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Well first of all i think we all now about how Games Workshop is Increasing in shop rules lately, Have they now gone a little bit too far?
After a brief search i couldn't find anything on this in forums, apologies if already posted.

Well in store today my brother was writing lists with a well known member of staff that we talk to regularly, and whilst in the process of writing his Army lists the member of staff told him that He shouldn't include any forge world models in his lists as there not being allowed in store except for the apocalypse game once a week.
The staff member told him that they wont be allowed in store as they don't sell them in shop off of the shelf.

Anyway i think of this it doesn't make much sense as isn't forge world run by Games workshop? Thus losing them money on people who may only be able to play in a GW store, And in addition to this it couldn't it potentially stop people walking in store, seeing people gaming with some forge world models and stop them thinking "Cool!" I want one of those,
Anyway whats your opinion on this?

Situational.

If he wants to use the forge world models to represent units from the codex, he should be allowed.

If he wants to use forge world rules, then it is acceptable to limit them to apoc games. On the other hand, if both players are cool with the forge world rules, then it should be okay.

Tell him to take the name of the employee and then write a well written, polite and succinct letter to Mark Wells asking why GW owned product is not allowed into a GW store.


Or are you mistaken and what was told was actually 'can't use Forgeworld specific models/rules in standard games in store' in which case, don't really see the problem as it's a fairly common rule.

If I challenge someone to 40k, I'd be a bit peevish about them showing up with a titan or superheavy unless agreed prior.

bladedge13 wrote:Well first of all i think we all now about how Games Workshop is Increasing in shop rules lately, Have they now gone a little bit too far?
After a brief search i couldn't find anything on this in forums, apologies if already posted.

Well in store today my brother was writing lists with a well known member of staff that we talk to regularly, and whilst in the process of writing his Army lists the member of staff told him that He shouldn't include any forge world models in his lists as there not being allowed in store except for the apocalypse game once a week.
The staff member told him that they wont be allowed in store as they don't sell them in shop off of the shelf.

Anyway i think of this it doesn't make much sense as isn't forge world run by Games workshop? Thus losing them money on people who may only be able to play in a GW store, And in addition to this it couldn't it potentially stop people walking in store, seeing people gaming with some forge world models and stop them thinking "Cool!" I want one of those,
Anyway whats your opinion on this?

I think the decision is stupid but it's not a new one. The news of this move hit a while back (at least 6 months ago). While I wholeheartedly support GW's right to not allow other companies' models to be played with in their stores, I think its absolutely boneheaded to limit the models to what is currently available on the shelf. If GW ever made the product (either directly, licensed through someone else like armorcast, or via one of their wholey owned subsidiaries like FW) and its a legal codex entry modelling variant, it should be allowed as long as the game type supports that class of units. I'm just waiting for the first report of someone turned away from a GW store because they tried to play with OOP models as that is the next logical step. I think the issue the OP encountered was a mix of two things.. not allowing FW stuff in general because they can't sell it and see the product on their store's bottom line as well as trying to probably disallowing the use of FW rules as a general policy outside of apoc.

Sadly, the only focus in GW stores now is sales at that location only (and even for a specific salesperson) at the expense of common sense and the wellbeing of the company overall. The employees and their managers are simply sacked if they don't meet their sale quotas. If someone comes in and expresses an interest in an apocalypse unit, the salesperson will push one of the only three that they have available instore (baneblade chassis or stompa). If that customer sees a supercool FW variant of them being used or simply a completely different model on a tabletop that day and buys that through FW instead, the employees get nothing from that interaction. GW as a whole still profits but the grunts on the front line get sacked because they weren't pushing what they had. GW needs to realize that a direct sale from GW to a customer is a good thing regardless of where each is located... until that time, everyone from corporate management to the peon red shirt at the register will just keep looking out only for themselves.

Oh dear the GW numpty brigade strikes again! Where will it end? You can't use conversions as they're not "off the shelf". No TWC or Tervigons fro you I'm afraid. Can't use that metal Logan Grimnar Mr Grimtuff, he's made of Failcast now, thus is not "off the shelf"...

It's actually more damaging to a GW employee to go in and make a small purchase from him or her than it is to buy nothing from them at all. All purchases done by them are looked at in review and they are chastised for not upselling enough to the person who 'just popped in for that paintbrush' or 'only wanted this one character for a painting project'.

The mean of their sales is then brought down and they get lower scores on reviews by management, because GW's management still think this is the 80s and that Gordon Gekko styled catchphrases, red braces and brick phones are the way to success.

Read the 'little red book' of Kirby and despair...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It's actually more damaging to a GW employee to go in and make a small purchase from him or her than it is to buy nothing from them at all. All purchases done by them are looked at in review and they are chastised for not upselling enough to the person who 'just popped in for that paintbrush' or 'only wanted this one character for a painting project'.

The mean of their sales is then brought down and they get lower scores on reviews by management, because GW's management still think this is the 80s and that Gordon Gekko styled catchphrases, red braces and brick phones are the way to success.

Read the 'little red book' of Kirby and despair...

