garbage and have never been anything except garbage. The Ork buggy lists used Scrapjets and KBBs almost exclusively. Some used Shokjumps and even fewer used Snazzwagon, but nobody willingly took a squigbuggy unless they owned it and wanted to continue the theme. They are just that terrible...in fact, the OLD buggies that nobody used were better.


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






SemperMortis wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Da fuk? There are literally a host of issues with all those supplements. There were deliberately made OP and then toned down later. They are all errataed/nerfed to the point they are unrecognizable. The same thing will happen with DA. Same thing will happen with quins/daemons/custodies. Covid has just put a damper on any amount of urgency they had.


This might be approaching squig buggies are OP level of exaggeration.
I guess only in the sense that Full ork buggy lists started to win events afterwards?


We all sometimes misspeak or incorrectly analyze something. But generally speaking, when you are provably wrong on something its not a good idea to double down on your incorrect statement/assumption. Squig buggies are garbage and have never been anything except garbage. The Ork buggy lists used Scrapjets and KBBs almost exclusively. Some used Shokjumps and even fewer used Snazzwagon, but nobody willingly took a squigbuggy unless they owned it and wanted to continue the theme. They are just that terrible...in fact, the OLD buggies that nobody used were better.

I don't play orks man. I play enough 40k to know that I could win games so many ways with that ork codex just by looking at their units and prices. That is the point. Now I am pretty sure at the time squigg buggies had ignore LOS which was the reason I was big on it now they have blast which is pretty nice but not the same so technically my build got nerfed. My mate actually came up with the shockdragsta list on his own 9x with custom jobs (also new since I made the statement too) Just more PA shenanigans on top of already great units. Only seen him play it a few times but it is just silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_scotsman wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I really don't see how exalted daemons and the harlequin changes in their current form can really be argued that it won't get changed tbh.

I'm with xeno on this one: the best parts of PA would have already been tamped down on if not for covid much like the best parts of the marine supplements were drastically toned down. GW threw an insane amount of spaghetti at the wall as a quick cash grab just before dropping a new edition, as they do, and we're dealing with a meta that's basically a bunch of half baked ideas that haven't had anywhere near enough trimming.

Basically, 8th peaked the exact moment before the 2.5 marinedexes plunged everything into Whose Line is it Anyway, and I'll freely admit that while on the whole PA is somewhat more limited and sane than the 2.5dex marine crap, but some of it is just as absurd.

Pretty much everything after marines 2.5 has at least 1 absurd rule per faction. Quinns is clearly the worst. a 9" aura of -1 to wound is essentially your whole army...not to mention double damage stratagem (like...what???). It is literally worse than Ironhands 2.5 - and that is saying something. Exalted daemons is like...I could already make 1 really BA greater daemon with relics and WL traits (I always did a LOC)...now you can make 3 or more and even better! for the cost of just CP which is handed out like candy in this edition. The custodies crap is more tame but it is just too cheap for what you get...still!


I wouldn't put anything Eldar/Tau/Guard/Tsons/GSC got in PA up on that level, but yeah, it's obviously VASTLY less playtested and careful than the codexes that preceded it.

....Also I don't think a 2cp stratagem to add +1 to the damage of the melee weapons the first time a harlequin unit is selected to fight in the fight phase is all that absurd, but, shrug. I really don't think the competitive lists running almost always Soaring Spite with tons of haywire skyweavers and 100% melta/sword clowns is really sweeping tourneys on the back of Murderous Entrance.
There are a lot of reasons they domiante. You could remove sorespite as an option and they'd still be the top army by a mile. +1 attack on the charge is also silly and haywire skyweavers have ALWAYS been an issue.

True - TS upgrade was weaker than the others and I honestly dont even know what GSC got and you just reminded me - IG got essentially nothing like the nids. I listed the main issues.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/16 21:17:17


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Da fuk? There are literally a host of issues with all those supplements. There were deliberately made OP and then toned down later. They are all errataed/nerfed to the point they are unrecognizable. The same thing will happen with DA. Same thing will happen with quins/daemons/custodies. Covid has just put a damper on any amount of urgency they had.


This might be approaching squig buggies are OP level of exaggeration.
I guess only in the sense that Full ork buggy lists started to win events afterwards?


