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G'day Dakka.

I have been reading through many of Ailaros' Blood Conquer battle reports, and seen his use of blob squads and to a certain extent I notice he kind of 'snakes' his blob forward, like a tentacle, using the 'body' of guardsmen remaining in cover or at least further back. The important members of the blob, such as the power weapon sergeants, commissar, and meltagunners are the first/ish in line, in order to get first combat, and fire the meltaguns more efficiently (max possible reach).

I have a series of pictures below, showing what I mean. What I am asking is, do other people do this kind of 'snake' or 'tentacle' movement with their blobs, where really only half of the blob is advancing, and stretching out to 2" coherency along the way, while trying to maintain half of the models in cover - this could work because once assault starts, you gain a free 6" movement forward in order to 'pile in' and this occurs each round and 'sucks' the rest of your blob forward, so you snaked across the board while keeping 4+ cover, and then enter combat and your entire blob follows in the next round or two of fighting. You can remove casualties at the back too, now that you've entered combat the cover is not needed.

The effect of this also reduces the casualties caused by flamers, because you have a reasonably thin line projecting out, and threatening a large area. Flamers will only cause 3-4 hits here, instead of 7-10 from a 'squished up' blob how people might normally do it. Having to only tactically move approximately 50% of the models in the blob at any time also causes a faster movement phase, which is great when you have 100+ models in the board.

Another flow-on effect of this stretching out tactic is that you cover more ground, which prevents enemy units from passing through your models, removes 'free space' from the field for enemy Deep Strike units, and if you were to 'snake' up the side of the board, you could even cut off 50% of that side from outflankers.

Any thoughts or additions to this technique? is it even legal, or any of my comments false/outspoken? Anybody actually do this? I personally have only just started using blobs, and have not actually had the chance to test this out yet. I believe it is a highly effective tactic, and will endevour to abuse it in the future .

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/263/blob1i.jpg/

This is a hypothetical blob in deployment/first turn

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/blob2y.jpg
this is a suggested first movement. could probably move another layer forward, or skew the displacement towards one side (like, left alignment, or right alignment)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/blob3.jpg/
This is the movement after it's occured (not a perfect translation from the previous pic, but whatever)


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/blob4.jpg/
This is the snake/tentacle starting to form, but will thin out as it extends. This is the form/technique i'm getting at! See the important stuff at the front?


Please comment if you like my pictures .

Edit: wtf the image [img] tag stuff isnt working? Any hints on why?

Seems cheesy to me, but I don't see why it wouldn't be legal game-wise. But as an IG player, I tend to disagree with this particular tactic because it denies the troopers thier primary advantage: firepower.

Guardsmen, being very squishy, don't really have much going for them in terms of combat. Thier one (arguable) advantage lies in thier ability to fire inumerable shots at thier opponents in a very short span of time. Using these "blob" tactics would make it difficult for you to employ your firepower.

ALSO, it would be easier to draw you into close combat because you're basically a HUUUUUGE target. I guess if you have the points to waste, it might be useful to deny ground, but you could do more with those points, in my opinion.

I think you should read Ailaros's battle reports Darkstar2033. You may have a different opinion after.

I don't think the reports matter to tell you the truth. I really can't say I like it no matter how effective it is because, in reality, squads don't "snake" like The Blob.

If I have the choice between maintaining a sense of "realism" and exploiting game rules to win, I'll gladly lose. Which is why I play with friends and not in tournaments.

Not that I don't see the value in doing something like this, to be sure. It's just not something I would reccomend, with my experience.

EDITED FOR TYPOS

First of all there is nothing cheesy about the movement of the blob. you appear to have a different opinion but the majority of the 40k environment dont agree with your view.

i was actually commenting more on your views of blobs in combat. by reading Ailaros's battles you will see an indepth documentation disproving your theory.

you will see in this documentation that its not the firepower which is the blob's primary advantage but its ability to have hidden power weapon attacks and a unit which is stubborn.

i understand that there is more than one way to use the unit but should you read the aforementioned reports (including the post analyses) you will see the logic behind by argument.

