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I am just curious, as Warmachine and Hordes have been released in the shops. Lately I went on battle college and flicked through verious factions, which included this one. As there are no starter sets or anything like that, is it worth investing in any of these smaller factions beyond the top 8's? Just I am rather interested in the Retributions style of unit.

It's a real faction.

It's a full faction.

The only (supposed) "Pseudo-factions" are Mercs and Minions.

Have a look on the site- Ret are a main faction, just released later than the "big 8". Mercs are similar, no battlebox but plenty of updates and stuff to work with. Currently Minions are behind in terms of releases, simply because they are new.

PP are generally good for keeping their stuff up to date.

And they got a big expansion in the number of options in Wrath.

Are you asking "Is Retribution competitive?" or "Is it ok to start playing with Retribution?" The answer to both questions is yes, mostly.

Starting with Retribution, well you're not getting the battlebox which will save you money but then battle college does say that there is a recommended starting point: "Kaelyssa as the Warcaster. A Manticore, a Chimera, and a Griffon is the standard list, while an alternate is provided using only light 'jacks: a Chimera, a Griffon, and two Gorgons." If you have people starting at the same level then that's a place to start. Personally go for the list containing the Manticore, my friend who plays Retribution doesn't use the Gorgons at all (probably his play style though). After that get a couple of solo's to taste and the Mage Hunter Strike Force or Sentinals (both with UA) as they are the units I most see facing me.

As for whether Retribution can hold their own in a battle. Yes. But there are gaps in what they can deal with, stealth being the huge gap (Quickstart rules here). You'll have less options at the list building stage than other factions, but there is hardly a bad choice and you'll always have options on the tabletop as most of the faction can do two or more things to help you out.

Mercenaries and Minions are also "proper" factions. But there can be some teasing about that


Edit: did I really spend 15 minutes writing that? oh well, multi ninja'd

yastobaal wrote:

Mercenaries and Minions are also "proper" factions. But there can be some teasing about that

Not according to the studio.

But that's ok, makes us feel more awesome when we win.

Aye, well, having been used to reading 40K, I am used to putting factions in certains zones of playablity. Insects in space and sisters of battle being example of recently re-printed factions that essencally ended up being less exciting or weaker due to bad codexing, inferiour rules and so fourth.

So when I pick a army, I want to know it's a real army, a well designed contender that isn't a inferiour X army, or an after thought.

Thanks for the advice, easpically for starting up, I will give the pricing a good look up.

I know it is hard to totally dismiss what you have already been exposed too, but I would look at PP as a seperate entity that is completely unlike GW. I am not bashing GW, however over time you will understand what I am talking about and see major differences in the way each company is run.

$pider wrote:I know it is hard to totally dismiss what you have already been exposed too, but I would look at PP as a seperate entity that is completely unlike GW. I am not bashing GW, however over time you will understand what I am talking about and see major differences in the way each company is run.

Honestly, I'd look at any company that isn't GW as completely unlike GW. I've yet to see the inherent unbalance that exists in GW games in any other game I've come across. I'm including things like Warhammer Ancients and others based on GW rule sets as GW games, of course. Almost every other game out there you can pick any army and it's as balanced as any other.

Not to come across as GW bashing, but it's simple fact that rules are secondary to models for GW.

The GW experience of playing is pretty unique to GW games, in my experience.

Platuan4th wrote:

$pider wrote:I know it is hard to totally dismiss what you have already been exposed too, but I would look at PP as a seperate entity that is completely unlike GW. I am not bashing GW, however over time you will understand what I am talking about and see major differences in the way each company is run.

Honestly, I'd look at any company that isn't GW as completely unlike GW. I've yet to see the inherent unbalance that exists in GW games in any other game I've come across. I'm including things like Warhammer Ancients and others based on GW rule sets as GW games, of course. Almost every other game out there you can pick any army and it's as balanced as any other.

Not to come across as GW bashing, but it's simple fact that rules are secondary to models for GW.

The GW experience of playing is pretty unique to GW games, in my experience.

Pretty much this.

Wysten wrote:So when I pick a army, I want to know it's a real army, a well designed contender that isn't a inferiour X army, or an after thought.

Thanks for the advice, easpically for starting up, I will give the pricing a good look up.

Retribution is a real army, and a well-designed contender. You will have a heavy reliance on singular, powerful solos and Unit Attachments that may give your army a "LOOK AT BRAD THE ELF! BRAD IS SO COOL! BRAD IS LEADING US TO VICTORY IN HIS SHINING HALO OF AWESO-- CRAP BRAD DIED!!! NOW WE'RE fethed!" sort of feel.

