Psychopathic Protagonist

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**DickBandit**

You know what I want to see for a main character in a story in a video game. A Psychopath. Not a Hollywood Psychopath (a mindless serial killer), but a person who "suffers" from true psychopathy:
~Inability to feel emotions
~"Friends" mean nothing more than people with exploitable assets.
~Believes he isn't the one with problems, but the rest of humanity suffers from a disease known as "emotion" and "sympathy".

Throughout the story this protagonist would seem like a complete donkey-cave, but by the end of the story you'd realize that the donkey-cave is you because you wouldn't have the balls to make the decisions that he made. You would be too crippled by emotion and the "what ifs" of your actions. You wouldn't be able to act calm under intense pressure, you wouldn't have the cold, calculative mind capable of persevering through the tough decisions.

It's hard to put into words exactly what I'm trying to say, but I guess it stems from having to sit through so many stories with forced romance, painfully awkward interactions between characters, and completely flat and lifeless characters. I think it would be awesome to make a character who is a psychopath. To have a real look at how these illusive and cunning individuals function in what is to them an alien environment. There's a lot to work with. Psychological studies have shown that very, very few percentage of people with psychopathy(which is a REALLY low number) are violent. And as the saying goes: Psychopaths don't get revenge, they get even.

**LordofHats**

Sounds like you need to read Hellsing if you haven't already. Or just watch Hellsing Ultimate.

Personally I've always like bad guys as the 'good guys.' Much more exciting than some goody two-shoes.

**Viersche**

They should make a video game with deadpool as the protagonist then...

**halonachos**

wiki wrote:
Psychopaths are impulsive by nature. They do not deeply recognize the risk of being caught, disbelieved or injured as a result of their behavior.They seek quick satisfaction and thrills. Their crimes are often spur-of-moment affairs.

Psychopaths live day-to-day, changing their plans frequently and generally do not have any realistic long term goals. Psychopaths often claim to have ambitious goals in life, but fail to appreciate the work, skill and discipline it would take to achieve them. Hare writes of one psychopathic inmate who planned to become a professional swimmer after release, despite the fact he was in his late thirties and overweight. They are known to break off relationships, change plans, and quit jobs on a whim. A characteristic life pattern is of bouncing from one job to another and sometimes in and out of prison. They are generally not embarrassed or concerned about their lack of achievement in their lives.

Psychopaths are commonly irresponsible. In the workplace, they are known for erratic performance, frequent absences, embezzlement, and untrustworthiness. They are financially irresponsible, often living beyond their means, incurring debt and defaulting on loans. They often neglect their children. They often have unprotected sex, siring children that they abandon and transmit STDs. When they get in trouble due to their negligence, they typically blame other people or external factors. They do not hesitate to exploit the resources of friends and family to get them out of trouble, such as being bailed out of jail.

Psychopaths often fail to learn from past experiences and do not modify their behavior to avoid trouble. They often pursue the same old bad habits despite having suffered retribution and humiliation numerous times. Punishment and rehabilitation have no positive effect on them, and their condition is considered untreatable. The rate of recidivism among psychopaths is roughly double that of normal criminals, with the rate for violent recidivism being roughly three times higher than normal

That and they tend to blame the victim... a lot. If they happen to murder a loved one, they say that they lost a loved one.

So yeah, would not be a good character at all to play as. Mainly because they wouldn't want to achieve any larger goals. Sure they may want to save the planet, but its a lot of work so maybe they'll do something else.

**LordofHats**

halonachos wrote:So yeah, would not be a good character at all to play as. Mainly because they wouldn't want to achieve any larger goals. Sure they may want to save the planet, but its a lot of work so maybe they'll do something else.

Or maybe the big bad just upset them so they feel like going ape

on them. Perhaps there's a fight and they decided to just throw themselves into it. And being a psychopath/sociopath doesn't mean you have no goals. There's numerous ways to include an absolutely insane character in a storyline, even as a hero.

**halonachos**

LordofHats wrote:
halonachos wrote:So yeah, would not be a good character at all to play as. Mainly because they wouldn't want to achieve any larger goals. Sure they may want to save the planet, but its a lot of work so maybe they'll do something else.

Or maybe the big bad just upset them so they feel like going ape on them. Perhaps there's a fight and they decided to just throw themselves into it. And being a psychopath/sociopath doesn't mean you have no goals. There's numerous ways to include an absolutely insane character in a storyline, even as a hero.

Not a true psycopath, they have goals but usually never attain them because they tend to be impulsive in nature thanks to the fact that its never their fault something happened, it was somebody else's fault. If a big bad guy did something to them then yes they would try to ape gak on them, but it wouldn't be anything like a big fight against a lot of enemies that would require the psycopath to travel large distances. Besides, the true nature of a psycopath is the fact that they lack empathy, which means they lack emotions.