We all sometimes misspeak or incorrectly analyze something. But generally speaking, when you are provably wrong on something its not a good idea to double down on your incorrect statement/assumption. Squig buggies are garbage and have never been anything except garbage. The Ork buggy lists used Scrapjets and KBBs almost exclusively. Some used Shokjumps and even fewer used Snazzwagon, but nobody willingly took a squigbuggy unless they owned it and wanted to continue the theme. They are just that terrible...in fact, the OLD buggies that nobody used were better.

I don't play orks man. I play enough 40k to know that I could win games so many ways with that ork codex just by looking at their units and prices. That is the point. Now I am pretty sure at the time squigg buggies had ignore LOS which was the reason I was big on it now they have blast which is pretty nice but not the same so technically my build got nerfed. My mate actually came up with the shockdragsta list on his own 9x with custom jobs (also new since I made the statement too) Just more PA shenanigans on top of already great units. Only seen him play it a few times but it is just silly.


LMAO. "I don't play orkz" quickly followed by "I could win games so many ways with that ork codex". Xeno you are my favorite poster on dakka!

You've never played Orkz but you are convinced that you know more than Ork players who 1: go to tournaments and 2: have played orkz for decades.

You are wrong, its very simple just say "My apologies, I was wrong" its not that hard. But if you are still pigheaded enough to stick to your guns and demand we recognize your genius as a would be ork player than please convince me that Ork buggy lists can win majors and GT's in the current meta where Plasma, melta and multi-dmg high AP weapons are everywhere.


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Honestly it's not the opponent that stops an ork buggy list from really rockin'. It's the table and base sizes. Maneuvering 9 buggies around is tough, let along 18.

Sorry, just throwing my 2 cents in.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





With further 9th Edition codexes coming out, I think we'll see an increase in power in each one from current status. That's one of the reasons I don't foresee a DA change. The only exception might be the specific objective they have (stubborn defiance).
Inner Circle won't be nerfed.
Jink won't be nerfed.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:
With further 9th Edition codexes coming out, I think we'll see an increase in power in each one from current status. That's one of the reasons I don't foresee a DA change. The only exception might be the specific objective they have (stubborn defiance).
Inner Circle won't be nerfed.
Jink won't be nerfed.


Remember how we all thought that the power level was going down in 7th because the Ork codex was so pathetically weak? how well did that turn out

not saying you are wrong, but a level of skepticism is rather healthy when dealing with GDub

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Quasistellar wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Quasistellar wrote:
Dark Angels on the whole don't seem OP -- just the inner circle rule seems a bit much.

Old Iron Hands supplement was broken because I'm almost 99% sure now that it was originally written for 9th edition and was adapted for 8th. If you take the supplement as it was published (no faq or errata) and play it in 9th edition, it's just average, with the one exception being the un-errata'd cogitated martyrdom being a bit over the top, and even then, it's only when used with the OLD leviathan.

Da fuk? There are literally a host of issues with all those supplements. There were deliberately made OP and then toned down later. They are all errataed/nerfed to the point they are unrecognizable. The same thing will happen with DA. Same thing will happen with quins/daemons/custodies. Covid has just put a damper on any amount of urgency they had.


K.

What here is wrong though? Each supplement needed toning down and an Errata/FAQ afterwards.


I literally said iron Hands supplement was broken, then xeno brought up a whole bunch of stuff that I wasn't talking about.

This is why no one takes him seriously. He argues like an 8 year old.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/17 04:48:22


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






SemperMortis wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Da fuk? There are literally a host of issues with all those supplements. There were deliberately made OP and then toned down later. They are all errataed/nerfed to the point they are unrecognizable. The same thing will happen with DA. Same thing will happen with quins/daemons/custodies. Covid has just put a damper on any amount of urgency they had.


This might be approaching squig buggies are OP level of exaggeration.
I guess only in the sense that Full ork buggy lists started to win events afterwards?


We all sometimes misspeak or incorrectly analyze something. But generally speaking, when you are provably wrong on something its not a good idea to double down on your incorrect statement/assumption. Squig buggies are garbage and have never been anything except garbage. The Ork buggy lists used Scrapjets and KBBs almost exclusively. Some used Shokjumps and even fewer used Snazzwagon, but nobody willingly took a squigbuggy unless they owned it and wanted to continue the theme. They are just that terrible...in fact, the OLD buggies that nobody used were better.

I don't play orks man. I play enough 40k to know that I could win games so many ways with that ork codex just by looking at their units and prices. That is the point. Now I am pretty sure at the time squigg buggies had ignore LOS which was the reason I was big on it now they have blast which is pretty nice but not the same so technically my build got nerfed. My mate actually came up with the shockdragsta list on his own 9x with custom jobs (also new since I made the statement too) Just more PA shenanigans on top of already great units. Only seen him play it a few times but it is just silly.


