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Ive never had a problem with this before as normally invul saves are less than normal armor (ie terminators 2+ vs thier 5+ invul), but for zoanthropes they have a 5+ normal and 2+ invul, does that mean that they can take their invul all the time? Even against things such as las-guns that normally would not require an invul to be taken?

You always take the best save possible.

You do need to reread zoanthrope though.

umm, zoanthropes have a 3+ invulnerable save. That's it. Do you have an old codex? Ive only played the current one.

They have both a 5+ regular armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save.

Yes you can use Zoanthropes 3+ invu against lascannon even if your armour save is worse. You always use the best save possible like Rented Tritium said. You can (almost) always make invulnerable save against wounds if you have one, and of course if some weapons doesn't allow invu saves, you can't use your invu save.

I thought I had the most recent codex. When was the more recent one published? I think it's dumb that there is really no incentive to use your normal save over your invul, even for weak attacks that don't break armor such as guardsman lasguns.

Billagio wrote:I thought I had the most recent codex. When was the more recent one published? I think it's dumb that there is really no incentive to use your normal save over your invul, even for weak attacks that don't break armor such as guardsman lasguns.

SoB used to have a bunch of means to get around invulnerable saves, but not any more. If i'm not mistaken, I believe Smurfs and other Marine armies have some ways around them too.

Nocturn wrote:They have both a 5+ regular armor save and a 3+ invulnerable save.

Well Ill be damned. You are correct sir. I have never had to use the "normal" save on these buggers. When would the 5+ ever get used? I think there are only a few things that take away invulns but i cant think of any right off hand.

Tagboard Wizard wrote:

Billagio wrote:I thought I had the most recent codex. When was the more recent one published? I think it's dumb that there is really no incentive to use your normal save over your invul, even for weak attacks that don't break armor such as guardsman lasguns.

SoB used to have a bunch of means to get around invulnerable saves, but not any more. If i'm not mistaken, I believe Smurfs and other Marine armies have some ways around them too.

SOB used to ignore cover a lot with holy bullets and so on.

Daemonhunters (GK last codex) Psycannons used to ignore invulnerables, as did their groovy flamers (incinerators?)

Why would you want to have an incentive to take a weapon hit on your skin, if you have a forcefield?

Billagio wrote:I thought I had the most recent codex. When was the more recent one published? I think it's dumb that there is really no incentive to use your normal save over your invul, even for weak attacks that don't break armor such as guardsman lasguns.

It would appear that they anticipate other codexes in 6th edition potentially ignoring invul saves, especially since it's technically granted by a passive psychic power and something might someday shut those down.

I think the main reason Zoeys have an armour save is that the model has a load of clearly visible armour plating.

Fluff-wise, there might be little reason for Zoeys to continue growing protective carapaces when they continuously project a better protective field, but if they went around nekkid they'd look pretty odd and non-Tyranid.

Game-wise, if a Vindicare uses a Shield-breaker round to take down your Warp Field, you'll have the armour save to fall back on. So it's not 100% useless to be one of the very rare units with a better invulnerable than your armour save. (The other common example being Cyborks without armour upgrades.)

lindsay40k wrote:I think the main reason Zoeys have an armour save is that the model has a load of clearly visible armour plating.

Fluff-wise, there might be little reason for Zoeys to continue growing protective carapaces when they continuously project a better protective field, but if they went around nekkid they'd look pretty odd and non-Tyranid.

Game-wise, if a Vindicare uses a Shield-breaker round to take down your Warp Field, you'll have the armour save to fall back on. So it's not 100% useless to be one of the very rare units with a better invulnerable than your armour save. (The other common example being Cyborks without armour upgrades.)

The Shield breaker round only negates Invulns from an item of wargear. the Zoan's would keep theirs.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Billagio wrote:I thought I had the most recent codex. When was the more recent one published? I think it's dumb that there is really no incentive to use your normal save over your invul, even for weak attacks that don't break armor such as guardsman lasguns.

It would appear that they anticipate other codexes in 6th edition potentially ignoring invul saves, especially since it's technically granted by a passive psychic power and something might someday shut those down.

No, it's that GW includes stats, even when there's probably no chance they'll ever be used. Like models that can't take guns having a BS score above 0. Maybe it's something that will never be used, but there's no reason not to have it either.

Dark Eldar Incubi are a case in point.

BS 5 IIRC, and not a ranged non-template weapon to be had

Ascalam wrote:Dark Eldar Incubi are a case in point.

BS 5 IIRC, and not a ranged non-template weapon to be had

As well as last edition Hormagaunts and Broodlords. Then again Hormagaunts still have a BS 3 with no ranged weapon options...

I just get the image of an incubi laden raider, and the kabalite gunner missing shot after shot as they speed over the terrain..

*snick..thud *

"if you want something done properly... *grumble*"

*BZORP *

Portugal Jones wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Billagio wrote:I thought I had the most recent codex. When was the more recent one published? I think it's dumb that there is really no incentive to use your normal save over your invul, even for weak attacks that don't break armor such as guardsman lasguns.

It would appear that they anticipate other codexes in 6th edition potentially ignoring invul saves, especially since it's technically granted by a passive psychic power and something might someday shut those down.

No, it's that GW includes stats, even when there's probably no chance they'll ever be used. Like models that can't take guns having a BS score above 0. Maybe it's something that will never be used, but there's no reason not to have it either.

Teeeeechnically guys with BS and no guns can often use guns mounted on scenery. This is even in the BRB, but people don't use it often.

Mainly because you don't find tooled up scenery that often

Zoanthropes have an invulnerable save only against ranged weaponry.

In CC, they use their 5+ armor save.

time wizard wrote:Zoanthropes have an invulnerable save only against ranged weaponry.

In CC, they use their 5+ armor save.

I don't have my codex with me, but I'm pretty sure Warp Field doesn't say anything like that. I could be wrong though.

time wizard wrote:Zoanthropes have an invulnerable save only against ranged weaponry.

In CC, they use their 5+ armor save.

And where do you see that rule?

Indeed, codex entry for warp field says it grants the zoey a 3+ invulnerable save. Nothing about cc or shooting.

First paragraph, "These mental shields are invisible but for a slight shimmer when small-arms and heavy-weapons alike patters harmlessly against them."

Small arms and heavy weapons are ranged attacks.

time wizard wrote:First paragraph, "These mental shields are invisible but for a slight shimmer when small-arms and heavy-weapons alike patters harmlessly against them."

Small arms and heavy weapons are ranged attacks.

That's merely a fluff description.

Unless it says something to the effect of "this save may only be used against ranged attacks", then you can use it whenever you please.

time wizard wrote:First paragraph, "These mental shields are invisible but for a slight shimmer when small-arms and heavy-weapons alike patters harmlessly against them."

Small arms and heavy weapons are ranged attacks.

That's fluff, not rules.

Okay, I stand corrected.

do you always have to take the best save?
to deny someone a charge so you can shoot/charge them on your next turn i can see saying. "im going to use the armour save"

i know i have taken the closest model to a possable assult unit many times to screw them out of their 6" assult, just so i can shoot them to peices then charget them myself

Someone with a rulebook handy back me up here but i think RAW you have to use the best save available to you.

Yes, you HAVE to take the best save.

This is done to prevent people from purposefully sandbagging combat to be able to shoot at the attacker (among other things).

Yes, you must always use the best save available, and best save is well defined in the rulebook (lowest numerical valued save)