Oh yes, I loved destroying GW's ATV by staying at the store to paint then feeling the random need to buy a single pot of paint every couple of hours....

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Read the 'little red book' of Kirby and despair...

I'd like to, but I've never been able to find a copy.




Anyway, if they don't want Forgeworld apoc stuff except on apoc night that's ok I suppose. But saying FW isn't allowed because it's 'not off the shelf' if just daft. Unfortunately a lot of GW product is not available off the shelf.

Speaking to my brother, It seems that Forgeworld models aren't even being allowed to used as Count as models,

Going off the only half or less of the line is in stock, can't you order something from the website and have it delivered to the store? You get your models, and the employee gets closer to his quota. Could work differently though.

bladedge13 wrote:Speaking to my brother, It seems that Forgeworld models aren't even being allowed to used as Count as models,

That's absurd.

I would go higher, with well written physical letters in this case.

Gw does not want players to bring in forgeworld items brought into the stores because is will devert customers from learning or purching the items in the store. Forgeworld has great looking models yet Gw is a little jealous of the monster they have greated taking all of the glory.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Or are you mistaken and what was told was actually 'can't use Forgeworld specific models/rules in standard games in store' in which case, don't really see the problem as it's a fairly common rule.

If I challenge someone to 40k, I'd be a bit peevish about them showing up with a titan or superheavy unless agreed prior.

I bet you wouldn't be peevish if you faced someone using a Sentinel Powerlifter though. Most Forgeworld units are extremely underwhelming. Not to mention the situation you describe is cheating, because super heavies can't be used in normal games anyway.

Yeaaaaaa, I'd get the employees name then ask said employee for a phone # / email address for the store manager. I'd do it like that to see if the employee is making it up or is it the manager.

If it's the manager making up these rules, I'd figure out who's the next up in the chain of command for that region/country and write them a well worded letter.

If I make no progress, I'd wait till I had a large "shopping list" of things I want to buy. I make the employee aware that I want to buy these things but after I have a game with some of my FW stuff (if only I had any Q_Q ) in the store. Put the store between a rock and a hard place of their own making.

-Edit- This is assuming using things like the Hydra in a normal game and/or banning non GW super heavies in pre-agreed upon games

-2nd Edit- Also note I know nothing of GW stores, having only bought a balrog from one years ago. Nearest one is several hundred miles away and I'm on a island in the Atlantic.

It seems like an odd maximising strategy. If I understand correctly people nowadays are only allowed to “officially” game at a GW store as long as they are using an army made entirely out of current “off the shelf” products purchased from that store?

candy.man wrote:It seems like an odd maximising strategy. If I understand correctly people nowadays are only allowed to “officially” game at a GW store as long as they are using an army made entirely out of current “off the shelf” products purchased from that store?

Makes me kinda glad GW pulled out of the NE area.

Interesting. Back in 04 this was enforced at my local GW Store concerning FW models.

It was one of the reasons why I would not buy a FW model for any of my armies. I never heard that this rule was ever lifted and then enforced again.

Strange.

At the Seattle bunker, not only do they fully allow Forge World models, but they'll place the order for you in the store. Yea, they charge sales tax but shipping is free and that means we make a little savings in the process.

ZatGuy wrote:If I make no progress, I'd wait till I had a large "shopping list" of things I want to buy. I make the employee aware that I want to buy these things but after I have a game with some of my FW stuff (if only I had any Q_Q ) in the store. Put the store between a rock and a hard place of their own making.

If they're serious about their 'no FW' policy, they're not even going to hesitate in assuming that you're just trying to rabble rouse and have no actual intention of buying anything anyway.

This sort of thing sounds clever on the internet, but wouldn't go over as well in real life as you might think.

Normally I stand up for GW when it comes to policies set in stores they own, and pay for...

But this situation looks as if you would be better served by voting with your wallet, letting the store manager know you are taking your business to a FLGS.

The only thing businesses understand is money. Take yours elsewhere.

I am glad our Local GW Manager (Name witheld) is so cool, no non-GW models are allowed, unless the model isn't made by GW (I.e. about 50% of Tyranids.) He will allow a scratch built as long as the astetic is GWesq... He is such an awesome manager I have stopped going to all the FLGSs and spend my time and money at his store. If nothing more than to just help him out with his numbers.

So I can't really relate to all these douchey GW employees you guys run into.

Sorry :(

Breotan wrote:At the Seattle bunker, not only do they fully allow Forge World models, but they'll place the order for you in the store. Yea, they charge sales tax but shipping is free and that means we make a little savings in the process.

The New York City GW currently sells the Forgeworld books in store, but no models. As recently as a year ago, they still advocated the purchase of Forgeworld stuff, via the in-store computer. Although I haven't played there in ages, I imagine they still advocate forgeworld, as they still carry the Imperial Armor books.

Opposite in ours actually. Had an *off the shelf painting comp*. Put together, prime and paint a finecast mini in two days.

Two of the guys ending up brings forgeworld models. That ain't off the shelf.

Opposite at my store. Everyone loves to use their models in the game if you have the rulebook.

In the GW in Dublin, they don't sell any metal models off the shelves anymore, they have to be mailed in. Does that mean I can't use my metal models in store?

Toastedandy wrote:In the GW in Dublin, they don't sell any metal models off the shelves anymore, they have to be mailed in. Does that mean I can't use my metal models in store?

That is entirely up to the person/staff running your store. At my local GW, the manager lets us use whatever models we want as long as our opponents don't mind. He does make it clear however, in the friendliest of ways, that he disapproves of the use of non-GW/FW models, i.e. Reaper minis, Scibor minis, etc. at the shop. He doesn't disallow them, just makes his opinions clear. Generally, there's only one or two guys I've seen with non-GW/FW models, but he's/they're not around much anyways.

but surely, if you go by this logic, races such as tau, who still have quite a large selection online that are still metal and can only be purchased online (According to the my 4 local stores) and are metal or plasic/metal, such as broad sides, would be rendered useless?

-Loki- wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Or are you mistaken and what was told was actually 'can't use Forgeworld specific models/rules in standard games in store' in which case, don't really see the problem as it's a fairly common rule.

If I challenge someone to 40k, I'd be a bit peevish about them showing up with a titan or superheavy unless agreed prior.

I bet you wouldn't be peevish if you faced someone using a Sentinel Powerlifter though. Most Forgeworld units are extremely underwhelming. Not to mention the situation you describe is cheating, because super heavies can't be used in normal games anyway.

Well, situation I observed for your delectation.

This occurred between two men in their late 20s. Let's call them Ross and That Guy.

Ross had not played 40k in years, he was a fantasy player returning to 40k with his Black Templars and That Guy had arranged to give him a game. They set up in a corner away from the rest of the store and it was only on wandering over I discovered that That Guy had brought along a tank army (armoured company?) from one of the Imperial Armour books or something, so it consisted of a vanquisher, manticores, hydras, leman russ variants and valks or vultures with punisher cannons. Ross had a mostly infantry army with a landspeeder, a pred and a dred along for the fun.

That Guy had assured Ross that his army was entirely legal in standard 40k games and that it was part of the 'special rules' for his tank/armour army to play a long table instead of a wide table, so they were setting up at either end.
I asked That Guy how he intended to win when 2 of the 3 missions require troops holding objectives or territory and he assured me that his forgeworld armoured army can hold objectives with it's vehicles as part of the rules.

I humbly suggested that they go back to playing width ways, that they play pitched battle as he could not hold objectives with his vehicles and that next time, it might be a cordial thing to bring a standard 40k army to a game against someone with no recent game experience. That Guy seemed a bit disappointed but it did make for a far closer game and if Ross had not suffered from poor dice, he might have won.

The moral of the story is that if the GW rule is aimed at the Rules for forgeworld models and the nasty surprises they can wrongfoot folks with, then I get it. But an actual ban on Forgeworld products, the sales of which affect the store employees wages, is daft and should be taken on and confronted.

ZatGuy wrote:If I make no progress, I'd wait till I had a large "shopping list" of things I want to buy. I make the employee aware that I want to buy these things but after I have a game with some of my FW stuff (if only I had any Q_Q ) in the store. Put the store between a rock and a hard place of their own making.

insaniak raises a good point.

You should buy these items and then try to play a game with your FW items. If they refuse to let you play, inform them that you would like to return all of the models you just bought.

insaniak wrote:

ZatGuy wrote:If I make no progress, I'd wait till I had a large "shopping list" of things I want to buy. I make the employee aware that I want to buy these things but after I have a game with some of my FW stuff (if only I had any Q_Q ) in the store. Put the store between a rock and a hard place of their own making.

If they're serious about their 'no FW' policy, they're not even going to hesitate in assuming that you're just trying to rabble rouse and have no actual intention of buying anything anyway.

This sort of thing sounds clever on the internet, but wouldn't go over as well in real life as you might think.

Ohh, but if it's like my FLGS they'd know me well (or at least of me) and likely have a order or two in the pipe at the time. I would have went in several time with a shopping list of several hundred dollars at one time and if I wait a month or so (this is where I'm starting a new army) I'd have such a list again and they'd know I'm seriously looking to buy everything on that list. So it boils down to "Do I buy it from your store or do I buy it from not your store."

Then again if it was the West Edmonton Mall (largest, or second largest in the world, where I bought my balrog) ) GW store my plan wouldn't work so well....

-edit- biccat makes a good point

MeanGreenStompa wrote:*The Ross Story*

Man, that actually happened to me after I decided to try 40k. Bought a Tau force, mostly infantry and 2 Devilfish (I loved the look of them). Asking for 40k, got paired up with a guy, said he played Imperial Guard.

I thought cool, we'll both have infantry and a few tanks.

Out comes a full armoured company, zero infantry. I asked how he managed that (I owned the IG book at the time as a friend gifted it to me). He handed over some printed Forgeworld army list called Armoured Company. I was a bit nonplussed, but decided to give it a go anyway.

Then the two Fighters* that the IG have came out too. At that point I was a bit annoyed.

*Lightning and a Thunderbolt