LMAO. "I don't play orkz" quickly followed by "I could win games so many ways with that ork codex". Xeno you are my favorite poster on dakka!

You've never played Orkz but you are convinced that you know more than Ork players who 1: go to tournaments and 2: have played orkz for decades.

You are wrong, its very simple just say "My apologies, I was wrong" its not that hard. But if you are still pigheaded enough to stick to your guns and demand we recognize your genius as a would be ork player than please convince me that Ork buggy lists can win majors and GT's in the current meta where Plasma, melta and multi-dmg high AP weapons are everywhere.



Yeah, it's odd - I've actually never heard from Xeno about a tournament that he's won, or placed in the top four in even. You'd think given the way he talks about it and how frequently tournament results are discussed, you'd get the occasional "hey, that was me!" or an analysis of how he beat one of the top armies, or something.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, it's odd - I've actually never heard from Xeno about a tournament that he's won, or placed in the top four in even. You'd think given the way he talks about it and how frequently tournament results are discussed, you'd get the occasional "hey, that was me!" or an analysis of how he beat one of the top armies, or something.


Well, when you talk with a guy who defends Squigbuggies as being OP or even competitive you know you are dealing with a person who views "Facts" and "evidence" as inconvenient hurdles he needs to ignore in order to achieve his goals. Sadly you and I, nor he, have a clue what those goals are. Maybe hes a rabid investor and purchased hundreds of squigbuggies hoping to create an artificial supply shortage in order to drive up the market price so he could sell them for a profit. Honestly, it makes the most sense

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






SemperMortis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, it's odd - I've actually never heard from Xeno about a tournament that he's won, or placed in the top four in even. You'd think given the way he talks about it and how frequently tournament results are discussed, you'd get the occasional "hey, that was me!" or an analysis of how he beat one of the top armies, or something.


Well, when you talk with a guy who defends Squigbuggies as being OP or even competitive you know you are dealing with a person who views "Facts" and "evidence" as inconvenient hurdles he needs to ignore in order to achieve his goals. Sadly you and I, nor he, have a clue what those goals are. Maybe hes a rabid investor and purchased hundreds of squigbuggies hoping to create an artificial supply shortage in order to drive up the market price so he could sell them for a profit. Honestly, it makes the most sense

Well now you are misquoting - this is the greatest sin of fallacy. I never said SB were OP. I said they were a strong unit and they were at the time when they went from 140 - to 100 points so...lets just move on. Your characterization of me is completely off - I never argue against the data. BTW - you know anyone that has 9 squig buggies?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/17 21:02:18


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Xenomancers wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, it's odd - I've actually never heard from Xeno about a tournament that he's won, or placed in the top four in even. You'd think given the way he talks about it and how frequently tournament results are discussed, you'd get the occasional "hey, that was me!" or an analysis of how he beat one of the top armies, or something.


Well, when you talk with a guy who defends Squigbuggies as being OP or even competitive you know you are dealing with a person who views "Facts" and "evidence" as inconvenient hurdles he needs to ignore in order to achieve his goals. Sadly you and I, nor he, have a clue what those goals are. Maybe hes a rabid investor and purchased hundreds of squigbuggies hoping to create an artificial supply shortage in order to drive up the market price so he could sell them for a profit. Honestly, it makes the most sense

Well now you are misquoting - this is the greatest sin of fallacy. I never said SB were OP. I said they were a strong unit and they were at the time when they went from 140 - to 100 points so...lets just move on. Your characterization of me is completely off - I never argue against the data. BTW - you know anyone that has 9 squig buggies?
If 9 squig buggies were a game winning combo people would run them.
The fact they still don't mean they are most likely trash.
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Ah ? So we can say anything, as long as it isn't verifiable, it's fine ?


Nobody has ever run 3 thunderhawks, they must have been OP all this time. GW will probably nerf them in the next FAQ (sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new at this).
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






dhallnet wrote:
Ah ? So we can say anything, as long as it isn't verifiable, it's fine ?


Nobody has ever run 3 thunderhawks, they must have been OP all this time. GW will probably nerf them in the next FAQ (sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new at this).

Pretty sure 3 thunderhawks has typically been about 6000 points.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant




Vancouver, BC

 Xenomancers wrote:
Pretty sure 3 thunderhawks has typically been about 6000 points.