You want a game with a large overarching story, not happening with a psycopath. You want a game with character development, not happening with a psycopath(psycopaths tend to be incredibly shallow). You want a game where you want to achieve this arduous task, not happening with a psycopath. Seriously, a true psycopath cannot hold a job, often abandons their children, and so on and on. They may say that they have goals, but don't understand that it may take a lot of work and will fail at it. Then later on they'll try the same thing because they don't learn from their mistakes. Its why there is a higher rate of returns to prison for a psycopath compared to other inmates.

**Grundz**

DickBandit wrote: You know what I want to see for a main character in a story in a video game. A Psychopath. Not a Hollywood Psychopath (a mindless serial killer), but a person who "suffers" from true psychopathy:
~Inability to feel emotions
~"Friends" mean nothing more than people with exploitable assets.
~Believes he isn't the one with problems, but the rest of humanity suffers from a disease known as "emotion" and "sympathy".

so you want to make a video game about me?

**halonachos**

Grundz wrote:
DickBandit wrote: You know what I want to see for a main character in a story in a video game. A Psychopath. Not a Hollywood Psychopath (a mindless serial killer), but a person who "suffers" from true psychopathy:
~Inability to feel emotions
~"Friends" mean nothing more than people with exploitable assets.
~Believes he isn't the one with problems, but the rest of humanity suffers from a disease known as "emotion" and "sympathy".

so you want to make a video game about me?

No, because if you recognize yourself as having symptoms then you're not really a psycopath. Its a Catch 22 if you will.

**LordofHats**

halonachos wrote:Besides, the true nature of a psycopath is the fact that they lack empathy, which means they lack emotions.

No. Lacking empathy and lacking emoition are no where near the same thing. Empathy is the ability to relate to other human beings on an emotional level, which psycopaths/sociopaths cannot. This can mean that they are not as emotionally expressive/deep as other people but its not the same thing as having no emotions. Because they don't relate to others, they don't experience a lot of emotions you or I might (love is certainly out the window).

You want a game with a large overarching story, not happening with a psycopath.

Hellsing. Only about two three people in there who aren't psycopaths.

You want a game with character development, not happening with a psycopath(psycopaths tend to be incredibly shallow).

Very true in a general sense but you shouldn't confuse character depth with character development (if we choose to define character development as the evolution of a character over a story). Not all stories require a character to develop. Some kinds of characters are better off not developing.

Seriously, a true psycopath cannot hold a job, often abandons their children, and so on and on.

Not true. Many more famous psycopaths happen to be serial killers, but most never kill anyone and are for the most part functional members of society. We just never hear about them cause they're not news worthy.

They may say that they have goals, but don't understand that it may take a lot of work and will fail at it.

This is common trait of human beings in general. What Ted Bundy and Charlie Manson did took a lot of work, and they're about as wacky extreme crazy as psycopaths can get. Irresponsibility and failure don't necessarily go hand in hand.

**Grundz**

halonachos wrote:
No, because if you recognize yourself as having symptoms then you're not really a psycopath. Its a Catch 22 if you will.

I thought it just made me not an idiot,

**Platuan4th**

LordofHats wrote:

Seriously, a true psycopath cannot hold a job, often abandons their children, and so on and on.

Not true. Many more famous psycopaths happen to be serial killers, but most never kill anyone and are for the most part functional members of society. We just never hear about them cause they're not news worthy.

This. Most sociopaths/psychopaths learn how to "fake it" to attempt to fit into society. They can't really fulfill their own wants and needs otherwise.

**LordofHats**

Platuan4th wrote:
LordofHats wrote:

Seriously, a true psycopath cannot hold a job, often abandons their children, and so on and on.

Not true. Many more famous psycopaths happen to be serial killers, but most never kill anyone and are for the most part functional members of society. We just never hear about them cause they're not news worthy.

This. Most sociopaths/psychopaths learn how to "fake it" to attempt to fit into society.

No one knows your crazy till you start swinging an axe at them

EDIT: It's also worth pointing out that the hero is doesn't necessarily have to be the protagonist. Protagonist tend to be the good guys, but a protagonist is really just the central focus of the story. We could easily inverse any story to tell it from the POV of the villain, turning the bad guy into the protagonist and the good guy into the antagonist.

**Grundz**

This. Most sociopaths/psychopaths learn how to "fake it" to attempt to fit into society. They can't really fulfill their own wants and needs otherwise.

Pretty much, my ex girlfriend was utterly shocked and devistated when she tried to play her games with me and found out I don't actually care in the slightest. Was amusing for a little while.

**halonachos**

Lordofhats, you seem to be getting psycopath and crazy mixed up.