It doesn't seem too appealing to me. I'd rather keep them together and pop off 30-40+ shots as often as I can before any CC.

Darkstar2033 wrote:

If I have the choice between maintaining a sense of "realism" and exploiting game rules to win, I'll gladly lose.

No offense, but why in the blue feth are you giving tactics advice?

People ask questions here because they want to learn how to play well, not because they want to poorly simulate actual combat.

Exactly TheMicah, one of the main reasons for blobs is hyper-resilient close combat units which win by attrition of many power weapon attacks each round, while only losing crappy 5pt guardsmen as casualties keeping the hard hitters alive. Super dangerous attacks such as enemy powerfists and thunderhammers which would usually be used to wiping out demon princes, terminators, and special characters have the same effect as a chainsword - a dead guardsman worth only 5pts each.

Another use of blobs is a gunline, where it is infused with heavy weapons and relies on orders to put out massive volumes of lasgun fire. In this case however the blob must remain static to work. This case is therefore irrelevant to the current topic where blob movement is used in order to gain multiple advantages such as those I mentioned in the OP, regarding cover, range, area denial, and the 'sucking' effect of a pile-in move.


Edit(typos): on another note, if i were to try to simulate realistic warfare I would have men spread out in a delta at max coherency, all in as much cover as possible.. But this isnt realism, this is 40k full of orks and power armour marines! The combined squad rule is very 'starship troopers' mobile infantry tactics style.. Run up as a huge mess of people and rapidfire it to death haha

sorry im still ranting to old mate.

well its not even that. it is still realistic to have your unit spread out and not clump together. you would be very foolish to do this in real life. think about it. all it would take would be a well placed machine gunner.

there is no overt exploitation of the rules here just common sense.

Now that I think about it, I might try to run 3 20 man blobs ( limited to how many models i can use presently ) and see how it works using 2 as a gunline and the 3rd the way you mentioned. Hmm.. this actually might open up some options for me.

Thanks for the topic.

Piz wrote:Now that I think about it, I might try to run 3 20 man blobs ( limited to how many models i can use presently ) and see how it works using 2 as a gunline and the 3rd the way you mentioned. Hmm.. this actually might open up some options for me.

Thanks for the topic.

im also thinking about this (having one blob camping on an objective) but i will still equip them with pw's and melta bombs and just sub out melta guns for auto cannons.

is that what your thinking about for equipment? also please let me know how you go with 1 stationary blob and 2 combat blobs as i wont be free to try it for a week or so and im keen to hear your opinion.

Piz: no problems mate, just sharing what I have observed from reading Ailaros reports. He is a very smart man. And yes, I will be running two 20 man blobs of power weapons running forward, and two blobs of 20 with autocannons instead of power weapons, and GL not melta. With two basilisks and manticore in the back as well (bubblewrapped by the static blobs).. Gonna be interesting!

Well, I got a 1k game tomorrow, opponent is play testing, so I'm going to try it out then.

I'm currently thinking of running

2, 20 man blobs with ( "Gun line" )
Commissar + PW
Sergeants + PW and Meltas x2

1, 20 man blob with ( "Snake" )
Sergeants + PW and Meltas x2

The rest of the squads bare. Keep in mind, they're bare to fit within the 1k point limit. I'm also still new to 40k, so I may not use it as effectively as an experienced Guard, but I'll be sure to PM ( or post here if it's still "popular" ) my results and what I think of it.

I'd like to keep both of my Scout Lascannon Sentinels, but if you want results with GLs and Meltas I'll drop one for the game. It's a friendly game, so it won't be a big deal.

Well, i hope the snake blob is getting a commissar as well?? Also try swapping out meltas on your gunline blobs for autocannons if the opponent likes transports, or heavybolters for horde/marine spam. Definitely keep the LC sentinels for tank/dread hunting! Unless you pack a few LC in your CCS and PCS.

I honestly hate autocannons, they are bloody useless and i agree with Ailaros where he also says they are not very good at anything. My experience is bad so far using them, however i often dont have optimal targets for them. I rarely go against mech-spam

I primarily play 1,500, but tomorrow he asked for a 1k game.

