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So, I'm not really looking for generic tactics advice. I've got "pointy end goes into the thing you want to kill" down pretty well. I'm certainly not looking for advice for tailoring.

I have a pretty solid grasp on what I did right and wrong, but I wanted to relate my experience playing Necrons, and see what people thought. It was a killpoint game, 1850 points. My list was my standard load, with some minimal tweaks (see below). His list is as below. So already, out of the gate, it's 16 fragile killpoints to 8 very resilient ones. Not looking good for me. I've never played against Necrons before, but I've read enough to know that in this situation I need to go for the Phase Out, and there's really no other way around it.

So, I get first turn, pitched battle. I line up my power blob and chimeras at about the 12" mark. Demolisher is behind cover, waiting for them to get close, and I found a nice piece of terrain to hide behind such that the bottom half of my LRBT My plan is to try to overrun them in melee with the blobs to get around the ressurection orb. Stormtroopers are deepstriking in.

He deploys 2 lords and the 2 20 man squads across the table. Monoliths and the other warriors are in reserve.

1.
I start by advancing everything and firing the russ and a few chimeras at the horde. Three stay down next turn.

He moves forward with both squads.

2.
I get Al'rahem and advance forward with the power blob on table and the outflanking powerblob. Neither of the storm troopers come in. I get set up so that I can have both blobs catch one of his squads in a pincer next turn. The armor takes out another couple necrons.

He deep strikes the monoliths. They crash down in the midst of my vehicles in roughly the middle of the board, scooting me out of the way. They then particle whip and gauss thingy a vendetta and my demolisher dead, not to mention stun and shake a handful of my other vehicles.

3.
I get my melta stormies in, and they fire into one of the warrior squads, dropping 3, with two staying down next turn. The powerblobs get the charge in, and decimate one of the warriors squads. Nothing left.

He gets in another squad of warriors and takes out one of my chimeras with the other Monolith. Gauss thingies screw up a bunch of other vehicles. He has the monoliths spaced in such a way he's covering about half the table. He causes a PCS and the stormtrooper squad to run from casualties. The other warrior squad with necron lord moves away from me, since he's already vastly leading kill points.

4.
I get my plasma stormies in, they deep strike into terrain, so I reroll, only to have them deep strike about 11 inches directly off the board. Destroyed, of course. Remaining Russ scatters off course. I manage to get one powerblob into melee in spite of the distance he put between us. His necron lord doesn't end up getting into the fight yet. My guys whiff for the most part, only getting about 3 wounds total. The one that wasn't from the power weapons saves, and then one of the two stands up next turn. His guys shred me with some crazy dice rolling. He got 14 of 17 possible hits, and then ended up going to wound 8 of my guys.

He gets his last necron squad out, and does some more shooting on me to grab some more killpoints. My CCS chimera is blown up.

5.
CCS evaporates a remaining squad. Russ misses spectacularly again. At this point, he's down to about 20 Necrons on the board, and I need to take him down to 15 for phase out. Not much goes on in the melee.

He pours everything he's got into my CCS, taking it down. My powerblob continues to roll below average, and after the necron lord gets me down to 4 people, i decide to pull the plug on the commissar, and the squad breaks, hoping that we will go another turn.

We don't. He wins KP by a landslide, and I lose for want of four necrons.

---
Other than smash my dice, is there anything else obvious that I should/could have done?

I didn't realize that the Monoliths had such amazing weaponry or them, or that they could fire out of deepstrike, or that they could land on my guys without consequence. I kind of feel like I should have sat on the table edge until he landed them, forcing them to either not be able to flank me, or have to deep strike dangerously close to the table edge.

I also feel like I should have accepted the first roll for the plasma storm troopers, even though it was going to result in dangerous terrain tests and not being able to shoot that turn.

Finally, I think my last BIG mistake was not keeping the blobs together and trying to double team that last warrior squad. Compared with the massacre that came from the first assault though, I figured I had it in the bag.
--

Thoughts?

List:


Opponents List

Give him first turn. Its hugely beneficial vs necrons for several reasons:

1) His monoliths have a placement problem, because he doesnt know where the bulk of your force will come from.

2) If he were to hold warriors in reserve, this lets you advance the likelihood of his coming in before you do. If he decides to keep his necron models safe, this negates some of that.

3) He's mostly got long range stuff and monoliths. Hide from it.

Honestly dude it just really seems to me like your dice were ice cold and his were not.

He is correct in the fact that the monoliths do not misshap if they land on your troops, your troops just have to simply make room. (i had this happen to me in an apoc game)

Going for the phase out isnt always the best option either especially when he has soo many troops and he really did a good job keeping his troops away from yours for the most part. When you finally did get to his troops his dice were smoking hot.