Psycopaths have their own wants sure, but they don't really plan around it. You can disagree with me, but I have a DSM-IV that agrees with me. Which is a large book that talks about all sorts of nice mental health issues written by a council of psychiatrists.

If you lack emotion, you could just lack emotion. If you can plan out your week and just don't care emotionally then you're not really a true psycopath.

Lacking emotion has another term, its called being Jaded. A man goes to war and comes back without any emotion, but manages to live a successful life, keeps a steady job, but just doesn't care about things emotionally anymore. He's not a psycopath because of it though.

I'm not one for games that play on emotion, but I would never call myself a psycopath because I've been able to keep a job for four years straight and have been able to apply myself. I don't really have friends save for a select few, but I don't think I'm antisocial.

I have not yet to watch Hellsing, but if a character is supposed to be a 'psycopath' then he most likely is not a true psycopath. To be a psycopath you have to exhibit all or most of the symptoms, not just one or two.

**LordofHats**

halonachos wrote:Psycopaths have their own wants sure, but they don't really plan around it. You can disagree with me, but I have a DSM-IV that agrees with me. Which is a large book that talks about all sorts of nice mental health issues written by a council of psychiatrists.

You'll be hard pressed to find the word 'psychopath' in the DSM-IV. Current both psychopathy and sociopathy are not recognized disorders. They're covered under the extremely broad 'Anti-Social Personality Disorder.'

I'm not one for games that play on emotion, but I would never call myself a psycopath because I've been able to keep a job for four years straight and have been able to apply myself.

Of course not. You're right when you say psychopaths do not recognize that they are psychopaths. People with sever mental disorders rarely recognize they have them.

I don't really have friends save for a select few, but I don't think I'm antisocial.

Anti-social behavior exists in varying degrees, psychopathy and sociopathy being extremes of anti-social behavior. I'm anti-social but I doubt either of us would be considered outside the norm for typical human beings.

I have not yet to watch Hellsing, but if a character is supposed to be a 'psycopath' then he most likely is not a true psycopath.

Most of the characters are in fact psychopaths. Alucard and Anderson often are called psychopaths (I do it for simplicity) but they're really just psychotic as he shows an obvious ability to connect to others emotionally (on some level). The Captain, the Major, the Doctor, and most of the antagonists are the actual psychopaths in the story. They're all some sort of crazy and Alucard in particular is initially portrayed as psychopathic, but towards the end is obviously capable of emotional connection.

Perhaps we should consider that when OP said psychopath, he was really using the generalist definition of psychopath. Meaning a really really crazy person with murderous tendencies

**Perkustin**

Nathan Drake

Throughout the course of both games you slaughter at least a thousand people. He shows no remorse or even acknowledgment and even relishes the encounters. He is not even the typical tortured soul from videogames always ready for a quip.

**Platuan4th**

Perkustin wrote:Nathan Drake

Throughout the course of both games you slaughter at least a thousand people. He shows no remorse or even acknowledgment and even relishes the encounters. He is not even the typical tortured soul from videogames always ready for a quip.

Matt Casamassina of IGN commented on the character's interactions during gameplay that reveal Drake's nature: "it's lighthearted and amusing, but it also demonstrates that Nate is aware of how absurd his predicaments sometimes are. It's a small, unimportant communication, but it makes sense that the two would behave exactly as they do."

Nope, doesn't fit. If he "relishes the encounter", he's not a Psychopath.

**halonachos**

lordofhats wrote:You'll be hard pressed to find the word 'psychopath' in the DSM-IV. Current both psychopathy and sociopathy are not recognized disorders. They're covered under the extremely broad 'Anti-Social Personality Disorder.'

Exactly, but they fall under that category which has been defined as needing several symptoms. Not just one.

The OP probably meant someone who is just anti-social instead of actually psycopathic or ASPD. I'm thinking the OP wants someone closer to Dr. Manhatten from the Watchmen.

**LordofHats**

halonachos wrote:The OP probably meant someone who is just anti-social instead of actually psycopathic or ASPD. I'm thinking the OP wants someone closer to Dr. Manhatten from the Watchmen.

I was thinking more Hannibal Lecter, the defining psychopath of the popular imagination

(Or that guy from American Psycho).

EDIT: Now that I think of it, can Deadpool from Marvel be defined as psychopathic? He's obviously psychotic and he just does things on a whim and for money.

**halonachos**

LordofHats wrote:
halonachos wrote:The OP probably meant someone who is just anti-social instead of actually psycopathic or ASPD. I'm thinking the OP wants someone closer to Dr. Manhatten from the Watchmen.

I was thinking more Hannibal Lecter, the defining psychopath of the popular imagination (Or that guy from American Psycho)

Yeah, probably thinking about Lecter even though I don't think of him as much of a psycopath, just a guy who likes to eat people.