Here's what I've got so far -

CCS - Bare

PCS 1 - Flamers x4 ( Was thinking of having them screen [?] the snake blob and roast anything before or after any CC )

Blob - Commissar + PW, PW x2, Meltabombs x2, Meltaguns x2 ( pop any transports )

Gunline -

PCS - Bare

Blob - PW x2 , Meltabombs x2, AC, Commissar + PW
Blob - PW x2 , Meltabombs x2, AC
^ cant find the points for a commissar.

Scout Sentinel - LC and HKM

Leman Russ Exterminators - Bare x2

1000 points exact.

I don't have a TON at my disposal but if you want the blobs to specifically have something, for purposes of results, let me know. I know he'll have a LR and probably as many Rhinos as he can take.

Maybe drop a LRE for the other scout + commissar and PW?

If you have to, drop the exterminator.. However if you prefer the ext, maybe put the two gunline blobs as one MASSIVE blob sharing the one commissar? Not a good idea really, but hey desperation leads to desperate acts haha. You could also remove the flamers from the PCS, as if you use them to screen they will almost instantly get shot to death. They act as a 30 pt screen really.

So save 20 pts there by removing flamers, and remove power weapons from the gunline blob sgts, giving the points required for the commissar with power weapon. This will allow you to keep the exterminator. Might need to scrap one set of meltabomb on a sgt if you need 5pts somewhere.

Against rhinos if he gets too close, try to wrap your blob around it and blow it up with grenades, and the passengers will auto-die.

Scrapped all the Flamers and the PWs in the gunline and added meltabombs to them ( apparently I didn't have them added before LOL ).All blobs have a commissar, snake blob has PWs, Meltabombs and Meltaguns. Left with 5 points remaining and have both Exterminators. I think that's about as good as it's going to get for now.

If anything this helps me get a good barrings on a 1000 list for any weird 1000 point tournaments lol.

If you guys don't have anymore suggestions, I'll use what I got tomorrow and report back asap with results. However I must repeat, I am still new so I won't do as well as an experienced player.

As previously stated I think using this in combination with static fire lines may well be an interresting tactic. The way I see it you can lure the enemies into your Static lines range with the non static cc ready squads. By pulling em into static range you can greatly reduce them before they hit your cc unit thus improving the effectivness of the cc unit through the lengthening of odds. This is only a theory though. I am still very much new to 40k but I thought id toss out this possible usage.

If my logic is flawed or out right dumb please do not hesitate to correct me as im trying to constantly improve my knowledge of tactics and skills. I just ask that the critiques are done in a curteous manner.

That was exactly what I was thinking.

In a bigger points game, I was thinking a HH or Chimera with HFs would be a nice screen in areas that have little cover. Plus they'd help out thin units out ( hopefully ). Only thing that might be a problem is if it gets destroyed right next to the unit and takes a chunk of them with it.

With extra points, buy chimeras for the blob/s but deploy them empty, and chuck your heavy weapons teams in them. At high points games you can use creed and give a LC hvy weapon team scouts and scout-embark into chimera for first turn protection. The problem is you cannot use Brong It Down orders to embarked units, so miss out a little bit..


Mexican general, your tactic would work using Al'Rahem and flank the CC blob so it can come in from the side most needed(hopefully) and intercept the enemy's advance towards your gunline blobs. Either that or just have the CC blob spread out across the whole front of the gunline and used as buffer, and also provide shooting.protection to those unita behind. Obviously any direct fire weapons such as lascannons will need the appropriate firing lanes exposed. The CC blob can just stand there and add it's rapid firing to the gunline instead of initiating the charge, because a blob is great for also receiving a charge.

I do stuff like this all the time with big units of ork boyz to cover objectives and deny ground to the enemy.

If folk think this is cheesy they should see the little lines of orks that lead to my out of LOS big mek with KFF.

Haha jubear. A primaris psyker attached to a blob squad can cast nightshroud and make all enemies have to pass LD check in order to target/shoot the unit.. Similar shenanigans

40k is a game of micro management some folk just do not get that.

