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Hey guys,

Any of you willing to help me out with this? At what moment is regeneration lost from flaming attacks?

The BRB states, "if a unit is wounded by a Flaming Attack it loses the Regeneration rule for the remainder of the phase..."

So does this mean that the very moment a wound is rolled, the rule is lost? Or does it mean that the unit has to suffer an "unsaved wound? (assuming that they have any kind of armor to stop it.)

I had assumed that if they meant unsaved wound, they would have stated it, but I wanted to see what you all think.

Its obviously unsaved. If the wound was saved it would stop the flames from removing regeneration.

Wrong, you simply have to be wounded by the attack. It says it right there in the rule.

You get wounded by any attack that is flaming and you dont get regen against it.
You may take armor and or ward saves depending what you have and what you are getting hit with.
But the book does explain it. I hit you with flaming you no longer have regen.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Wrong, you simply have to be wounded by the attack. It says it right there in the rule.

Sigh. You really shouldnt try to argue GW rules using literal interpretation. I mean, sure, this is what happens at tournaments, but it leads to absurd situations(just like in courts of law).

Pretty much all of abilities that are based on taking a wound, e.g. armor that hurts the attacker, require it to be an unsaved wound. Regeneration is no different, and you are basically telling me that regeneration magically stops working even though the hit was saved.

Feel free to contact GW if you don't believe me.

In before "GW is worthless at clarifying rules but i trust the opinion of random people on an internet forum more".

I work on the principal that you roll to wound and are only woundED if you fail your save roll, once woundED your regen is no longer counted. So if a hydra loses a wound from its stat line it also loses its regen for the rest of the phase.

Sigh. As soon as that flaming sword hits you hard enough to cause a wound, you are woundED.

Please explain the "absurd situation" that occurs when you actually follow the rules.

Considering the first sentence of the last paragraph states: "Wounds caused by Flaming Attacks... cannot be regenerated..." means that you can't ever roll a regeneration save against flaming attacks, how would you ever take the save?

Now in the case of the Hydra, yes it has an armor save. If you pass that, the wound is ignored. If that is what you meant, make sure you add it in next time

*edit* Aimed at pob82 and Question.

People, Just go for unsaved wounds means no regen for the phase but regen save may not be taken, 'cause it flaming,, and hit him enough so he fails one, then hit him with something strong that isn't flaming in the same phase, like a trebuchet or cannon or hit him with a ginger, we have flaming attacks

gingers, resolving conflict since 1989

Davall wrote:Considering the first sentence of the last paragraph states: "Wounds caused by Flaming Attacks... cannot be regenerated..." means that you can't ever roll a regeneration save against flaming attacks, how would you ever take the save?

Now in the case of the Hydra, yes it has an armor save. If you pass that, the wound is ignored. If that is what you meant, make sure you add it in next time

*edit* Aimed at pob82 and Question.

Exactly right. If you change the wording of the rule to "unsaved wound" you would be allowed to take the regeneration save as well. Flaming attacks negate regen saves, so only other types of saves may be taken. This can certainly mean that a monster/character/unit may not take a single wound but be unable to take any regeneration saves for the rest of the phase.

@ Davall

I don't think Question or pob82 think you can use Regeneration saves against flaming attacks...

I think the discussion is whether armour saving a flaming attack prevents the loss of regeneration for the entire duration of the phase or not.

I agree with Question and pob82 that it SHOULD be unsaved wounds by flaming attacks that cause the loss of regeneration for the entire phase and we play it this way where I live. However, nosferatu1001 is right, those are the RaW. If nosferatu1001 plays this way, he probably just doesn't have that many regular opponents.

Airmaniac wrote:@ Davall

I don't think Question or pob82 think you can use Regeneration saves against flaming attacks...

I think the discussion is whether armour saving a flaming attack prevents the loss of regeneration for the entire duration of the phase or not.

I agree with Question and pob82 that it SHOULD be unsaved wounds by flaming attacks that cause the loss of regeneration for the entire phase and we play it this way where I live. However, nosferatu1001 is right, those are the RaW. If nosferatu1001 plays this way, he probably just doesn't have that many regular opponents.

Whoops, I re-read the OP's post and yes, that seems what they mean.

In that case, I agree. if a Hydra passes its armor save, it wasn't "wounded". Yes, a wound was scored, but under taking saving throws, if you pass your armor save, the wound is discounted (although both passages use different terminology, thanks GW). I am not going to try to get a 40k version of Hex Rifle vs FNP going (which was... annoying), but discounted = ignored/pay no attention to it. So if you ignore that flaming wound, it never happened and regeneration is preserved.

*edit* I am not going to respond any further along this line as I can see nothing positive out of it. Just a preemptive "I'm not going to argue this one".

I will apologies if my post was unclear. I am aware you do not get regen against flaming attacks and am glad to see that people share the view that to be wounded you will need to fail an armour save (if you have one )

I would consider it to be like hey the enemy did X amount of possible wounds after all saves that would be Y amount of wound(s) which may or may not kill.

But if X amount of possible wounds are done you can take all saves except regen to find the total amount of actual wounds caused.

Yes, you need a successful roll to wound with a flaming attack.
Page 43 says that Each Wound suffered may be canceled if the controlling player makes a saving throw.

Does a canceled wound count as a wound?

When saves are failed, they take "casualties" (Page45). Unless they have more than 1 wound, which GW then goes back to calling unsaved wounds as wounds, and in the sidebar suggests the use of wound markers for multi-wound models.


I've always played it that if the hydra makes his armor save, he keeps his regen. Not because of me adding "Unsaved" into the flaming rule, but because the wounding rolls tell me to Cancel wounds that are saved.

-Matt

I have never run into a oh I have an armor save against that since str 5 -2 to your armor and with buffs the chance of armor is really low or the units dont wear armor as I said.