But, as with all Warmachine and Hordes factions, you have to do your homework and find unit combinations and synergies that work together. Throwing together a mishmash of units you like the look of, or that don't reflect the army playstyle, will not give you a rewarding game experience. Nor will trying to 'spam' the 'best' models like in 40k.

Wysten wrote:Aye, well, having been used to reading 40K, I am used to putting factions in certains zones of playablity. Insects in space and sisters of battle being example of recently re-printed factions that essencally ended up being less exciting or weaker due to bad codexing, inferiour rules and so fourth.

So when I pick a army, I want to know it's a real army, a well designed contender that isn't a inferiour X army, or an after thought.

Thanks for the advice, easpically for starting up, I will give the pricing a good look up.

As a note, the way PP introduces new rules somewhat elevates codex creep is how they do releases. Each Faction got an update to MkII (or intorduced, in the Retribution's cae) and which consolidated all the MkI releases and added a few extras per faction. Each year (currently) PP than does an "anthology" book, which includes new models for all the Factions. PP doesn't discontinue Factions.

So in MkII, the first such book was Wrath. That book included a new warcaster for each Faction, two now character heavy warjacks, another heavy warjack, and a mixture of light warjacks, solos, units and unit attachments (something like about four or so I think). Retribution actually got out of this an extra two heavy warjacks , I believe. Wrath also introduced battle engines (120mm base models) and gave one to each main Faction (including the Retribution).

Next year, there will be another (yet unnamed) book, that will have at least one additional warcaster, and more stuff, in general. This is more or less their release cycle. They do all writing in-house (rather than outsourcing as I understand GW does with codices) and playtested. There's debate on their ability to do this, but it is done. And currently, if one looks at top tournament results, it seems that Factions are balanced enough that ou can place and even win based mostly on playstyle and skill, rather than simply picking the better armies, though tournament format may affect this somewhat.

And stuff.

Platuan4th wrote:

$pider wrote:I know it is hard to totally dismiss what you have already been exposed too, but I would look at PP as a seperate entity that is completely unlike GW. I am not bashing GW, however over time you will understand what I am talking about and see major differences in the way each company is run.

Honestly, I'd look at any company that isn't GW as completely unlike GW. I've yet to see the inherent unbalance that exists in GW games in any other game I've come across. I'm including things like Warhammer Ancients and others based on GW rule sets as GW games, of course. Almost every other game out there you can pick any army and it's as balanced as any other.

Not to come across as GW bashing, but it's simple fact that rules are secondary to models for GW.

The GW experience of playing is pretty unique to GW games, in my experience.

Yeah, I agree, the heavy marine slant is wearing me down.

sourclams wrote:

Wysten wrote:So when I pick a army, I want to know it's a real army, a well designed contender that isn't a inferiour X army, or an after thought.

Thanks for the advice, easpically for starting up, I will give the pricing a good look up.

Retribution is a real army, and a well-designed contender. You will have a heavy reliance on singular, powerful solos and Unit Attachments that may give your army a "LOOK AT BRAD THE ELF! BRAD IS SO COOL! BRAD IS LEADING US TO VICTORY IN HIS SHINING HALO OF AWESO-- CRAP BRAD DIED!!! NOW WE'RE fethed!" sort of feel.

But, as with all Warmachine and Hordes factions, you have to do your homework and find unit combinations and synergies that work together. Throwing together a mishmash of units you like the look of, or that don't reflect the army playstyle, will not give you a rewarding game experience. Nor will trying to 'spam' the 'best' models like in 40k.

Aye, I am not asking for hand outs reguarding stratergy, as I am reading up on the units and making up my own mind of it. Just the opening glance with far fewer warcasters and unit choices set off alarm bells in my head, which is a same since I love the look of their army. Just wanted a quick confirm whether it was a army worth investing in, since there is no starter set, there is no cheap way to getting into it, so if I wanted to start, I had to make sure it was a army matching the big 8 in the same way that 40K is essencally "The Uber marines vs everything else".

I have a good solid head for stratergy anyways, so I'm not one of those guys that builds a whole lot of random together and complains when I lose. I just want a fun, good looking faction to play, currently it's between the holy faction and these guys.

Blaque wrote:

Wysten wrote:Aye, well, having been used to reading 40K, I am used to putting factions in certains zones of playablity. Insects in space and sisters of battle being example of recently re-printed factions that essencally ended up being less exciting or weaker due to bad codexing, inferiour rules and so fourth.

So when I pick a army, I want to know it's a real army, a well designed contender that isn't a inferiour X army, or an after thought.

