Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alrighty, so here's the deal...I've been going back and forth between Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Imperial Guard lately as my armies and well...I'm tired of the Imperium and really tired of being called cheesy...so with that said, I'm looking to borrow my buddies Tau army to give myself a challenge as well as switch things up for myself. With that said, the list is below:

H.Q.

Commander Shas'o
Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Hard Wired Multi-Tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller, Shield Generator, 2x Shield Drones -162

Crisis Bodyguard 2x
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -164

Elites

3x Crisis Battlesuit
Team Leader: Missile Pod, Twin Linked Plasma Rifle, Hard Wired Mult-tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Battlesuits: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -231

3x Crisis Battlesuit
Team Leader: Missile Pod, Twin Linked Plasma Rifle, Hard Wired Mult-tracker, Hard Wired Drone Controller, 2x Shield Drones, Battlesuits: Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -231

Troops

Kroot 10x -70

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods -145

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods -145

Heavy Support

Hammerhead
Railgun, Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Target Lock -170

Hammerhead
Railgun, Smart Missile System, Disruption Pod, Target Lock -170

Total: 1488

So there's no way to improve this list?

Drop the shield generator on the Shas'O, bring him down to a Shas'el with Targetting Array instead... far more efficient that way

Bodyguards are BAD. Get a bit tired of saying this but fill out your elites with XV8s before you consider taking them in the HQ slots.

Not sure why you went twin-linked on the Crisis team-leader suits, I'd personally just keep them as a normal plasma... saves some reasonable points that way, and not much less efficient.

Hammerheads... for efficiency I'd say drop the SMS to burst cannons (more shots, if you use them) and drop the target locks. Multi-trackers are king on Hammerheads


Not a bad first effort, though, all things considered.

With Crisis suits you can go about it in three ways. One would be bodyguards with targeting arrays. That way suits have BS4 and can operate on their own. Second, would be to have them all in elite slot and use markerlight support to increase their BS. Third, would be to have mono weapon twinlinked suits which have proved to be far more accurate and killy according to mathhammer but definitely have some interesting tactics to them. Multi-Tracker is a must on vehicles. Lets them shoot like a fast vehicle unless you aren't thinking about moving up to 12 inches and shooting everything per turn then thats cool too.

Honestly it would be smarter to put SMS on devilfish. Makes them fish of fury and can be put to better use. Its not optimal if a hammerhead is close enough to use those SMS unless you're going for a tank wall in which case all vehicles need SMS.

Shield gens are generally too expensive.

Kroot just seem there? Seems like you want to go mech. It'd probably be better if you could squeeze another fish in there instead of kroot or some heavy/elite unit.

Several things here:

1. 10 Kroots is a waste, go big or go home (get at least 15 models into the squad, be they all kroot, or kroot and hounds)

2. Ditch the Shas'o and use a Shas'el with Targetting Array. You can also loose the shield gen (because you'd use it vs things that if they got through would kill you instantly anyways, better to take Shield Drones if paranoid about getting hit)

3. Drop the Body Guard to regular crisis suits or a stealth team of some kinds

4. TL Plasma is neither here nor there. Not horrid, not great. Worth a try anyways

5. Ditch the SMS on the Hammerheads, and they MUST come with Multi Trackers. No Multi Tracker means a worthless Hammerhead.

6. Get some Broadsides if you can. At 1500, two railguns won't cut it for you. The Hammerheads are fairly decent tanks, but you'll need the broadsides just to pop transports

You overupgraded your HQ for sure. Shield gens AND shield drones AND bodyguards. Tau don't do deathstar well. Trim that down and spread your points out.

Otherwise, most of what I would change is just a matter of taste. I prefer my suits much cheaper than that, I prefer larger squads of fire warriors and I prefer broadsides, but I've seen very good players do things the way you've got them, so I can't say it's bad.

ceku wrote:With Crisis suits you can go about it in three ways. One would be bodyguards with targeting arrays. That way suits have BS4 and can operate on their own. Second, would be to have them all in elite slot and use markerlight support to increase their BS. Third, would be to have mono weapon twinlinked suits which have proved to be far more accurate and killy according to mathhammer but definitely have some interesting tactics to them.

This gets on my nerves a bit, I'll be honest Crisis bodyguards aren't worth it, really, and you don't need BS4... the equivalent points in BS3 suits is just as efficient, but has more wounds, so it takes more to kill them.

Multi-Tracker is a must on vehicles. Lets them shoot like a fast vehicle unless you aren't thinking about moving up to 12 inches and shooting everything per turn then thats cool too.

Never seen a Tau army the took multi-trackers on everything, tbh =\ no need for a basic devilfish to shoot like a fast vehicle, really

Honestly it would be smarter to put SMS on devilfish. Makes them fish of fury and can be put to better use. Its not optimal if a hammerhead is close enough to use those SMS unless you're going for a tank wall in which case all vehicles need SMS.

