Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I got a question regarding hive worlds, we know they are a great source of recruitment for imperial guards etc but what about space marine, do space marine recruit from gang worlds and is there a chapter that is made of marines related or from gang worlds (like a dirty dozen space marine chapter)

yevix wrote:I got a question regarding hive worlds, we know they are a great source of recruitment for imperial guards etc but what about space marine, do space marine recruit from gang worlds and is there a chapter that is made of marines related or from gang worlds (like a dirty dozen space marine chapter)

Yes, marines recruit from gangs from hive worlds (there is no such thing as a "gang world"). I believe the Night Lords recruited from criminals/gangs. However it is worthy of note that regardless of where a marine is recruited from, by the time they are done being indoctrinated, they don't act like gangers any more.

Hivescum from gangs on Hive Worlds would actually make great Space Marine recruits, the problem is the Astartes usually hold dominion over their recruiting world and a Hive World is too vast for them to control without an Ultramar PDF-type setup. Most chapters prefer Feral and Feudal worlds for this reason. You get a small but savage population that's also easy to control.

It's not always the case though, such as the Imperial Fists being officially based on Terra which they do not actually control. Deliverance and Medusa also sound like heavily populated Forge Worlds.

Marine recruits are always children when they are recruited, like 10 years of age or less, and training often (if not always) results in memory loss of what life was like prior to being recruited. So yes, there are marine chapters that recruit from hive world and the scum they find in hive gangs, provided they can find sufficiently pure/unmutated samplings, but thats irrelevant to the general characteristics of the chapter as a whole.

In addition to that, the Adeptus Astartes are a very regimented and tightly controlled organization. The dirty dozen mindset is incompatible with that, at least within the Imperium. Even amongst the most codex divergent chapters out there this is the case.

yep they do that
the IF recruits from necromunda and thats some hive world

chaos0xomega wrote:Marine recruits are always children when they are recruited, like 10 years of age or less, and training often (if not always) results in memory loss of what life was like prior to being recruited. So yes, there are marine chapters that recruit from hive world and the scum they find in hive gangs, provided they can find sufficiently pure/unmutated samplings, but thats irrelevant to the general characteristics of the chapter as a whole.

In addition to that, the Adeptus Astartes are a very regimented and tightly controlled organization. The dirty dozen mindset is incompatible with that, at least within the Imperium. Even amongst the most codex divergent chapters out there this is the case.

Well see I Kinda disagree - as long as they help their brothers (gang member do that) and as long as they get the job done (gangs sometimes do that - being a space marine helps) there shouldnt be a problem of how they behave on their home world - we have space marine who eat people, we have vampire marines, werewolf marines, romans and every thing else in between surely a gang style chapter wouldn't be so far fetched.

yevix wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Marine recruits are always children when they are recruited, like 10 years of age or less, and training often (if not always) results in memory loss of what life was like prior to being recruited. So yes, there are marine chapters that recruit from hive world and the scum they find in hive gangs, provided they can find sufficiently pure/unmutated samplings, but thats irrelevant to the general characteristics of the chapter as a whole.

In addition to that, the Adeptus Astartes are a very regimented and tightly controlled organization. The dirty dozen mindset is incompatible with that, at least within the Imperium. Even amongst the most codex divergent chapters out there this is the case.

Well see I Kinda disagree - as long as they help their brothers (gang member do that) and as long as they get the job done (gangs sometimes do that - being a space marine helps) there shouldnt be a problem of how they behave on their home world - we have space marine who eat people, we have vampire marines, werewolf marines, romans and every thing else in between surely a gang style chapter wouldn't be so far fetched.

Less so than you might think. By 'vampire' & 'werewolf' marines I assume you're referring to Blood Angels & Space Wolves? Both of those flaws are inherent to the geneseed used in the creation of the marines, and have nothing to do with the characteristics of the human populations those chapters recruit from: there are no vampires on Baal & there are no werewolves on Fenris.

