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Ive always thought that as long as you are within range, you can place the unit anywhere you like as long as the maximum number of models are in base to base.

But it says that you have to move straight forward and am allowed a free 90 degree wheel.

So basically i cant "choose"?

Heres a picture example :

The dwarves are to the right of the halbrediers. If the dwarves charge the halbrediers, MUST i put them in position A, or can i choose to put them in position B, where the character will get less attacks?

Secondly, lets say i win combat...see picture C. There are 3 halbrediers left and this leaves some of the dwarves out of base to base. Can i reform into picture D? Am i forced to do so?

1) following the rules of charging, position a or b are both correct as you have brought the maximum number of models in base contact. in both cases you have brought the entire frontage of models into base contact fulfilling this requirement, there isnt a requirement to align corner to corner, center to center, just maximum models.


now if you had run into the unit that was 7 wide with your 5 wide unit you would have to center on the unit to bring the maximum number of models to bear. eg

XXXXXXX
 HYYYY

2) you are not required to re-form to bring the maximum number of models into base. but yes you "CAN" reform into D, but you are not required to.

1. But the rules say that i am only allowed to move STRAIGHT ahead? That kind of implies that A is the only valid result (since B would result in moving NW and not straight ahead)

2.But straightly speaking, to get to position D, i would have to move the whole block to the right, which isnt a reform (IIRC a reform is only when you change the number of ranks/pivot)

Edit : Lets say a unit is facing off-center from a target. It wants to charge. It rolls short, so as a failed charge it moves the highest dice rolled directly towards the target.

To move directly towards the target, the unit has to wheel. Is the wheel free or part of hte failed charge movement allowance?

I'm lost on C and D.. the fronts are not the same. (3 front enemy, 5 front dwarf)


1) the wheel is a free wheel to get aligned. (1 90deg wheel) so A and B as possible.

1) The free wheel is NOT the "close the door" wheel - it allows you to turn and move, or move, wheel, complete charge.

ONCE you have made contact you then get a second wheel (Artee - this is where youre wrong) to "close the door" and align the combatants.

You are NOT compelled to only move directly ahead unless you are subject to random movement.

2) Youre wrong on a reform definition - you are reforming around a model into a new alignment, and yes this can be you "shuffling" to one side in effect. Its still a combat reform and is still allowed.

3) You still get a free wheel when you charge - you turn to face and move.

Im confused, how can you use the single free wheel to go to position B then? If you move the dwarves forward and then do a wheel, they will always end up in position A from what i can see...(unless you wheel first, intentionally hit the target at an angle and then close the door...)

Reform : In that case can you use a swift reform to shuffle more than just half your movement value to the left or right?

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) The free wheel is NOT the "close the door" wheel - it allows you to turn and move, or move, wheel, complete charge.

ONCE you have made contact you then get a second wheel (Artee - this is where youre wrong) to "close the door" and align the combatants.

I wasnt counting the Close the door.. You have one wheel to make contact then you close the door.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
2) Youre wrong on a reform definition - you are reforming around a model into a new alignment, and yes this can be you "shuffling" to one side in effect. Its still a combat reform and is still allowed.

Not during charges. This is after end of each round of combat.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
3) You still get a free wheel when you charge - you turn to face and move.

Question wrote:
Reform : In that case can you use a swift reform to shuffle more than just half your movement value to the left or right?

Swift reform is after charges are made. You can't swift reform and charge. Swift reform is down around the center of the unit. So no you cant shuffle right or left.

Question wrote:Im confused, how can you use the single free wheel to go to position B then? If you move the dwarves forward and then do a wheel, they will always end up in position A from what i can see...(unless you wheel first, intentionally hit the target at an angle and then close the door...)

See pic. The Blue is the "Close the Door" Wheel. The Orange is the Free charge wheel. Not completely to scale.

Arc, not "arch"

2) was during combat, not a charge - hence saying it was a combat reform.

Also, there is NO requirement to reform around the centre of the unit - see the BRB FAQ.

Sorry for misspelling Arc. My fingers mistyped.

I didn't see that it was a reform after combat.

On a regular reform or swift reform (which is a reform with a passed leadership test if you have a musician) is a requirement reform around center of the unit. (BRB Pg 14), Combat reform is not. (BRB FAQ pg 2)

Can anyone explain how you can use combat reform to "shuffle" to the side?