In other words dont panic at all man. You have a solid ig list and some terrible dice. Time to get some new ones

Cheers
Gray

I see Necrons around here pretty frequently, and you did fairly well. It's a little hard for me to visualize from a battle report, but I did have a couple of questions.

In turn 3 you mention killing 2 out of the 3 you dropped with meltas. I'm assuming they were within 6' of one of the Necron Lords in order to get a WBB roll at all.

When the Monoliths started firing, did you scatter, or just hold your ground? I've heard people advocate both.

Honestly, it never feels like I'm beating Necrons until I do. Right up until the Phase Out it always seems like I'm getting my tuchas handed to me. You dropped 40+ of his 63 Necrons, and only failed to hit the Phase Out by 4. You were damn close. You list a half a dozen places where the dice just turned on you. I sincerely feel like you were just the victim of some traitorous polyhedrons this time out.

I usually try and gick the lord first, though, especially if your opponent is using that Rez orb to keep as many of his troops as possible in the fight.

I am not sure if I am reading this wrong but if he is firing the particle whip and the guass flux arc that is illegal

Jimsolo wrote:I see Necrons around here pretty frequently, and you did fairly well. It's a little hard for me to visualize from a battle report, but I did have a couple of questions.

In turn 3 you mention killing 2 out of the 3 you dropped with meltas. I'm assuming they were within 6' of one of the Necron Lords in order to get a WBB roll at all.

Yes, that's correct.

When the Monoliths started firing, did you scatter, or just hold your ground? I've heard people advocate both.

I completely ignored them, and went on about my business. I mean, if I didn't have anything better going on, I got away from them, but for the most part, I stayed around them if there was a meaningful reason to.

Did he shoot his Particle Whip and Gauss Flux Arc at the same time? It sounded like it from your description of what happened after he deep struck the Monoliths.

If so, he shouldn't have.

Yeah, he was using both, each turn Warriors weren't coming out of the portal. That's wrong? Can you cite the specific reason why?

The Particle Whip is an Ordnance Weapon. If you fire an Ordnance Weapon you can't fire anything else.

I don't have my rulebook handy, maybe one of these kind gentlemen can provide us with a page reference. Part of your problem was that those Monoliths were actually putting out a lot more shots than they should have, and someone rolling well with the GFA can do some serious damage.

I believe it is pg 58 of the brb talkin about ordinance weapons.

Although the partical whip can always fire (if you don't use the teleporter), the flux arcs are bound by normal firing restrictions. If you fire your ordinance partical whip, you are not allowed to fire your flux arcs.

Siure Monster Rain,no probz.

It is bottom of Pg 58,BRB.

Deadshot and omerakk are my heroes.

Thanks, gents!

omerakk wrote:
Although the partical whip can always fire (if you don't use the teleporter), the flux arcs are bound by normal firing restrictions. If you fire your ordinance partical whip, you are not allowed to fire your flux arcs.

Okay, I think this was the particular part that I was iffy about. He said there was a rule it had that made it like the Leman Russ, but I'm guessing it was the one that said the whip can always fire, and he conflated it into being the same as the Russ's rule.

Thanks, everyone!

daedalus wrote:Thanks, everyone!

Glad to help!

His list lacked any weapon over 24in range... Hell the warriors would have to stand still to fire even that far.

I would have shot him up at range until he got close and THEN proceeded with your strategy. You gave him range on you too quickly. That said, you had some seriously bad luck.

Some rules notes your friend doesn't seem to be aware of:
1. As the others have said, you can do ONE of the following three things with a monolith: use its portal, use the gauss flux arc, use the particle whip

2. Any warriors kept in reserve must, at the start of the game, be declared as to if they're coming through a monolith portal or board edge. If they declare coming through a monolith, and no monolith is out they are delayed. If it is no longer possible for them to come out (ie. no more monoliths left) then they're treated as destroyed.

3. You need to roll for reserves on both the monoliths and the warriors in reserve. It is not a transport, and thus is not part of a unit with the warriors. You need to have the monolith come in from reserve, and then warriors need to come in from reserve.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:

omerakk wrote:
Although the partical whip can always fire (if you don't use the teleporter), the flux arcs are bound by normal firing restrictions. If you fire your ordinance partical whip, you are not allowed to fire your flux arcs.

Okay, I think this was the particular part that I was iffy about. He said there was a rule it had that made it like the Leman Russ, but I'm guessing it was the one that said the whip can always fire, and he conflated it into being the same as the Russ's rule.

Thanks, everyone!

The rule he's talking about isn't even close. It is, literally "The power matrix cannot be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result, and may be used even if the monolith moves, is shaken, or stunned." That's it. Since the whip is a part of the matrix, you cannot destroy it, however it is still subject to all of the normal firing requirements of a weapon of its type (specifically the ordinance weapon rules that have already been stated)


It's also probably worth noting there is a certain hierarchy to how the matrix functions. If a unit of warriors designated to come through a monolith enters from reserves, you MUST use the portal to place them, even if you'd rather use the portal to bring a wounded unit through or fire the whip.