Like Venix said, even if a marine chapter was recruiting from a world of gangers, there would be very little in the way of the feral gang children left in the adult astartes from that chapter.

In dawn of war 2, one of the main characters is recruited from the hive world of meridian, he used to be a ganger

There are such marines. In Chaos Rising (the game) the assault marine was a member of a gang.

A lot of marines are former hive gangers. PG 62 of Insignium Astartes and I'm sure other publications mention some marines tattoos are from thier pre Recruitment gangs.

yevix wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Marine recruits are always children when they are recruited, like 10 years of age or less, and training often (if not always) results in memory loss of what life was like prior to being recruited. So yes, there are marine chapters that recruit from hive world and the scum they find in hive gangs, provided they can find sufficiently pure/unmutated samplings, but thats irrelevant to the general characteristics of the chapter as a whole.

In addition to that, the Adeptus Astartes are a very regimented and tightly controlled organization. The dirty dozen mindset is incompatible with that, at least within the Imperium. Even amongst the most codex divergent chapters out there this is the case.

Well see I Kinda disagree - as long as they help their brothers (gang member do that) and as long as they get the job done (gangs sometimes do that - being a space marine helps) there shouldnt be a problem of how they behave on their home world - we have space marine who eat people, we have vampire marines, werewolf marines, romans and every thing else in between surely a gang style chapter wouldn't be so far fetched.

That is all very different from the Dirty Dozen concept. They are mavericks, loners, and renegades... that is not at all what any of the loyalist SM chapters are, nor is that what a Space Marine is supposed to be. Hell, not even the CSM warbands can really be described like that. While there is a lot of infighting to be sure, they are still very disciplined warriors.

What chaos0xomega said. I get the impression you really want to make a "dirty dozen" marine army and were more or less coming here for confirmation... that is not the case however. Space Marines don't roll like that.

Space Wolf Scouts and Lone Wolfs would be ideal for that Dirty Dozen army. Not because they were ever gangers but because of the fluff.

ph34r wrote:What chaos0xomega said. I get the impression you really want to make a "dirty dozen" marine army and were more or less coming here for confirmation... that is not the case however. Space Marines don't roll like that.

Well yes and no actually - maybe it was my mistake using the term dirty dozen (which most will associate with the movie about a bunch of loners working together) I should have said gang mentality - I really want to make a space marine chapter that is not all HOLY MOLLY FOR THE EMPRAH, I love space marine but I really hate the whole monks in space mentality - surely marines with more gang mentality could work and gangs do work together and are highly organized so it wouldn't be too crazy to have marine living in a hive world ruled by gangs or mafia like organization - I am already looking at posing my marines with bolters in gangsta position








and for Imperium crime is not that bad - mafia and gangs bring order to chaos (in its own special way) as long as they don't move away from imperial law they should be all ok.

Lol if gangs were organised then your dude above would actually learn to shoot a gun properly pfft kids these days eh?

Gangs are only highly organized in the sense that they have an organizational structure, other than that they are rather ragtag and independent. Not at all a Space Marine chapter

chaos0xomega wrote:Marine recruits are always children when they are recruited, like 10 years of age or less.

It is usually older 10 - 12, but that is really meaningless in this debate when even on a world like ours we have childern as young as that in gangs and armys.

Harriticus wrote:Hivescum from gangs on Hive Worlds would actually make great Space Marine recruits, the problem is the Astartes usually hold dominion over their recruiting world and a Hive World is too vast for them to control without an Ultramar PDF-type setup. Most chapters prefer Feral and Feudal worlds for this reason. You get a small but savage population that's also easy to control.

It's not always the case though, such as the Imperial Fists being officially based on Terra which they do not actually control. Deliverance and Medusa also sound like heavily populated Forge Worlds.

Chapters do not normally hold hive worlds as chapter worlds due to the fact that they are too important to the Admin to give away to marines (only first founding chapters can, seeing as a primarch landed on it).

However Chapters can have rights given by the High Lords or bonds given by governors for help that give a chapter the right to pick recruits from hive worlders, such as the IF who recruit from Necromunda.