That would be a warfish, actually

I appreciate all of the feedback and ideas...here's V2.0 with a few clarifications:

H.Q.

Shas'el
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hard Wired Drone Controller, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, Shield Generator, 2x Shield Drone -137

Elites

3x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -186

3x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -186

3x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -186

Troops

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Heavy Support

Hammerhead
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker, Target Lock -170

Hammerhead
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker, Target Lock -170

Total: 1500

I threw the shield generator on the commander because I had 20 points that needed to find a home...I have a feeling someone will find a better place for them. I went with 3 Crisis teams; however, I have a feeling I could afford to drop one of those teams in favor of 2-3 Broadsides for some more Long Range Support. Put Multi-trackers on all of the Vehicles as Speed is about the only thing that's going to keep these fish flying.

So what does everyone think now?

The other option:

H.Q.

Shas'el
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hard Wired Drone Controller, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, 2x Shield Drone -117

Elites

3x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -186

3x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -186

Troops

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Heavy Support

Hammerhead
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker, Target Lock -170

Hammerhead
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker, Target Lock -170

Broadsides 2x
Leader: Hard Wire Target Lock, Hard Wire Drone Controller, Targeting Array, 2x Shield Drones, Targeting Array (for 2nd Broadside) -200

Total: 1494

That 'el neeeeeds a targetting array. BS5 is fun

Second v2 list there looks pretty nicely competitive, I'd say split your Crisis into 3x 2 man squads though. More flexibility that way. And really, you don't need target locks on the Hammerheads in most situations likelihood is you wont need the burst cannons anyway...

Also, Targeting Arrays on the broadsides? They're twin-linked already, an A.S.S. is more useful I find.

Other than that, both of those look like they could hold their own against most... but if you have broadsides THEN taking kroot is a good idea, they make a wonderful shield for your precious, slow moving, high-priority battlesuits

Completely looked over the A.S.S. when I was putting the options in for Army Builder.

I can see the Kroot Bubble Wrap being necessary for the slow big guns; however, I feel I'll lose some fluidity with the rest of the army.

Going to 3x2 sounds like a plan for the crisis suits as it will get more shots out at more targets which is always a plus.

BS5 is just silly...if I had the 10 points to spare, I would do it.

Beregond basically said everything I was gonna at every point in this forum. Go with his advice



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, If you drop a crisis suit from your 2nd list and didn't bother with a leader in the broadside squad, you could add another broadside: far more effective than a leader firing somewhere else and a crisis suit. You get a 4+ cover save (infantry) so 2 drones would be unnecessary. A kroot assault-blocker would also be nice.

4+ Cover is not always a given and with how pricey those bad boys are, I don't want a pair of Lascannons ruining my day. Losing a drone or two is much better than chancing a Broadside or two just to have 1 extra railgun and missile system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So here is the latest revised list:

H.Q.

Shas'el
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Hard Wired Drone Controller, Hard Wired Multi-tracker, 2x Shield Drone -117

Elites

2x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -124

2x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -124

2x Crisis Battlesuits
Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi-tracker -124

Troops

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Fire Warriors 6x
Devilfish: Disruption Pods, Multi-Tracker -155

Heavy Support

Hammerhead
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker, Target Lock -170

Hammerhead
Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker, Target Lock -170

Broadsides 2x
Leader: Hard Wire Target Lock, Hard Wire Drone Controller, Advanced Stabilization System, 2x Shield Drones, Advanced Stabilization System (for 2nd Broadside) -200

Total: 1494

Beregond wrote:

ceku wrote:With Crisis suits you can go about it in three ways. One would be bodyguards with targeting arrays. That way suits have BS4 and can operate on their own. Second, would be to have them all in elite slot and use markerlight support to increase their BS. Third, would be to have mono weapon twinlinked suits which have proved to be far more accurate and killy according to mathhammer but definitely have some interesting tactics to them.

This gets on my nerves a bit, I'll be honest Crisis bodyguards aren't worth it, really, and you don't need BS4... the equivalent points in BS3 suits is just as efficient, but has more wounds, so it takes more to kill them.

Multi-Tracker is a must on vehicles. Lets them shoot like a fast vehicle unless you aren't thinking about moving up to 12 inches and shooting everything per turn then thats cool too.

Never seen a Tau army the took multi-trackers on everything, tbh =\ no need for a basic devilfish to shoot like a fast vehicle, really

Honestly it would be smarter to put SMS on devilfish. Makes them fish of fury and can be put to better use. Its not optimal if a hammerhead is close enough to use those SMS unless you're going for a tank wall in which case all vehicles need SMS.

That would be a warfish, actually

Someones been proofreading my writing =O.

Before you commit to 9 Fireknife suits, I would read the math hammer in my forum sig.

I spent a lot of time, and a lot of effort on it, and I think it's top notch.

Personally, I think the ideal take all comers elite slot loadout is 3x Bladestorms, 3x Fireknives, 3x Deathrains.

