Thinking of starting Eldar - 750 points

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**AlexHeap**

Hey guys I've been thinking about starting an Eldar army recently so though I'd come up with a 750 point list that I can purchase/build towards.

Here's the list I've got at the moment:

Farseer - Doom, Singing Spear - 83pts

Dire Avengers x10 - Exarch - Twin Catapults, Bladestorm - 252pts
Waveserpent - TL Shuriken Cannons

Dire Avengers x 5 - 60pts
Falcon - Holo Fields, EML - 170pts

Warwalkers x 3(Squadron) - Dual Scatter Lasers - 180pts

Total: 745 pts

I've not bought any of this or play-tested it at all so this is all just on paper at the moment. The plan however was for the Warwalkers to outflank with the Farseer joining the large unit of Dire Avengers in the Waveserpent. The small unit of Dire Avengers will be in the Falcon to make it scoring which will sit on a backfield objective to fire away with all its weapons.

Any C & C or tactical advice would be greatly appreciated as I've played 0 games with Eldar but do want to get started with them soon.

**xlEternitylx**

Just a quick thought - The Farseer, because he is not in a council or on a bike, would be better suited to have Doom, Spirit stones, and guide. Plop the seer next to the Warwalkers in your back rank (preferably in cover) and guide the walkers - doom anyone who gets too close.

My first thoughts.

**AlexHeap**

and the extra 40 points to upgrade the Farseer would come from?

**Lt. Coldfire**

Agreed. I know your original plan is to send the farseer with the bladestormed DA's, but I think he'd be better off hanging back in the falcon and guiding the warwalkers.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just give him guide, no spirit stones or doom. That's getting too costly for a single HQ at 750 points.

**xlEternitylx**

Okay, just guide. But 40 points could easily come from shrinking the DA squad #1.

But still, 3x Walkers Guided just sucks for an opponent.

**Grakmar**

I agree with the Guide-seer. Leave him in back with the Falcon and Guide either the War Walkers, or the Falcon if the Walkers take too much damage.

I'd also like to see that DA squad maxed out to 10 models. With switching to Guide, you can drop the dual-catapults to get the extra body in there. It's not a big difference, but having the extra body is worth it.

**beltenebros**

xlEternitylx wrote:But still, 3x Walkers Guided just sucks for an opponent.

This.

I run a Mech list and can't stress enough the value of 3x WarWalker with 2x Scatter Lasers each. 24 str6 shots is insane, plus the ability to 'outflank' to get at the side/rear armour. if you put a farseer guiding them, it's deadly.

You'll hear conflicting info anywhere, but my experience - Falcon w/Holofield and EML is a fantastic HVY choice. It'll attract a lot of attention and absorb a lot of fire - and keep on going. Remember you can use the EML plasma as a defensive weapon ...

Also, I love my Dire Avengers. But I run them raw.

I like your list! My suggested changes:

Farseer with Guide/RoWarding/Singing Spear - 93pts

10 DA in Serpent w/ TL Scatter Lasers - 235pts

6 DA in Falcon w/ Holofield/EML/SpiritStones - 240pts

3 WarWalker w/2xScatter Lasers each - 180pts

Total: 748pts

**AlexHeap**

So what do I do about capturing other objectives? Without Doom the Bladestorm from the DA squad is a lot less effective. How am I supposed to deal with AV 12 Vehicles parked on objectives?

My original plan was to have the Warwalkers outflank to be able to get rear shots on any vehicles which combined with the Falcon should be able to deal with most tanks at 750.( If they're just sat in my back lines they're needing 6's just to glance AV12 and I wouldn't be able to do anything if someone brings a Predator bar using the Falcon.)

Then the Avengers combined with the Farseers Doom can bladestorm any infantry.

I admit that I've not played Eldar at all so all of this is just in my mind but some more indepth replies would be greatly appreciated.

**xlEternitylx**

AV 12 is toast when you are pumping out so many scatter laser shots that are TL. So move the Walkers within 36" of the parked objective, and open fire. From there, more scatter lasers and EML into any remaining troops. For AV14, like a LRBT, get rear shots with the speed of the Falcon. For AV14 all round, like LR/LRR/LRC, you only really have the singing spear. But if someone is packing a 250pt model in 750pt list, they will lack elsewhere. So avoid the AV14-allround, and deal with everything else. Bear in mind that a mega-tank like that can only hold/contest one objective.