As far as Deadpool goes, he's schizophrenic I think, but then again his brain is constantly being destroyed and rebuilt. He has emotions, but he is impulsive. Know what, maybe Deadpool just has an incredibly violent nature coupled with ADD.

**LordofHats**

halonachos wrote:Yeah, probably thinking about Lecter even though I don't think of him as much of a psycopath, just a guy who likes to eat people.

Lecter definitely not. Being able to do work and being able to get a PHD are very different. I don't think any psycopath has ever actually gotten a full PHD. Most people just equate psychopath with crazy killer, and Lecter is probably one of numerous characters who pops into mind.

As far as Deadpool goes, he's schizophrenic I think, but then again his brain is constantly being destroyed and rebuilt. He has emotions, but he is impulsive. Know what, maybe Deadpool just has an incredibly violent nature coupled with ADD.

I suppose it depends. As the only character who realizes he's in a comic book, maybe hes the only sane guy there

Though I've been going through some of the more recent Deadpool comics and he hasn't broken the forth wall once

**halonachos**

Maybe Deadpool is becoming more sane?

Deadpool reminds me of Caboose from Red vs Blue except Caboose is the only one who realizes that he's in a videogame.

**Soladrin**

halonachos wrote:Maybe Deadpool is becoming more sane?

Deadpool reminds me of Caboose from Red vs Blue except Caboose is the only one who realizes that he's in a videogame.

And a complete idiot XD

Also, IMHO, it's a nice idea. But, being someone who can't connect emotionaly is probably gonna mean you won't be connecting much with character either. this in turn makes pretty much everything you do in the game insubstantial.

**LordofHats**

A psychopath makes a better supporting character than a main I think. People will have a hard time in generic fiction connecting emotionally to someone who... can't connect emotionally.

This could have a place in dark fantasy and mystery/thriller however.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It could work in a videogame like Devil May Cry, where everything is dominated by the rule of cool and no one really plays it to feel emotional about the character.

**DickBandit**

I thought that psychopathy and outright insanity were two different things. Being a psychopath just makes you a manipulative, unreliable donkey-cave. Being completely freakin insane means you suffer from paranoid delusions, hallucinations, panic attacks, and most importantly not being able to process reality from fantasy.

**Viersche**

Soladrin wrote:
halonachos wrote:Maybe Deadpool is becoming more sane?

Deadpool reminds me of Caboose from Red vs Blue except Caboose is the only one who realizes that he's in a videogame.

And a complete idiot XD

Also, IMHO, it's a nice idea. But, being someone who can't connect emotionaly is probably gonna mean you won't be connecting much with character either. this in turn makes pretty much everything you do in the game insubstantial.

I would imagine a deadpool game with him actually talking to you and telling you how to play the video game since he KNOWS he's in a videogame

**LordofHats**

Viersche wrote:
Soladrin wrote:
halonachos wrote:Maybe Deadpool is becoming more sane?

Deadpool reminds me of Caboose from Red vs Blue except Caboose is the only one who realizes that he's in a videogame.

And a complete idiot XD

Also, IMHO, it's a nice idea. But, being someone who can't connect emotionaly is probably gonna mean you won't be connecting much with character either. this in turn makes pretty much everything you do in the game insubstantial.

I would imagine a deadpool game with him actually talking to you and telling you how to play the video game since he KNOWS he's in a videogame

That actually sounds really epic...

**Mr. Self Destruct**

I kinda think that Renegade Shepard fits OP's definition of a psychopath, really.

-He doesn't seem to feel anything but disdain and anger
-He only gets companions because he'd get his ass kicked by the (villain) if he didn't, and he hates dealing with them in any other way
-He's extremely full of himself and criticizes others for not taking decisive action

Specifically in the end of ME2, you start to realize that his use of force and almost thuggishness in his actions leads to the results in the end. Your determination in your actions and speech allows you to get whatever you want without ever hesitating.

**GalacticDefender**

Jak was kinda like that.... For a while.

**halonachos**

DickBandit wrote:I thought that psychopathy and outright insanity were two different things. Being a psychopath just makes you a manipulative, unreliable donkey-cave. Being completely freakin insane means you suffer from paranoid delusions, hallucinations, panic attacks, and most importantly not being able to process reality from fantasy.

They mix into about the same, the whole ego and manipulation is closer to Narcissism which is a more well defined condition within the broader term. This also brings in the "blame the victim" and "it wasn't my fault" issues, they're also unreliable but its partly to do with the fact that everyone they work with are "incompetents" and they can't stand working with them.

But Shepard had a plan and saw it through, he should've failed and should've kept making the same mistakes over and over again.