YMMV, but I was still doing well, at the tournament level, with my Tau, right up until they got stolen.

You could ditch the target locks on the HHs, drop the Shield Drones to Gun Drones if you want the ablative anti las cannon stuff, that nets you 30 points

Take a bonding knife on the 'el and a bonding knife on the broadsides.

Gives you 10 points to play with. Alternatively, just keep the SD's on the commander and stick a bonding knife on him and the broadside team. Very useful once you start getting shot to pieces (no point having them run away when shot up bad for a 10 point investment).

@Cottonjaw

I see your math is pretty strong; however, have you considered which set up is better for popping/silencing vehicles? I ask that because part of the design here is to be able to slow down/stop razorspam and venom spam armies. These types of armies are highly prevalent in my area and I'd be curious to see which of the aforementioned suit load-outs is more proficient in this regard.

@Maniac

Gun Drones don't really do me any good if I'm in the open and start taking Lascannon shots other than absorbing 2 shots...many armies I see come packing with 6-8 at this point level.

Bonding knives seem like a keen investment; however, making cuts in the suggested areas I worry would do too much to detract from the other units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nevermind, went further along in the thread and say that at range the deathrains seem to handle av10-11 better than the other set-ups.

If even a tiny part of the foot of a broadside is behind cover then it gets cover. Don't worry about that. Get gun drones rather than shield drones and they get a 4+ save anyway.
Also, I still say that the team leader doesn't need the target lock: 1 broadside is far less likely to take out heavy vehicals than 2 so they may as well aim at the same one (the crisis suits can handle any light vehicals). Target locks shouldn't be necessary on the hammerheads, so drop them and you've got 25pts to play with. Lose the multi-trackers on the devilfish (they're transports, you've got other stuff for shooting with) and it's 40pts to play with, which would get you 4 fire warriors (not to be sniffed at) or the makings of a small pathfinder team (if you give them one of the devilfish and plonk your fire warriors in it first turn). That's pretty much getting 4 markerlights for free, which will help your broadsides or Crisis suits no end.

Valid points...that are worth considering, especially the Pathfinders as Markerlights make a world of difference for both you and your opponent.

Also, with the pathfinders it makes it all the safer if you decide to deep strike crisis suits for any reason

So, played against Unholy Martyr and his most revised Tau list. My orks got the best of him, but that's not to say that we weren't worried for a few moments. Lots of plasma and missile and smart missiles had me scared. A good game, as per the usual, but in the end sheer ork brute strength beat the greater good. I also watched him play a game against the new revised White Dwarf sisters of battle. I know Sisters won that game, but I am not sure how close it was. Fairly sure it was within 1-2 kill point difference. Good army list, a few tweaks here and there and it could be fairly nasty.

Also, with the pathfinders it makes it all the safer if you decide to deep strike crisis suits for any reason

I agree with this also because you don't have any marker lights and I think they are essential in any tau army. Either that or you should find a way to give some of your fire warriors marker lights for less points than taking pathfinders. My army at 2000 points had what like 7 marker lights per turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beregond wrote: Bodyguards are BAD. Get a bit tired of saying this but fill out your elites with XV8s before you consider taking them in the HQ slots.

Hahahah. You told me that too on one of my other posts.

So last night's games was a real eye opener to begin with and I learned that I have to get used to not having an Imperial Army. With that said, here are some observations:

1) Assault Moves are beyond critical. Because I forgot of the jump back move, I let several Crisis suit teams get assaulted when they shouldn't have...this cost me both games.

2) Pulse Rifles have a 30" range...I could have had my Fire Warriors out the first turn gunning down Sisters and Orks alike.

3) Everything is a fast Vehicle for all intents and purposes...sure it can't go flat out but I can still shoot!

4) Shield Drones are Priceless when S8 weapons cover the field.

All in all, I think I made more tactical mistakes than anything else. I will be testing this list again as is on Wednesday; however, I will test another variant where all of the Shield Drones are replaced for Marker Lights on the Fire Warriors on that day as well to see how much of a difference there is.

Yeah, the crisis suits would have survived a good bit longer had they continued to blast me and run away. Hell, the HQ and 2 crisis suit squads were giving my Nobs serious problems. Granted they were whittling them down, but it was working.

Also like I said the other day, you deployed your army the exact same way you do your space wolves when you rhino rush. You put long range fire support in the top of a building, all your troops in transports, which you advanced at me with, and your specialized squad on the opposite side to "pincer" me. Just remember, run and gun. Make your opponent chase you.

TheCadreofFi'rios wrote:

Beregond wrote: Bodyguards are BAD. Get a bit tired of saying this but fill out your elites with XV8s before you consider taking them in the HQ slots.

Hahahah. You told me that too on one of my other posts.

Beregond should have this copied and just paste it as soon as he sees a topic including the words 'tau army list'.