BluntmanDC wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Marine recruits are always children when they are recruited, like 10 years of age or less.

It is usually older 10 - 12, but that is really meaningless in this debate when even on a world like ours we have childern as young as that in gangs and armys.

Still doesn't change the fact that by the time they have completed training, etc. they won't remember the vast majority of their life prior to being an astartes.

The most infamous Hive World Marines were the Luna Wolves from Cthonia.

Farseer Petriel wrote:The most infamous Hive World Marines were the Night Lords from Nostramo.

Fixed that for ya.

The lower reaches of Hives are basically left alone by the Imperial Government. No one goes down there for good reason.


and recruits will most certaintly forget their early days by the time they are a full Battle Brother. at best, they would have the memories, but their habits and behaviors will have been completely overridden by the implantation process.

Yup.
indoctraination into a full fledged Astrates means your past life is gone same with the habits and behaviors, unless you are a blood raven then you remember everything.

Basically, if you want loyalist Space Marines, you get the Holy Warriors of the God-Emperor of Mankind with the package.

Sigh, hive gangers in the Marines is a part of the fluff, and yes they are IN gangs and remember being a ganger. It's not like thier memory goes away, no one elses does. Plenty of marines remember thier time in the tribes on feral worlds. Why would it be any different for gangers?
Just because they receive psycho indoctrination doesn't mean the stop being former gangers. They just have discipline and a greater purpose now.

AustonT wrote:Sigh, hive gangers in the Marines is a part of the fluff, and yes they are IN gangs and remember being a ganger. It's not like thier memory goes away, no one elses does. Plenty of marines remember thier time in the tribes on feral worlds. Why would it be any different for gangers?
Just because they receive psycho indoctrination doesn't mean the stop being former gangers. They just have discipline and a greater purpose now.

They have the memories but none of the habits and behaviors as they once did, they age and get alot more different.

This has inspired my new chapter, the Pimpmarines

Their armor will be purple, with gold trim and icons.

Their symbol will be an outstretched hand, ready to slap

All their vehicles shall be exquisitely customized by their Techmarines, with spinning rims on the tank treads, Land Raiders with hydraulics, and large bass speakers mounted on every surface.

The Pimpmarines also show several terminology changes. "Battle-Brothers" are instead referred to as "Homeboys", for one.

AustonT wrote:Sigh, hive gangers in the Marines is a part of the fluff, and yes they are IN gangs and remember being a ganger. It's not like thier memory goes away, no one elses does. Plenty of marines remember thier time in the tribes on feral worlds. Why would it be any different for gangers?
Just because they receive psycho indoctrination doesn't mean the stop being former gangers. They just have discipline and a greater purpose now.

Considering how many instances of the fluff mention a lack of these memories (both for loyalists and traitors) I highly doubt it.

chaos0xomega wrote:

AustonT wrote:Sigh, hive gangers in the Marines is a part of the fluff, and yes they are IN gangs and remember being a ganger. It's not like thier memory goes away, no one elses does. Plenty of marines remember thier time in the tribes on feral worlds. Why would it be any different for gangers?
Just because they receive psycho indoctrination doesn't mean the stop being former gangers. They just have discipline and a greater purpose now.

Considering how many instances of the fluff mention a lack of these memories (both for loyalists and traitors) I highly doubt it.

Its more of a non-desire for the memories then an actual forgetting. Neither the marine, nor his Battle Brothers, will have need to remember the time Brother Bob robbed that convienience store and got away with a pack of Cigs, 2 bottles of Sacra, and kidnapped the cute Cashier for a night of fun.

We do have plenty of instances of Marines remembering their former life and musing over What Ifs and other such things(Space Wolf Omnibus for one)

Very frequently.

Coolyo294 wrote:

Farseer Petriel wrote:The most infamous Hive World Marines were the Night Lords from Nostramo.

Fixed that for ya.

Night Lords were notorius too, but they weren't the main Traitor Legion.