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By definition, are the Tau in any way, shape, or form guilty of being imperialistic in any sense?

Evidence would also be appreciated as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination."

Original Tau designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology

Yes.

coolyo294 wrote:Yes.

Hmm...very convincing. But I need proof in order to decide.

So far, we have races that have been peacefully integrated (bug peeps, lizard/bird eaters, space dwarves).

Of course they are imperialists. They are trying to bring planets under the dominion of their ideals. They may be nice, happy imperialists, but imperialists still.
Is there a tau homeworld? is it more important to the tau than a world they have just conquered? Does it control government? Do they take some planets because they wish to acquire resources?

Then yes, they are imperialists.

When their whole schtick is "join or die," yeah, that makes them imperialist. They're not interested in unaffiliated groups pursuing their own ends, they want a one-galaxy government, which is specifically their government.

Yes, they're imperialistic. The only reason they're able to be nice is because their empire is too small to have faced any real threats.

I don't know if they meet the standard of imperialist that you set up in the OP. They try and make a good effort that everyone is all equal. In that everyone dose there best for the GG.

You could think of them as ideal imperialist. Where everyone bows down to the glory of the GG rather then bowing down to the tau.

WarOne wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:Yes.

Hmm...very convincing. But I need proof in order to decide.

So far, we have races that have been peacefully integrated (bug peeps, lizard/bird eaters, space dwarves).

Think of it this way.
The British Empire was Imperialist and people joined them peacefully though quite a few didn't want to and were conquered for their troubles. Much like the British Empire the Tau Empire places a higher value on Tau citizens than others. They may not be racist or out rightly discriminatory but they favour Tau over others...

Um...as I said. Imperialism is conquering while placing less equality on those they have conquered.

The tau do this all the time. Can an outsider ever become the top of their society? Do they conquer planets purely for strategic resources, while simultaneously giving those they conquered the choice to join or die? And then afterwards, do they have equal standing in tau society?

They're imperialists. Not the nasty kind, but imperialists none the less

purplefood wrote:

WarOne wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:Yes.

Hmm...very convincing. But I need proof in order to decide.

So far, we have races that have been peacefully integrated (bug peeps, lizard/bird eaters, space dwarves).

Think of it this way.
The British Empire was Imperialist and people joined them peacefully though quite a few didn't want to and were conquered for their troubles. Much like the British Empire the Tau Empire places a higher value on Tau citizens than others. They may not be racist or out rightly discriminatory but they favour Tau over others...

They're not necessarily racist, but they are extremely arrogant towards non-Tau cultures at the very least.

Even the Imperium is more open to cultural differences than the Tau are.

Melissia wrote:

purplefood wrote:

WarOne wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:Yes.

Hmm...very convincing. But I need proof in order to decide.

So far, we have races that have been peacefully integrated (bug peeps, lizard/bird eaters, space dwarves).

Think of it this way.
The British Empire was Imperialist and people joined them peacefully though quite a few didn't want to and were conquered for their troubles. Much like the British Empire the Tau Empire places a higher value on Tau citizens than others. They may not be racist or out rightly discriminatory but they favour Tau over others...

They're not necessarily racist, but they are extremely arrogant towards non-Tau cultures at the very least.

I didn't say they were...

WarOne wrote:

coolyo294 wrote:Yes.

Hmm...very convincing. But I need proof in order to decide.

So far, we have races that have been peacefully integrated (bug peeps, lizard/bird eaters, space dwarves).

There are racesthat integrate such as the Kroot and Vespid, but there are also ountless Imperial world that have resisted the greater good. And these planets the Tau not only invade, but they also destory the military and any inhabitants.

Heck, the Imperium basically asks three things: Worship the Emperor in some form or other, don't worship Chaos, and pay your goddamned taxes.

Do those things, and they'll quite possibly leave you to your own devices. Tau are much more strict about enforcing their culture on conquered citizens.

Tau are not join or die. They lack the firepower to enforce it. They also have an excessive diplomatic core. The tau have different levels or relations with all kinds of different races. These can be open warfare like with the orks. Simple trade relations like with some human worlds. Packs of cooperation like with the kroot. Full integration and possible mind control like the vespin. If you just try and say that there only mantra is join or die, you are really ignoring all these different levels of alliance.