Because combatreforms dont require you to keep the cntre of the unit in the same spot you can shuffle provided no models get taken out of combat while doing so.

HoverBoy wrote:Because combatreforms dont require you to keep the cntre of the unit in the same spot you can shuffle provided no models get taken out of combat while doing so.

Interesting.
So if I pin a sphinx with a single wraith (lined up on his front center), the sphinx could combat reform, to slide sideways, going corner to corner, and exposing the wraith to, say, an approaching hero with a magic weapon?

I think I like that, it makes it a bit more fair.

-Matt

So how do you work out combat reform with a non-center model?

Question wrote:So how do you work out combat reform with a non-center model?

It might be my english but i'm not getting what you're asking...

HoverBoy wrote:Because combatreforms dont require you to keep the cntre of the unit in the same spot you can shuffle provided no models get taken out of combat while doing so.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:Because combatreforms dont require you to keep the cntre of the unit in the same spot you can shuffle provided no models get taken out of combat while doing so.

Interesting.
So if I pin a sphinx with a single wraith (lined up on his front center), the sphinx could combat reform, to slide sideways, going corner to corner, and exposing the wraith to, say, an approaching hero with a magic weapon?

I think I like that, it makes it a bit more fair.

-Matt

I believe that models that are already in base to base are not allowed to move, though I don't have my rulebook with me to double check.

They are not allowed to move out of contact (or to get enemies out) and that's it, clearly this was meant so that units can slide but it has odd consequences to one on one battles like Matt pointed out.

HoverBoy wrote:

Question wrote:So how do you work out combat reform with a non-center model?

It might be my english but i'm not getting what you're asking...

Well normally you would pivot around the center model as a reform right?

How do you reform around a model that is on the edge of the block?

The BRB FAQ makes it so that combat reforms do not require you to reform around the center model.

This only applies to combat reforms, not normal ones. Check the BRB FAQ for more information.

Davall wrote:The BRB FAQ makes it so that combat reforms do not require you to reform around the center model.

This only applies to combat reforms, not normal ones. Check the BRB FAQ for more information.

That has been said multiple times. My question is how do you MOVE the models around to reform in such a manner?

If you qualify for a combat reform, choose one model, and reform around it. For example:

XXXXXXXO

XXOXXXXX

XOXXXXXX

XXXXXOXX

You could chose to reform around any of the O's as long as you do not change what arc you are in (going from their front to flank, flank to rear), or reduce the number of models in base to base contact.

So if you have a 7 wide rank, you can move up to 5 models to either side?

The O doesnt need to be in the exact center of the new rank?

As per the brb isnt it all good as long as you have the most models able to fight as possible.

Hence if you are 5 wide against a horde (10 wide assuming they are the same base size).
You can shuffle over as long as as 7 of his remain in base to base with you (im including the diagonal corner touching thing) then you are all good.

As far as I understand.

cowpow16 wrote:Hence if you are 5 wide against a horde (10 wide assuming they are the same base size).
You can shuffle over as long as as 7 of his remain in base to base with you (im including the diagonal corner touching thing) then you are all good.

Actually no, in that case you would be moving enemy models out of contact even though you would be bringing the same anount in contact elsewhere.

Example:
Unit B cannot actually slide to the right side of unit A as that would take several models from the left side of A out of the fight.
AAAAAAAAAA
BBBBB

In this case however unit B can move up to two guys to the right so as not to take the leftmost A guy out of the fight (effectively ending in the formation from the previous example).
AAAAAAAAAA
BBBBB

In addition to the reform question : If a unit overruns or pursues, and runs into an enemy unit, do you close the door as per normal?

Yes, in fact if you'r overrun would contact another unit you must resolve another charge so the free wheel and max contact made rules occur once again, so measure before you move.

So about the combat reform...how far can i slide?

If its a 5 wide unit, can i move a maximum of 4 models to the side, assuming that a model isnt being moved out of base to base this way?

Yes; you can move as many models as you have movement allowance for that are nto also in contact with the enemy- you re still restricted to the maximum movement rules for reform.

If a unit is charged in the rear and wants to reform to face the rear, can it do so?

You normally pivot the whole block to face a new direction right? But if you do that, you would remove models that are in base contact with the enemy in the rear.

You can reform to the rear. The rule in the BRB actually mentions this. RnF troops are faceless guys and interchangeable. If a character made way to the rear, on the reform it would stay in base to base and now be in the new front rank.