1500 Eldar List

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**xlEternitylx**

Hey all. Another test list, I look forward to your critiques!

HQ
Eldrad....210

Troops
6x Guardian Jetbikes
- 2x Shuriken Cannon.......152

6x Guardian Jetbikes
- 2x Shuriken Cannon.......152

6x Guardian Jetbikes
- 1x Shuriken Cannon.......142

5x Dire Avengers
- Wave Serpent
- TL Shuriken Cannon.......160

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
- Wave Serpent
- Star Engines
- Spirit Stones
- Star Cannon........230

Heavy
Fire Prism
- Holofields.......150

Fire Prism
- Holofields.......150

Fire Prism
- Holofields.......150

Total: 1496

So, basically, Eldrad runs with the Fire Dragons, and is the main Anti-Tank. Fire Prisms sit back and do their thing, and the bikes/DA serpent continually boost around for the 3+ save. This any good??

Thanks!

**Iranna**

I must say, I don't like this list.

That's not to say that it couldn't work, I know that for me it certainly wouldn't.

The main problem with this list is what I call "Hybrid Syndrome", meaning that it's almost like a Jetdar-Mechdar combo which, usually, fails.

However my advice would be:

1. Drop all the Jetbikes. If you really want some, Have a 3 man squad with a Shuriken Cannon and a Warlock w/ Embolden and they can be your objective contesters.

2. You really need more Fire Dragons: the rule of thumb is 2 minimum. The last thing you need is your opponent kill their serpent and your only reliable AT gone.

3. Instead of Eldrad maybe think about taking just a normal Doomseer with Guide and Spirit Stones, Runes of Warding and Runes of Witnessing. It'll be cheaper and almost as effective.

4. Put EML on all your Serpents: You really lack in anti-horde/light-tank.

Hope this helps!

Iranna.

**Lt. Coldfire**

This is what I would do:
Take the Star Cannon off of the FD wave serpent, for sure. Put on a SC instead. I doubt you'll need star engines either, but if the spirit moves you then go for it.
Take off holo-fields from the prisms.
From there, do what you can to fit in another squad of FD's.
I think that Eldrad can be very useful, but I don't see him doing much in this list. Sending him with the FD's is practically a suicide mission. FD's aren't painted like traffic cones for nothing, not to mention the FD's don't really need his support... they are more than capable of taking out a tank by themselves and frankly, fortuning them or any such shenanigan's isn't really going to help them much. With that said, I think this list would make more use of an Autarch on a jetbike, or Yriel if you're feeling gutsy (you could send him with the FD's and have him break off to attack another unit when you disembark).

**xlEternitylx**

Okay, take two:

HQ
Farseer
-Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide.....125

Farseer
-Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide.....125

Troops
3x Guardian Jetbikes
-Shuriken Cannon
-Warlock w/ Embolden.......126

3x Guardian Jetbikes
-Shuriken Cannon
-Warlock w/ Embolden.......126

5x Dire Avengers
-Wave Serpent w/ EML.....180

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Exarch w/ Firepike, Crack Shot
-Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stones, EML.....235

5x Fire Dragons
-Exarch w/ Firepike, Crack Shot
-Wave Serpent w/ Spirit Stones, EML.....235

Heavy
Fire Prism.........115
Fire Prism.........115
Fire Prism.........115

Total 1497.

More in tune? Better?

**Lt. Coldfire**

I don't really understand why you're sending Farseer's with the fire dragons... they're just going to die when you disembark. Unless you plan on flying the Farseer around in the WS for whatever reason?

**xlEternitylx**

The Farseer stays in the WS. I figured he Fortunes them on the way there to make sure they survive, then guides them when they disembark. Once the FD are out, they do their thing and the Farseer can go and support the bikes.

Would this not work? Too risky?