**AlexHeap**

I hardly think AV12 is "toast"

24 Scatter Laser shots = 12hits from BS3 then another 6 from Guides re-rolls which = 3 glancing hits

So that's great if I'm wanting to stun lock it so it can't shoot me. But if the things parked on an objective that's really no use at all and this isn't even taking into account any cover saves the vehicle could have.

**Lt. Coldfire**

You can guide the Falcon when the need for taking out AV12 arrives. I would also recommend putting an EML on the falcon.

**AlexHeap**

There already is an EML on the Falcon

**xlEternitylx**

My bad, I meant AV 11. I was thinking rhinos and the like...fail.

**AlexHeap**

It's alright lol

Against Rhinos, Razorbacks etc it would be doable it's just AV12 is a big obstacle. Which is why I was wanting to outflank the Warwalkers as then all those shots are hitting rear armour 10 which even without guide is 2 glances and 4 pens.

The Dire Avengers can then mop up whats inside with a doom assisted Bladestorm along with Scatter Laser Fire from their Waveserpent. The Farseer can even attempt to pop another nearby transport with the Singing Spear if necessary.

While this is all going on the Falcon can be sat on an objective pumping out Pulse Lasers and EML at other targets while also taking less fire itself as there are lots of more immediate threats for the opponent to deal with.

Then even if the other forces can't remove my opponent from his objective or all get destroyed the Falcon can drop of the Avengers and Flat out to contest something on the last turn.

I don't mean to just dismiss everyone's suggestion infact they're all very much appreciated. It's just my local meta is very competitive so I've though about how I'd use this army quite a lot and would need some compelling explanations why a certain way of doing things is better before I make any drastic changes.

**beltenebros**

AV12 isn't a big prob with TL Pulse Laser/EML from Falcon. Put Farseer in it and you can guide it. Outflank the WarWalkers and hit the side/rear armour.

At 750 you're only going to see 1x AV12 or 1x AV14. The alternative would be to find room to add Fire Dragons.

So put 5 DA with Farseer in Falcon (this is how I run it, actually).

IMO Bladestorm is a waste. 10 DA's put out 40 shots in 2 turns. With Bladestorm it's 30 shots in 2 turns...

**AlexHeap**

Finally someone who agrees about outflanking the Warwalkers

Not sure I agree about the only 1 x AV12 at 750. One of my friends who plays guard runs 3 x Vets in Chimeras, 1 x CCS in Chimera and a Vendetta or LRBT at 750.

I do however totally agree with you about Bladestorm not being amazing which is exactly why I think the squad they're going to be shooting at needs the Farseer to Doom them. The DA's aren't going to have 2 turns of shooting they're going to get out of their Serpent and then fire at something that's either been dislodged from it's transport or wasn't in one to start with. They need to do as much damage as possible at that one moment as I imagine they'll get a lot of return fire from the rest the enemy and even if they don't next turn they'll be jumping back in the Serpent to go somewhere else.

**AnomanderRake**

Bladestorm isn't the most brilliant thing ever devised, but if you're going to be charging or hopping in a transport it does allow you to put down a lot of fire.

As for the list, I think it looks pretty good; seems a bit focused on firepower over CC but that could be easily rectified as the army grows.

**Lt. Coldfire**

AlexHeap wrote:There already is an EML on the Falcon

Oops.
Well, all things considered, how about you try out a doomseer with the DA's for a while and then try a guidseer in the falcon. It's not really changing the list other than changing up psychic powers. Might as well try them both, amirite?

**AlexHeap**

Well that sounds fair enough. Guess I'll have to go out and buy the models now then

**beltenebros**

AlexHeap wrote:Well that sounds fair enough. Guess I'll have to go out and buy the models now then

Let us know how it works out! I'd be interested to see how the Bladestorm works - as I said I run straight DA's - no exarch - and cram as many serpents in for the points as possible.

And I always outflank my War Walkers

**akaean**

War Walkers are pretty great, and I cannot deny the effectiveness of scatter lasers.

However, scatter lasers- for the most part- work best in your own backfield, providing as much fire support for as long as they can.

Outflanking is risky- as you aren't sure entirely when and where they will come in. They could arrive turn 2 in a flurry of laser shots, or they could wander in on turn 4 on the opposite side of the board from any meaningful conflict.