They're not Imperialists in the 19th Century sense, i.e. "All your bases are belong to us, live with it". Rather they're imperialists in the Soviet sense, spreading and enforcing their ideology through military domination for the betterment of all peoples everywhere.

It does seem Tau races like the Kroot joined willingly though.

"Tau - First Amongst Equals"

That's the title of the second paragraph about the empire. Just like the original intent of the developers, the tau entice (threaten, trick, bribe, ect) people to join them. not be subservient to them. (you could argue that they are subservient to the aue caste, but that would also apply to the tau themselves.) Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything to suggest that they treat there alien vassals poorly. It actually gets kind of silly with there understanding. They still let humans worship the emperor.

nomotog wrote:They still let humans worship the emperor.

They also think the Emperor is still alive somewhere too. They don't understand what he actually is.

DarknessEternal wrote:

nomotog wrote:They still let humans worship the emperor.

They also think the Emperor is still alive somewhere too. They don't understand what he actually is.

Just like they thought they had killed Slannesh.

Rome was incredibly tolerant to those they conquered. Worship whatever you want, just don't rise up against us and respect the emperor. It's when people disobeyed that they were put down, and they were still an empire.
It's simply the case that any nation that absorbs other territories outside of their own identity set turns into an empire, because you cannot be equal with separate identities. Not that you are unequal, but the conqueror views you as different, and took you for the reason of resources.

DarknessEternal wrote:

nomotog wrote:They still let humans worship the emperor.

They also think the Emperor is still alive somewhere too. They don't understand what he actually is.

So wait, they think that is really around. Why haven't they tried to talk to him or send him a email?

Mostly because they're a tiny, naive, and strikingly new empire on the edge of Imperial space, whom is diplomatically competent but inexperienced?

I question how much the average Imperial even knows about the Emperor. Do they even know he's on the Golden Throne on Terra and not in "heaven" somewhere? I can see Astartes/Inquisition and what not knowing but otherwise they just seem to call him the "Immortal God Emperor" or what have you. I haven't seen any mention of the Golden Throne or the fact he's hooked up to there in Ecclesiarchy material for instance.

Harriticus wrote:I question how much the average Imperial even knows about the Emperor. Do they even know he's on the Golden Throne on Terra and not in "heaven" somewhere? I can see Astartes/Inquisition and what not knowing but otherwise they just seem to call him the "Immortal God Emperor" or what have you. I haven't seen any mention of the Golden Throne or the fact he's hooked up to there in Ecclesiarchy material for instance.

Apart from everyone mentionning the Golden Throne every other sentence... they might not know what it does but they know he sits on it.

Bla I might have derailed another thread. Tau are imperialists. They can be nice about it. They aren't called the tau empire for show you know.

The Tau derail guns have once again worked perfectly.

nomotog wrote:Bla I might have derailed another thread. Tau are imperialists. They can be nice about it. They aren't called the tau empire for show you know.

To be an Empire you have to be ruled by a monarch though, which the Tau lack. Silly Tau named themselves wrong.

Actually the aun titles translate as prince king and ect. They also rule by birth right.

Lord
Prince
Prelate
King
Holy Ones
Highest of the Holy

Melissia wrote:Heck, the Imperium basically asks three things: Worship the Emperor in some form or other, don't worship Chaos, and pay your goddamned taxes.

Do those things, and they'll quite possibly leave you to your own devices. Tau are much more strict about enforcing their culture on conquered citizens.

Of course, there's also the "be human" requirement. Tau don't have an analogue there.

Interesting I always thought the Ethereal Council was a council of appointed elders rather then a royal family.

Harriticus wrote:Interesting I always thought the Ethereal Council was a council of appointed elders rather then a royal family.

They are both. "philosopher kings" You have to be born an aue. (I always wonder like what dose a aue kid do?) Though I don't think you get to be Governor of sector sigma because your dad was Governor of sector sigma, or maybe you do. We don't know a lot about them.