If a Warrior unit using a portal does show up, they MUST disembark from a Monolith.

The Demolisher is a fair threat to Monoliths.

You got some unlucky rolls, and he rolled amazingly. All 3 Monoliths on the same turn? Multiple flux arc (others have covered that he can't shoot both) damage results, when he gets d6 shots and needs 6s to glance most things? I mean, you average just 2.3 hits with the thing per target.

Sitting on the back edge won't win KP vs. his army. The Monoliths are going to rack up some KP regardless, and downing the small Warrior units through a Rez orb won't be easy with your list. You had to be aggressive.

You can always move flat out and ram the monolith with your vendetta if it can't shoot

Vendettas aren't tanks,so they can't ram.Believe me,if non-tanks could ram,my SR would be crashing into rhninoes all over the place,and still blasting away with its MM at survivors.

Deadshot wrote:Vendettas aren't tanks,so they can't ram.

False. Any vehicle can ram, tanks just get a bonus.

WWWWWHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

I have the guys at my FLGS telling me that only tanks can ram!!!!!Suddenly my Land Speeder Storm is useful again!!!!Suicide flat out into the side of a rhnio,followed by some scout shotgun fire from the wreckage.

Now you guys have me second guessing it lol

As per the faq, only vehicles that are capable of tank shocking are allowed to ram. This includes ones that are granted the ability to shock via wargear like a reinforced ram.

So I guess that actually disqualifies the vendetta since it can't tank shock?

Monster Rain wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Vendettas aren't tanks,so they can't ram.

False. Any vehicle can ram, tanks just get a bonus.

From memory, you must be able to tank shock to ram, since ramming is "a special form of tank shock". And being a tank is a pre-requisite of tank shocking.

Otherwise, answers in the FAQ like these would be erroneous:

Games Workshop Rulebook FAQ wrote:

Q: Does a vehicle upgrade that allows a non-tank
vehicle to perform a tank shock (e.g. a reinforced ram)
also allow that vehicle to perform ramming attacks?
(p69)
A: Yes.

If every vehicle could tank shock, that question wouldn't need answering.

No Vandettas cannot ram. Specially since in the ramming section, it says " Ramming is a rather desperate manoeuvre and means that the tank must concentrate on moving top speed towards one enemy vehicle"

Only tanks can ram.

*just read the FAQ, so yea, if it can tankshock then it can ram as stated above

Wow I failed pretty hard there, I guess. Why do they give a bonus for being a tank if only tanks can do it?

Well remember, the tank also takes a hit from the vehicle it rammed. The return hit you take from ramming a tank could and should hurt more than the return hit you take from ramming a skimmer or light transport

In addition some other vehicles (ork trukks most notably) have upgrades that allow them to tank shock (and thus allow them to ram) but are not Tanks themselves.


That rule serves to make a Trukk ram less dangerous than a Tank ram.

KingCracker wrote:No Vandettas cannot ram. Specially since in the ramming section, it says " Ramming is a rather desperate manoeuvre and means that the tank must concentrate on moving top speed towards one enemy vehicle"

Only tanks can ram.

*just read the FAQ, so yea, if it can tankshock then it can ram as stated above

Monster Rain wrote:Wow I failed pretty hard there, I guess. Why do they give a bonus for being a tank if only tanks can do it?

Two words: Magna Grapple


Yes, you can cause non-tanks to tank shock with it:
"Q: Can a magna-grapple cause a non-tank vehicle to tank
shock? (p60)
A: Yes." ~BA FAQ

It's actually a favorite pastime of mine. The look on their face when you magna-grapple a vindicator into a squad, only to then assault the vindicator since that was the target of your shooting phase XD

Well I just wanted to say I noticed a couple things he did wrong that he shouldn't be allowed to do.

His monoliths are not allowed to deep strike and fire in the same turn unless I can be proven wrong. Deepstriking counts as moving at cruising speed and you are not allowed to fire any guns if you are moving at cruising speed including defensive weapons.

He cannot fire both the particle whip and the gauss flux arc in the same shooting phase. The particle whip is a weird gun since it isn't a destroyable gun but still follows the rules for it otherwise. Since it is an ordnance weapon he may not fire any other guns with that tank including the flux arc. This is in the necron faq itself.

His monoliths are not allowed to deep strike and fire in the same turn unless I can be proven wrong. Deepstriking counts as moving at cruising speed and you are not allowed to fire any guns if you are moving at cruising speed including defensive weapons.

The partical whip can always be fired, even after deepstriking. The flux arcs, however, are still bound by all normal gun rules including this one, which means they can't be fired after deepstriking and can't be fired if the partical whip or teleport function were used