**Lt. Coldfire**

Not risky, but it gets kind of expensive. The beauty of fire dragons is that they can take out high AV targets for their cheap cost of 80 points. You take away from that when you add a 125 point farseer to help them get there and then next thing you know your 80 point tank buster turns into a 205 point tank buster that will pretty much need to take out a land raider just to break even in points. I'm not feeling it.
I think it's best to take a naked five man squad of FD's, throw them in a Wave Serpent with spirit stones and a Shuri Cannon, and call it good. Cheap, effective, but most of all... cheap. I think that's 190 points if I'm not mistaken (no codex present as I'm at work). Your FD squad and serpent as it stands now is 235 points each + 125 point farseer. 360 points! Egads! And two of them! 720 points! Much better off going with two squads of naked 5 man FD's in WS as I described, coming out to 380 points.
As for HQ's, unless you put in a farseer or two on a jetbike, I'm thinking autarchs are the way to go with this list.

**xlEternitylx**

Ahh, I see what you mean. Would it be better to do a Seer Council on bikes, or 2 Seers on Bikes, or 2 Autarchs?

**Lt. Coldfire**

Hmm, well I like the jetseer council personally, but you're getting into something else going with the council lol.
I think one autarch would suffice, and then work on filling out the jetbike squads out more like they were in your first list.

**Iranna**

Stay away from Jetseers unless you really know what you're doing: they're a very unforgiving unit if you make any mistakes.

Iranna.

**Smitty0305**

What will Eldrad be doing?

Nothing needs fortune, nothing needs guide, and nothing needs doom lol. You dont need Eldrad.

Drop Eldrad, bring a DoomSeer or something that will support a unit, drop a squad of GJB. Bring 3 squads of 5 fire dragons in scatter laser serpents with no stones no star cannons.

2 Prisms, 3 War Walkers with scatters guided is a better Heavy combo tbh.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iranna wrote:Stay away from Jetseers unless you really know what you're doing: they're a very unforgiving unit if you make any mistakes.

Iranna.

The only mistake you can make is not having fortune up....and its not hard to roll two dice lol.

**xlEternitylx**

Thanks for the tips thus far, just one question: What is the Seer Council supposed to do? Support? Offensive?

**wuestenfux**

xlEternitylx wrote:Thanks for the tips thus far, just one question: What is the Seer Council supposed to do? Support? Offensive?

It can take on each enemy unit out there in the 40k universe. My Council charged a C'tan, GK Termies, normal Termies, Destroyers or tanks like Mono* and LRs. It never disappointed me.

**Lt. Coldfire**

xlEternitylx wrote:Thanks for the tips thus far, just one question: What is the Seer Council supposed to do? Support? Offensive?

Read Smitty's batreps on them

: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391746.page

**xlEternitylx**

Ahhh, got it. Mobile CC Deathstar.
But, I notice that they don't have power weapons. Is this offset by the fact that it is wound on 2+ with doom rerolls? I mean, I can see the Seer council tied up by a group of Tac Rines.

I read the battle report. It was very helpful, but it doesn't describe how to use the Seer council in CC. I mean, embolden, Enhance, Doom obviously. But like, I usually use Termies when I play SM, so I understand how to use them. They have the save and ignore armor. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it seems like the Seer Council isn't a CC unit, but yet, it is.

Smitty0305 wrote:Jetseer council has Re-rollable 3+ armor saves with fortune, WS5 and INI5 with Enhance and can re-roll LD. The Jetseer council also gets 3 Str9 CC attacks on the charge. Karandras has 7 str8 PF attacks on the charge, and the striking scorpions support him.

If Seers meet anything with a save, it doesn't matter how strong the attack is - a Power Armor save of 3+ negates it. I guess I'm skeptical. As for the Big K, I can't figure out how he has 7 PF attacks...

Help?!?

**Lt. Coldfire**

Ok, well, on the charge they're going to get 3 Str.9 CC attacks at I5, WS5 that wound on a 2+. It will force quite a bit of saves, but really it mops up vehicles. Look at Smitty's first batrep where he multi-asaulted 3 vehicles lol. Classic.
Most people also give the council Destructors which are Str.5 AP4 flamer templates -- good way to soften up squads before you move in for the witchblade assault.