You know what they say every centimeter counts (or 3/8th of an inch if thats your flavour/flavor))

Even being off by a small amount during movement can cause all hell to break loose.

At least with blobs, a wrong move takes a while to kill them lol.

How effective are Blobs when fighting Purifiers? I would assume the blob gets eaten due to the cleansing flame (more so if multiple Purifier squads), but the only IG I've had the honor to play against are all mech. Sorry to post a question not "really" related to the original OP.

Purifiers are often small 5 man units, so they get shot up pretty good. If they do get to use their cleansing flame then yes it does hurt. Avoid them! Or triple-shot them.

Okay, so.
I've been exceedingly successful with my infantry guard army, its wheelhouses are as follows:

-No tanks, if you have one tank its eating 100% of enemy anti tank fire, with current meta being mech based it can extremely effective against many lists that are just "pack as much melta into your list as humanly possible.

-Your movement pictures are close but not quite right, you sort of "spiderweb" the unit out to minimize blast damage, flamer damage, and deny the enemy a juicy center to put blasts over that will always scatter over a model.

-Laspistols are crap and not worth clumping up for. each shot kills like .13 of a marine. On the other hand a sargent on the charge with creed or straken will kill ~.75 marines, if you toss a priest at the back of that unit its 1.125, not bad for a 15 point model. with 3 sarges and a commisar, you are grinding away 4ish marines a turn, plus regular attacks, its a war of attrition that is hard to lose if you can keep your poor power concentration from working against you.
Speaking of priests, you put them way way in the back and hope combat is over by the time they reach it.

-If you are expecting a unit you can't deal with, with a blob engaging you, then you can clump up and first rank second rank from cover over and over

-al'harim is a godsend, the more i use him the more I love him, he has an order that gives the unit fleet, AND it can shoot, it is a bowl of awesome.

-you need a solid base of fire, for me all my blobs get autocannons, it helps for the first turn or two of fire, and if you get one of those big bases into contact with an enemy its a huge 5" sphere of guardsmen that can attack

Ok so here are my thoughts.

The mission was Capture and Control ( could be wrong, its the one with 2 objectives - 1 in each deployment ), Spearhead deployment.

After my LRE managed to wreck 1 rhino and destroy the other one by turn 2, he had to walk/run his marines up. The game was a bit slow, but eventually my forward blob caught a charge from 1 5 man squad and another 4 man squad. My power swords managed to cut down 3, further weakening the squad. Both of them got shot up later.

At the moment, I'm liking it. I think having meltabombs on all blobs is a must, they managed to kill a deepstriking dreadnought right off the bat.

I'm really not sure what to comment on, my LREs did a majority of the work.

Okay thanks Piz for sharing the results.
Did the blob end up killing those 9 marines in total? How do you think taking one of the squads in the blob (the squad containing the commissar specifically) all with krak grenades, for a total of 11 x str6+D6 grenades. The first 10 men to die would most likely be the non-krak men. This would be instead of meltabombs. So you go from just two 6+'s to hit, to eleven. Unfortunately you can only glance on a 6 for most dreads, with AV12. AV13 are immune. Not sure on the mathhammer but if you can glance repeatedly you can disable and remove weapons fairly quickly from walkers. And enough glances will destroy it, WITHOUT blowing it up, possibly killing a majority of your blob.

Once you immobilise it, far more grenades will hit, on a 4+ instead.

This idea also means that if your sgt gets shot somehow by commissar or a pie plate causes a sgt to fail his save, your effectiveness is halved if you only had two meltabombs.

Hell, all 21 with krak grenades would almost guarentee 3-4 glancin hits each round.

I managed to kill off 3 or 4, but failed my leadership T_T. Ended up shooting them to death from my last blob and LRE.

I'd say krak grenades would be good, I got lucky on my meltabomb. Plus, like you said, if you can destroy it without it blowing up and damaging the blob that's all the better. The blob that killed the Dreadnought lost 25% and failed leadership ( twice I believe ) and ran off the board.

I'm going to redo my 1k list from scratch to try and come up with a better list, will try to get krak grenades in there on the gunline blobs for any deep striking dread shenanigans.