Thanks for the advice, easpically for starting up, I will give the pricing a good look up.

As a note, the way PP introduces new rules somewhat elevates codex creep is how they do releases. Each Faction got an update to MkII (or intorduced, in the Retribution's cae) and which consolidated all the MkI releases and added a few extras per faction. Each year (currently) PP than does an "anthology" book, which includes new models for all the Factions. PP doesn't discontinue Factions.

So in MkII, the first such book was Wrath. That book included a new warcaster for each Faction, two now character heavy warjacks, another heavy warjack, and a mixture of light warjacks, solos, units and unit attachments (something like about four or so I think). Retribution actually got out of this an extra two heavy warjacks , I believe. Wrath also introduced battle engines (120mm base models) and gave one to each main Faction (including the Retribution).

Next year, there will be another (yet unnamed) book, that will have at least one additional warcaster, and more stuff, in general. This is more or less their release cycle. They do all writing in-house (rather than outsourcing as I understand GW does with codices) and playtested. There's debate on their ability to do this, but it is done. And currently, if one looks at top tournament results, it seems that Factions are balanced enough that ou can place and even win based mostly on playstyle and skill, rather than simply picking the better armies, though tournament format may affect this somewhat.

And stuff.

Ahhhh, interesting, having them all updated at the same time at least gives them the feeling that they are all updated to play on the same battlefield. It's really inspiring. Just got to read into the game more to see whether I want to play it as a whole.

Nothing in Wrath really caused that much creep from what I've seen (unlike Mk1 expansions). The only real gotta have it was across most factions (Wishnailer) and everyone got good stuff all around but very, very few things that just stands out head and shoulders over what they already had.

Wyshnaylyr annoys me because he's so much better than the equivalent Hordes model (Targ, who is actually almost outright useless to most of the game). But yeah, nothing especially bad, and it even had models that put other things back on the table more, such as a couple Retribution warcasters getting bumps with the Vyre Myrmidons and Sword Knights with Runewood.

And stuff.

So how does Ret combat stealth anyways?

Discordia, lucky deviations with SFA, charging, or get within 5" and unleash hell.

$pider wrote:I know it is hard to totally dismiss what you have already been exposed too, but I would look at PP as a seperate entity that is completely unlike GW. I am not bashing GW, however over time you will understand what I am talking about and see major differences in the way each company is run.

I will bash GW. The biggest thing they got going for them is they are the biggest kid on the block and have the most cash and name recognition. But that does not lead to a better product. They rely on their name alone to carry them and end up with shoddy rules and models. The only reason I ever play anymore is because alot of people I know still play so I will play in order to be social.


At the OP: Yes, retribution is a competitive faction. All 9 of the main ones are. I don't know enough about mercs or minions to say what they are capable of as stand alone forces, though. What makes (or breaks) a list in WM/H is the synergies that you bring to the table. You need units/models that work well together and help you deal with a variety of enemy plans. Pretty much every unit/model in the game has a host of abilities. And learning how to use them is the key to winning.

Elves are soulless abominations and not real people, therefor Ret is not a real faction.

Aduro wrote:Elves are soulless abominations and not real people, therefor Ret is not a real faction.

Not all of them are Soulless...so they should at least a "proper" faction.

Joking aside.

The biggest thing that is holding Ret back currently is that thier new Myrmidons from Wrath (which is about half their jack total) aren't out yet. When they are released, I unfortuantly expect more people at my LGS to pick them up (I got into Ret because nobody plays them).

I love my angry genocidal elves, frankly I wish I didn't get 100 points of Cyngar and Skorne before them.

The Elves are really just an extension of the Cryx army so of course they're a proper faction. Heck, we already have one of their former war heroes. The whole "Kill all humans" thing is a ploy to get those pesky humans out of the Dragonfather's way so we can kill off his progeny without hassles.

Kirbinator wrote:The Elves are really just an extension of the Cryx army so of course they're a proper faction. Heck, we already have one of their former war heroes. The whole "Kill all humans" thing is a ploy to get those pesky humans out of the Dragonfather's way so we can kill off his progeny without hassles.

This would be more convincing if the Scharde Isles weren't crawling with humans, too.

Yeah but those humans aren't doing as good a job of fighting back.

After reading the title of this thread, I have this image in my head of Ossyan saying “I wanna be a real boy”.

I think one of the underlying issues with Retribution is that their not as fleshed out as the other factions, not necessarily that their unplayable. The introduction of a plastic starter kit as well as a more units from expansions like Wrath would fix the only issues with retribution.

All other factions are little baby men compared to Khador!

(Yes, they are a illegitimate faction. )