So how about triple Land Raiders? Or maxed units of Servitors?
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Xenomancers wrote:
dhallnet wrote:
Ah ? So we can say anything, as long as it isn't verifiable, it's fine ?


Nobody has ever run 3 thunderhawks, they must have been OP all this time. GW will probably nerf them in the next FAQ (sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new at this).

Pretty sure 3 thunderhawks has typically been about 6000 points.


8e pumped the cost of all superheavies massively, but even so in most editions two Thunderhawks is all you can manage at 2,000pts (even in 30k the unupgraded base price is 685, so three are 2,055).

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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 Xenomancers wrote:
dhallnet wrote:
Ah ? So we can say anything, as long as it isn't verifiable, it's fine ?


Nobody has ever run 3 thunderhawks, they must have been OP all this time. GW will probably nerf them in the next FAQ (sorry if I'm wrong, I'm new at this).

Pretty sure 3 thunderhawks has typically been about 6000 points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 00:04:14


 
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Yeah, it's odd - I've actually never heard from Xeno about a tournament that he's won, or placed in the top four in even. You'd think given the way he talks about it and how frequently tournament results are discussed, you'd get the occasional "hey, that was me!" or an analysis of how he beat one of the top armies, or something.


Well, when you talk with a guy who defends Squigbuggies as being OP or even competitive you know you are dealing with a person who views "Facts" and "evidence" as inconvenient hurdles he needs to ignore in order to achieve his goals. Sadly you and I, nor he, have a clue what those goals are. Maybe hes a rabid investor and purchased hundreds of squigbuggies hoping to create an artificial supply shortage in order to drive up the market price so he could sell them for a profit. Honestly, it makes the most sense

Well now you are misquoting - this is the greatest sin of fallacy. I never said SB were OP. I said they were a strong unit and they were at the time when they went from 140 - to 100 points so...lets just move on. Your characterization of me is completely off - I never argue against the data. BTW - you know anyone that has 9 squig buggies?


I guess the part where I said "or even competitive" didn't register. Regardless, you are wrong and have been wrong a number of times. And squigbuggies are currently 110pts and NOBODY takes them because surprising you alone apparently, they are still trash. The best weapon profile it has is the "boom" squig which is Heavy 2D3 shots hitting on 4s. for 2 hits and 1D3 shots hitting on 5s for about .66 hits a turn, all told about 3 hits a turn with DDD. Congrats on paying 110pts for 3 S6 AP-1 D3 dmg hits. on average that is 2 wounds vs T4 and against a Marine that isn't even enough to guarantee 1 dead Marine a turn.

And do I know anyone who has 9 squigbuggies? No, because nobody wants them to begin with. On the flipside of that, I know plenty of people who have 18 Mek gunz, 300+ boyz, 3 Battlewagons etc. Almost like...if the model is at least good looking AND competitive players will buy it in sufficient numbers.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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 bullyboy wrote:
With further 9th Edition codexes coming out, I think we'll see an increase in power in each one from current status. That's one of the reasons I don't foresee a DA change. The only exception might be the specific objective they have (stubborn defiance).
Inner Circle won't be nerfed.
Jink won't be nerfed.


yeah, ill bet you that when TS comes around, we will be just as weaksauce as we are now. To many people complained about smite spam for the faction to ever recover.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 12:32:30


 
   
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Does anyone have any data on how the Dark Angels are doing? All the games I have seen on Youtube the Dark Angels got a good beat down but that's only like 3 games. I am stuck inside until my wife (lung cancer survivor) gets the vaccine or I would have had some games under my belt and some data.

Ananiel
   
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UK

Ananiel wrote:
Does anyone have any data on how the Dark Angels are doing? All the games I have seen on Youtube the Dark Angels got a good beat down but that's only like 3 games. I am stuck inside until my wife (lung cancer survivor) gets the vaccine or I would have had some games under my belt and some data.

Ananiel


Which Batreps have you been watching? Some of TTTitans ones involving Death Wing have been pretty solid DA victories with the issue of Oaths of Moments and the DA Secondary being very apparent in them.

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We don't have much data on the game recently.

This one here is probably the only registered result of a recent event:

https://downunderpairings.com/Tournament.php?TournamentID=1143&Panel1=Leaderboard

As you can see from the lists, it went:

1) Harlequins
2) Sororitas
3) Blood Angels
4) Mechanicus
5) Dark Angels
6) Chaos Undivided
7) Slaneesh
8) Death Guard

   
 
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