Karandras gets 7 PF attacks because he has:
Base attack of 4
Special mandiblasters that confer +2 attacks
+1 attack on the charge
He has a scorpion's claw which counts as a powerfist (his base str. is 4, so that's a str.8 PF he's got)

**xlEternitylx**

Okay, this is quickly making more sense. I get the Seer council now, and Karandras' attacks. Seems big K is out for the 1500pts level, but 1750+ he looks good. One last question about the Council: Is more better? I notice that a lot of times I see a group of 6 locks + 1 Seer. Is this a point limit thing, or a tried and true number?

(PS, thanks for bearing with me

)

**Lt. Coldfire**

It pretty much depends on how many points you want to pour into them. It'll come down to preference, but since you're looking at a 1.5k list, maybe it would be a good idea to keep them below 500 points so you don't have more than 1/3 of the points stuffed into one unit. But yes, I do think 6 locks + a seer is a good number as 8+ can tend to be overkill, but on the other hand if you can get those 8+ into the right spots at the right times, then they can seriously ruin your opponent's day.

**wuestenfux**

xlEternitylx wrote:Okay, this is quickly making more sense. I get the Seer council now, and Karandras' attacks. Seems big K is out for the 1500pts level, but 1750+ he looks good. One last question about the Council: Is more better? I notice that a lot of times I see a group of 6 locks + 1 Seer. Is this a point limit thing, or a tried and true number?

(PS, thanks for bearing with me )

Well, I generally run a Council on foot mounted in a Serpent - its harder to pull off but also more rewarding. A small Council doesn't cut it. Take at least 6 Warlocks, better are 8 to 10 when on foot, with embolden twice and enhance once. Doom is not really worth it as witch blades wound on 2+.

**xlEternitylx**

Revamped again with the Seer Council added.

HQ
Farseer
-Warding, Witnessing, Jetbike, Fortune......140

6x Warlocks
-6x Jetbikes, 1x Embolden, 1x Enhance, 4x Destructor.....330

Troops
3x Guardian Jetbikes
-1x Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Embolden......126

3x Guardian Jetbikes
-1x Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Embolden......126

3x Guardian Jetbikes
-1x Shuriken Cannon.......76

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-Exarch w/ Firepike, Crackshot
-WS w/ Spirit Stones, EML..........235

5x Fire Dragons
-Exarch w/ Firepike, Crackshot
-WS w/ Spirit Stones, EML..........235

Heavy
Fire Prism.....115
Fire Prism.....115

Total 1498.

Getting on the right track?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I generally run a Council on foot mounted in a Serpent - its harder to pull off but also more rewarding. A small Council doesn't cut it. Take at least 6 Warlocks, better are 8 to 10 when on foot, with embolden twice and enhance once. Doom is not really worth it as witch blades wound on 2+.

How does them being foot runners make the "more rewarding" part? I can see the uses of an extra WS, and why you would need a bigger group (in general, but moreso for foot-sloggers), but I can't see how losing the bikes helps. Is it the fact you have other points to spare? It can't be much - I mean, 7 bikes = 140 points. That has to be split among extra warlocks, a WS and its weapons. Can you explain further?

**wuestenfux**

Well, as I said, a Council on foot is harder to pull off with respect to timing (i.e., disembarking from a close-topped vehicile and charging).
A small Council can be shot down by small arms fire. My Council on foot has never less than 8 Warlocks.

**xlEternitylx**

Gotcha. I suppose since I'm going bikes, the 6 locks and the seer should be a big enough group. I'll have to try out the Council for sure. Any major last minute things I missed? I'll likely be using this list in a day or so...

Thanks

**Lt. Coldfire**

I like that list, Eternity. I think you will find that the fire dragon exarches are unnecessary though, but try them out and see what you think. Typically 5 BS4 melta shots are enough to do the job on their own.
Here's a thought:
Drop the two fire dragon exarches, you get 50 pts back.
Replace your wave serpent EML's with shuri cannons (you're going to get close anyways with the FD's). With that you get 40 points back.
90 points = just enough to add two jetlocks with withblades!

