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Hello everyone,

I had some time time of holidays which gave me enough time to read the SM codex fully. Previously I had designed a list of standard Ultramarines for 1000 points with libby, 2 squads of tactical on rhinos, 5 element squad of sternguard in razorback plus two predators.

But after reading the dex I become interested in taking a crimson fist list, given the cost of the HQ I believe that 1500 is probably the lowest limit for them to be competitive so I am going for that.

My idea was to keep the troops as the minimum possible (2*6 scout squads on razorbacks) plus as much sterguard as I could. But after 5 attempts I don't seem to be able to decide the best way to run them.

So what is the best way to run them? As full 10 man squads or split them in smaller squads of 6? I am just worried that 6 might be a number which is to low and stick them in razorbacks means loosing the ability to shoot inside the vehicles with the bolt I paid more to have.

Finally what is your opinion on the Honour Guard? I really like the fluff but they cost has much has the assault terminators so the only reason I would like to take them is they don't need a LR and can take a Razorback or drop pod, this way I could manage to fit them on my list otherwise AT+LR is too much of a point sink.

Thank you very much in advance,
Bacms

I like the honour guard as they can actually hold their own in cc and you will be using the elite choices for sternguard so you lack a cc hammer. Put them in a landraider.

Scouts can not have razorbacks.

To use sternguard as scoring units I think rhinos are the option. 5 man squad with two lascannons and rhino as you back objective holder. Then 2 meltas in an 8 man squad in a rhino for two squads being a venguard. Then 2 5 man razorback squads as troops with las/plas or assault cannons seem to complement this.

However think about what you are giving up: combat tactics, forcing yourself to take 5 scoring units and removing your elite options.

I would suggest full size units in drop pods. You can equip them to alpha strike with either melta or plasma guns and drop them on objectives.
You may even want to go full drop pod, that way you can take advantage of pedro's +1A bubble by podding everything in a group.

Give every Sergeant a Power Fist.

I can't find enough points for PF on the sarges.
Here are the lists I have at the moment:

Option 1 1500Pts
HQ - Pedro Khantor 175Pts
Honour Guard 5 models 240Pts
¦------ Hammer
¦------ Razorback

Troop 1 - Scout Squad 5 units 110Pts
¦------ ML
¦------ Cammo Cloaks
Troop 2 - Scout Squad 5 units 110Pts
¦------ ML
¦------ Cammo Cloaks

Elites 1 - Sterguard 6 man squad 210Pts
¦------ 2xCombi Melta
¦------ 2xCombi Flamer
¦------ Razorback
Elites 2 - Sterguard 6 man squad210Pts
¦------ 2xCombi Melta
¦------ 2xCombi Flamer
¦------ Razorback
Elites 3 - Sterguard 6 man squad205Pts
¦------ 2xCombi Melta
¦------ 1xCombi Flamer
¦------ Razorback

Heavy 1 - Predator AC/LC 120Pts
Heavy 2 - Predator AC/LC 120Pts

Option 2 1500Pts
HQ - Pedro Khantor 175Pts
Honour Guard 5 models 255Pts
¦------ Hammer
¦------ Relic Blade
¦------ Razorback

Troop 1 - Scout Squad 5 units 110Pts
¦------ ML
¦------ Cammo Cloaks
Troop 2 - Scout Squad 5 units 110Pts
¦------ ML
¦------ Cammo Cloaks

Elites 1 - Sterguard 10 man squad 310Pts
¦------ 3xCombi Melta
¦------ 2xCombi Flamer
¦------ Rhino or Drop Pod
Elites 2 - Sterguard 10 man squad310Pts
¦------ 3xCombi Melta
¦------ 2xCombi Flamer
¦------ Rhino or Drop Pod

Heavy 1 - Predator AC/LC 120Pts
Heavy 2 - Predator AC/LC 120Pts

Say which one you prefer and why.

option 2 as you'll need the razorback, or some, protection to get your cc hammer into play.

I am shocked no one has complained about honour guard. I am sure my pleasure in them is perverse.

Combiflamers/flamers are not in for the sternguard as their ammo should give antiinfantry attack not to mention the 'back they sit in has antitroop firepower. I would however go for 4 combimeltas this will give you 2 goes at shooting twice, obviously, you may need it, you may even need to shoot 4 times on a Landraider.

MFletch wrote:option 2 as you'll need the razorback, or some, protection to get your cc hammer into play.

Both options take the CC hammer into a razorback the differences are on the sterguard.

MFletch wrote:I am shocked no one has complained about honour guard. I am sure my pleasure in them is perverse.

How do you run them if you do?

Protection
Essentially two rhinos to cover and distract or three razorbacks to cover and distract.


Honour Guard
I use a landraider and then roll my army forward and can choose who to charge. With as many inv. save characters as possible. It is like using sanguinary guard, just keep them away from power weapons. Sure assault termies with 5LC would be better but I feel happy inside every time my honour guard overrun an enemy. They seem to work for me, they really ought not to.

I would drop the cloaks on the scouts anyone who is going to waste shooting on them either really hates scouts or has nothing else to shoot at especially with 4 Rhino/Razorbacks filled with angry marines with combi-weapons.

Personally I prefer pods. Combi-meltas are my preferred load-out. I love Sternguard, but have never run with Kantor. (I prefer Vulkan.) I may give this a try now that you bring it up. If you get it figured out, lemme know what you come up with!

3X 5 combimeltas/5 Combiflamers Drop pod
3X tac squads in pods

If the reserve everything, tac squads come first. If they do not reserve everything Sternguard comes down and ruins their day.

If you have the points add 3 storms with MM and 3 assualt scout squads w/ combimelta powerfist.

It is a fast hard hitting alpha strike set up.

Incedently Vulcan makes this type of list even scarier.

If Codex Marines could use Storm Ravens, Honour Guard would be awesome with Dread support. An exclusive Land Raider is probably their best delivery method, in which case you're settling a huge chunk of points that might be better spent on Terminators. They're fairly dead meat in the open with the weight of firepower many armies carry around, so the option of teleporting, the survivability of assault terminators and the flexibility of tactical Terminators.

Sternguard make great assault teams for lightly defended objectives, whilst their Tactical brethren camp on home objectives and lend fire. They can shatter up to power-armoured foes with ease. You can essentially spearhead with them to draw fire and do a lot of damage, which doesn't help their survivability but helps them to be a distraction! Savvy players will be trying to deal with them, which allows you to tactically place attacks with the rest of your army more easily. Drop-pod them in, combat-squad them apart with meltas in either team and nuke a couple of vehicles on the first turn - up to three if you want to pop a cheap captain with a combi-melta in to set out apart from the combat squads.

This sort of 'chaos drop' really helps you get a Land Raider into play unscathed. If your embarked assault team drives for the drop-point you can break their army apart pretty terrifically when they're camped up.

It's less risky to use either against low-firepower armies, and the Sternguard's flexible firepower combined with the counter-charge threat of your assault element makes them fairly straightforward in a tactical or defensive role.

DisgruntldGoat wrote:I would drop the cloaks on the scouts anyone who is going to waste shooting on them either really hates scouts or has nothing else to shoot at especially with 4 Rhino/Razorbacks filled with angry marines with combi-weapons.

How about bolter fire? How about short ranged weapons? How about antiinfantry weapons?