In light of this, I would recommend the humble shuriken cannon for your war walkers if you are heart set on outflanking. A shuri walker costs a mere 40 points- which makes it easier to play fast and loose with them while outflanking. pump those cannon shots into rear armor, or charge a fire support squad to silence their guns. Whatever is more strategically important to accomplish in your opponent's back field.

The low cost also keeps them at a relatively low point investment- meaning that you are at a less severe disadvantage if the reserve gods are frowning upon you.

I'd also recommend spreading out war walkers throughout every available heavy support slot- if you can. Sure, guide is most effective on a squad of 3, but there is a lot to be said for being able to shoot at 2 different targets per turn! for 160 points you could get 2 squads of 2 shuri cannon war walkers. This separates your eggs into more than one basket (it also increases your odds of getting at least one of the squads on the second turn up to 75%), and it lets you shoot at 2 different targets with the same number of shots for 20 points less. You lose out on range and offer an additional kill point- but since you want to outflank the range won't matter as much, and the extra kill point is a very fair trade off for being able to target two separate targets- especially at low point games.

**AlexHeap**

I must admit I do like the sound of the 2 squads of 2 warwalkers with cannons instead of scatter lasers it would also allow me to add the 1 extra Dire Avenger back to the bigger squad.

However, as it is, the main selling point for me concerning the scatter lasers is the added range. As you said they could come in on a side of the board with no conflict but the extra range helps to alleviate this. Another big problem with warwalkers is that they can be assaulted and tied up very easily the added range helps to stop this aswell.

Then there's also the problem that I'd probably never use 4 Warwalkers in any points level other than this one. Buying another one just wouldn't make sense financially

**beltenebros**

My list has an autarch, adding +1 to reserve rolls = 3+ on turn 2 or 2+ on turn 3. And the 36" range on scatter lasers allows them not only to compensate for coming in on potentially the opposite end of the conflict, but also to quickly engage the next target after obliterating their primary target.

But I do appreciate the idea of being able to choose two targets and the reduction in points spent.

**AlexHeap**

I quite like the sound of an autarch if only to increase the likelihood of an alpha strike if everything is held in reserve. I may have to look into one when the army expands.

On the topic of Shuriken Cannon vs Scatter Lasers I've just had a thought that if I swap the scatter lasers on the wave serpent to shuriken cannons I can add the remaining member to the large Dire Avenger squad. The army then comes in at 745 pts. Thoughts?

**akaean**

Autarchs are quite bad ass. They really help with reserves when that goes down. However as you noticed they are really only useful in larger point games where Master Strategist can effect a large number of models. As an individual model... the Autarch is fairly underwhelming- even for his cost.

As for Shuri Cannon / Scatter Laser- I tend to go shuri cannons for low point games and scatter lasers for high point games. The reason being is that my list "strategy" is to cram as much fire power as I can into a list, and shuri cannons are so dirt cheap it really helps me increase the numbers in my army. Also having more units with a similar number of shots helps you avoid over killing things, as if the first volley destroys the tank, then the other guns can focus on other targets on the priority list- and in low point games that can be crippling for an opponent.

I don't have a 750 pt list right now, but I did play a few 500 point games last week, and can remember that list- so

Farseer- Doom, Spear
10 Storm Guardians- 2 flamers
Wave Serpent- tl shuri cannon, underslung shuri cannon
3 Gu Bikes + Warlock- cannon, spear, destructor
War Walker- 2x shuri cannon
War Walker- 2x shuri cannon

thats 21 s6 shots and 3 flame templates and (effectively) one spear, at 500 points

As games get bigger and more stuff can be put on the table by both sides, then the extra range afforded by scatter lasers and missiles begins to outshine the cheapness of the shuri cannon, however I would put that mark at around the 1000 point level. Granted the need for heavy weapons is even more exaggerated in a 500 point game, but 750 really isn't that different.

EDIT: ofc, if you find yourself in a position where you have 15 or so points left over and can't possibly fit in another unit- then by all means upgrade some heavy weapons

**beltenebros**

In my 1500 list I run squads of Fire Dragons in Serpents with Shuri Cannons (I throw an Autarch with Fusion Gun in one of them). My DA Serpents get Scatter Lasers, as do my War Walker squadrons.

Use scatter lasers where/when you need the added range, save the points with shuri-cannons when you don't!