**wuestenfux**

Lt. Coldfire wrote:I like that list, Eternity. I think you will find that the fire dragon exarches are unnecessary though, but try them out and see what you think. Typically 5 BS4 melta shots are enough to do the job on their own.
Here's a thought:
Drop the two fire dragon exarches, you get 50 pts back.
Replace your wave serpent EML's with shuri cannons (you're going to get close anyways with the FD's). With that you get 40 points back.
90 points = just enough to add two jetlocks with withblades!

True. The Exarchs are not really needed. Adding more Jetlocks would be useful as said.

**xlEternitylx**

Hmmm, now you've got me thinking bout those Exarchs. I like the idea of 2 more Warlocks

. But, don't the warlocks need a power? I'd need another 10 points for the Emboldens.

The problem I see is what Iranna mentioned earlier - no real anti-horde. I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but which looks better: the aforementioned list, or this one:

HQ
Farseer
-Warding, Witnessing, Jetbike, Fortune......140

6x Warlocks
-6x Jetbikes, 1x Embolden, 1x Enhance, 4x Destructor.....330

Troops
3x Guardian Jet Bikes......66
3x Guardian Jet Bikes......66
3x Guardian Jet Bikes......66

5x Dire Avengers
-WS w/ EML............180

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-WS w/ Spirit Stones, EML..........210

5x Fire Dragons
-WS w/ Spirit Stones, EML..........210

Heavy
Fire Prism........115
Fire Prism........115

Total 1498

Same total, but took away the exarchs from the FD and the locks from the GJB. This gave me enough for a another DA WS w/ EML. Worth the sacrifices?

If this new list is better, that works. If not, I'll try the council at both 6 and 8 locks.

EDIT: Re-read the lock entry. "May buy" oops. So should I drop the 4 destructors? That would give me enough to still have the EML and the extra 2 locks.

**wuestenfux**

Warlocks can get a power but need not. GJB squadrons of 3 without a heavy weapon are rather pointless. They need to get too close to the enemy to do some damage. I'd replace these 3 units by one unit of 6 GJBs with shuricannon and a Jetlock with spear and embolden.

**xlEternitylx**

The more I think about it, the more I like the other list. So, updated, this is what I am going with.

HQ
Farseer
-Warding, Witnessing, Jetbike, Fortune......140

8x Warlocks
-8x Jetbikes, 1x Embolden, 1x Enhance.....380

Troops
3x Guardian Jetbikes
-1x Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Embolden......126

3x Guardian Jetbikes
-1x Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Embolden......126

3x Guardian Jetbikes
-1x Shuriken Cannon.......76

Elites
5x Fire Dragons
-WS w/ Spirit Stones, EML..........210

5x Fire Dragons
-WS w/ Spirit Stones, EML..........210

Heavy
Fire Prism.....115
Fire Prism.....115

Total 1498.

I like it. ^^This is the list I'm taking to the table tomorrow. (I now have to go and buy two more jetbikes, but hey.) My last question is I have noticed that GW doesn't have Seers on Bikes, or Warlocks on bikes. I have some models that have Witchblades and Exarch heads, but they fit perfectly on bikes. I can't remember where I got them...any idea?

(And again, thanks!!)

**Lt. Coldfire**

Final list looks good.
This is what I did with my jetlock council:

Silver surfers ftw.

**wuestenfux**

Pic looks good. What's the jetbike mount?

**Lt. Coldfire**

Oh, and I still stand by replacing those EML's with shuri cannons. Warlocks don't have to take a power, but I think 4 destructors will do you a lot more good than 2 EML's.
If you're looking for some anti-horde, think about how much damage you can do with four Str.5 AP4 flamer templates versus 2 EML's that are going to be turbo boosting to get the FD's in position.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

wuestenfux wrote:Pic looks good. What's the jetbike mount?

They're guardian heavy weapon platforms lol

: