Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

A model with Slow and Purposeful counts as moving through difficult terrain, and therefor rolls 2 D6 and picks the highest. If the model also has Move Through Cover special rule does he roll 3 D6 all the time or is it only when actually moving through difficult terrain.

Thanks

Edit: Wrote FNP even though thinking of Slow and Purposeful.

Do you mean Slow and Purposeful?

And yes, they would get the 3d6.

Hm, I think I disagree, Monster Rain. S&P counts as difficult terrain, but isn't actually difficult terrain, which is what Move Through Cover applies itself to.

"...when rolling to move through difficult terrain" (BGB p.75)

If something counts as something else, all applicable rules apply.

In the case of S&P, they roll as if they were moving through difficult terrain regardless of what terrain they are actually in.

so if they have move through cover they roll 3D6 and pick the highest, because all terrain counts as difficult terrain for them.

what if I've got Ghazz (who has SNP and is an IC with MTC) attached to a regular unit of boyz. the entire unit moves at the slowest speed, which would be 3d6 ? unless they're ACTUALLY moving through terrain, then it'd be 2d6 ?

Except you need to read the MTC USR, note it has a "*", and read what that means.

The boyz dont have MTC, meaning the IC loses it.

@DeathReaper: Hey, I remember something similar from not too long ago...

Night's Blood wrote: His rules, specifically those that outline the shape, are completely in line with the marker created by GW. Hence, the speculation.
Again, you are adding rules that do not exist. You do not ignore the WWP as it counts as impassible terrain, meaning, it has a tangible footprint in the game itself.
The rules only state the diameter of the WWP, and nothing else, and since the GW model makes it clear that the WWP should indeed have height, it proves the WWP does indeed block LOS.

DeathReaper wrote (in response): The WWP does not block LoS, its a marker to denote the spot where units can come in from reserves.

Here, I'm sure you will agree, there isn't even a marker to debate about, just a simple abstracted concept known as a move. I'm sure that you'll also agree that an abstract concept is even less of a model than a "marker" was. Glad to know that's settled, then.

(not attempting to necro, merely pointing out an inconsistency in DR's position)

What are you talking about?

The S&P rules are very different than the WWP rules, there are no similarities between them.

No inconsistency because the two rules are very different from one another.

I was referring to your "counts as" argument, which I tried to make clear. I apologize if I wasn't. You said "all applicable rules apply." I was wondering, then, why you use this reasoning in one case but not another.

Because the rule for WWP is vastly different, and does not mention "Counts As" at all as far as the model is concerned, IIRC.

only for the blast marker or similar marker.

Back to the OPs question, yes, they get 3d6.

They'd get 2D6 for movement. IC MTC requires the squad to have it and they don't so its suppressed while the ic is in a squad of boyz

This is why most people kick Ghazzy out of the bus to go get his own lunch

DeathReaper wrote:Because the rule for WWP is vastly different, and does not mention "Counts As" at all as far as the model is concerned, IIRC.

only for the blast marker or similar marker.

You recall incorrectly. I still say it is 2d6 in this case, as there is no actual terrain to be moved through. It's similar to counter-attack. You get a bonus attack for charging, but you didn't actually charge, so you don't get other charge bonuses.

Kitzz wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:Because the rule for WWP is vastly different, and does not mention "Counts As" at all as far as the model is concerned, IIRC.

only for the blast marker or similar marker.

You recall incorrectly. I still say it is 2d6 in this case, as there is no actual terrain to be moved through. It's similar to counter-attack. You get a bonus attack for charging, but you didn't actually charge, so you don't get other charge bonuses.

But counter attack makes those differnces very clear in its description. No such distictins are given for move through cover or slow and purposeful so i'd say SNP should be treated ike difficult terrain unless an ex eption is given and they get 3d6

Solo, ghaz will roll 3d6

In a unit without move through cover, the unit rolls 2d6 always since it moves at the speed of the slowest unit.

In a unit of kommandos, ghaz would roll 3d6, since the unit has move through cover.

So in short, yes Move through cover and SNP is 3d6, just remember you always move at the slowest speed in the unit.

Kitzz wrote:You recall incorrectly. I still say it is 2d6 in this case, as there is no actual terrain to be moved through. It's similar to counter-attack. You get a bonus attack for charging, but you didn't actually charge, so you don't get other charge bonuses.

No, The WWPdoes not mention the model at all, just the small blast marker or similar.

Back on topic: As for the underlined above, There is actual terrain to be moved through, its called clear terrain. P.13 details the three types of terrain, there is clear, difficult and impassible.

It says clear terrain generally covers most of the battlefield.

Sorry I left room for your straw man. Yes, there is technically "Clear Terrain" there. But there still isn't any Difficult Terrain. And again, you are not focusing on my argument. My point had nothing to do with whether or not the WWP was a model or not, it had to do with the fact that you were selectively choosing what "counts as" applied to in different situations. In this thread you said it applied in all relevant cases, whereas in the other it was limited based on some distinction having to do with markers not being models. I was pointing out that abstract concepts like "moves" are even less of a model than a marker is.

If you have a relevant point or distinction to make in regards to the reason you treat the situations differently, please let me know. I don't enjoy having to type extra words simply because you are making silly arguments.

Kitzz wrote:Sorry I left room for your straw man. Yes, there is technically "Clear Terrain" there. But there still isn't any Difficult Terrain...

Straw man? How exactly did I misrepresent your position?

First off, I am not treating the situations differently.

You count the Blast marker or similar as Impassible terrain, All rules for impassible terrain apply to the blast marker for the WWP. all applicable rules apply.

As for this situation:

No technically about it. There are 3 types of terrain, they are listed on that page 13. Clear terrain is terrain.

A model with S&P always counts as moving through difficult terrain, so if he has Move through cover he rolls 3d6 because he is always counted as if he is in difficult terrain, even if he is in clear terrain.

Deathreaper wrote:A model with S&P always counts as moving through difficult terrain, so if he has Move through cover he rolls 3d6 because he is always counted as if he is in difficult terrain, even if he is in clear terrain.

This is completely and utterly correct.,and I don't see what the problem is.

juraigamer wrote:Solo, ghaz will roll 3d6

In a unit without move through cover, the unit rolls 2d6 always since it moves at the speed of the slowest unit.

In a unit of kommandos, ghaz would roll 3d6, since the unit has move through cover.

So in short, yes Move through cover and SNP is 3d6, just remember you always move at the slowest speed in the unit.

Maybe I'm overlooking something totally obvious, but ghaz doesn't have move through cover, does he?

All Independent Characters have move through cover.

If he is an IC, then he does, as all IC's have move through cover.

He also has skilled rider,not that it matters for him.

Oh wow. I didn't know that. Thanks

juraigamer wrote:Solo, ghaz will roll 3d6

In a unit without move through cover, the unit rolls 2d6 always since it moves at the speed of the slowest unit.

In a unit of kommandos, ghaz would roll 3d6, since the unit has move through cover.

So in short, yes Move through cover and SNP is 3d6, just remember you always move at the slowest speed in the unit.

so thinking of your last line there. If you roll your 3d6 and get say 3 6's, would graz still slow the unit down to moving only 4 inches?

No,that is crazy!Where in nine hells did you get that idea?The unit moves ast the speed of the slowest modal.If the slowest modal has to move 3" then the unit can move 3".If Ghraz was to roll 6,then he would make the unit move at 6".

Deadshot wrote:No,that is crazy!Where in nine hells did you get that idea?The unit moves ast the speed of the slowest modal.If the slowest modal has to move 3" then the unit can move 3".If Ghraz was to roll 6,then he would make the unit move at 6".

i'm new to the game. This is what happens when I post before finishing my coffee thanks for pointing out my error.

Sorry about going crazy.Stupid Mum......

All IC's have move through cover 3D6. Ghazghull has Slow and Purposeful 2D6. He will always be SNP no matter what terrain he is traveling through, so 2D6 is his speed at all times and all terrains.