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Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I also like Mad Dok, have had decent results fielding him, and I think he's a bit underrated.

 
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

Ah you're right about the BA WLT from Octarius, what a shame :(.
I plan to try mad dok, his ability to fall back and charge sync well with Blood axes. And since his healing is not clan-limited, why not.
   
Made in se
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





Bossdoc wrote:
BigMek Tellyporta WL
Since you need a Warboss as Warlord for Waaagh, this idea is doa imho.
Fair point. Scratching that notion.
   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





United Kingdom

I have a potentially very silly idea: Kan Bomb.

Big "If" for this one, it might need some CP.


5 Killa Kans with Skorchas are 200 points. Between Waaagh and Scrag Em they get 25 attacks at S9, AP-3, D3, hitting on 4s and 5d6 Skorcha shots to help clear chaff in and out of melee. They also have 25 wounds at T5, 3+ save, with Ramshackle and a 5++/6++ under the Waaagh, so they're reasonably beefy.


Kanz kind of fill the same niche as MANz do, so I'll compare the two units.

5 Goff Meganobz with Kombi-Skorchas are also 200 points. Under a Waaagh, on the charge they get 20 attacks at S14, AP-3, D2, also hitting on 4s, and with the same amount of Skorcha shots but at range only. The Klaw damage can be bumped to D3 with Hit Em Harder. They have 15 wounds at T5, 2+ save and a 5++/6++ in Waaagh turns.

S14 is obviously a big boon for the MANz, but S9 will do the job most of the time, and crucially they get more attacks while they keep their numbers up, and they come with D3 as standard. They also get to fire their Skorchas in combat, so there's lots of chaff clearing and chip damage potential. MANz are also slower than Kanz, but have an extra pip of LD.

With Ramming Speed, Kanz get a 3d6" charge and some additional wounds. This makes the charge slightly more reliable than a rerollable 2d6". I'll say that the cost of Ramming Speed is offset by the fact you're likely spending the same CP on Hit Em Harder for the MANz.

If you dump the Kanz up the board with Tellyport, you basically guarantee the charge and they will probably mulch whatever they hit.

I think that Kanz might be a viable choice to replace MANz as a hard hitting bully unit. Get onto an objective and kill whatevers on it, then sit there and fend the opponent off. Less and less of our lists are using HS slots, and Kanz leaves more room for Kommandos. They also replace the points cost of a transport vehicle, and only replace it with CP cost if you want to Tellyport them. Once again, I'll ignore the Ramming Speed/Hit Em Harder CP tax as a point of conparison as you're basically guaranteed to be using them.

Spoiler:
Or you use both
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

There are quite a few reasons why Meganobz are much more reliable.

Ramming Speed costs two CPs, Hit Them Harder just one. Meganobz are elites so there might less issues in finding spared slots than Killa Kanz. Killa Kanz are vehicles which means they bleed VPs through Bring It Down. If a Killa Kan dies there's chance it explodes, damaging another Kan as well. Meganobz have better Ld. Meganobz can take transports or get Da Jumped to get in melee faster while Kanz have to pay CPs to be tellyported. Kanz lose one attack after suffering some casualties. Lastly, there are a couple of ways to give Meganobz objective secured (Deathskulls grant it for free or Freeboters by paying their 1CP stratagem).

The only advantage Kanz have over Meganobz is that they gain the AP bonus in their shooting phase during the Waaagh if Ghaz is the Warlord.

I'm also not a fan of upgrading the Meganobz, I'd keep them as cheap as possible saving points for a transport instead.

Generally speaking I think Kanz are not bad but with the new CP system they're quite hard to include in a list. Two detachments cost too many CPs, with a single battallion it's hard to find room for them, let alone multiple squads, and with a brigade there's already too many points invested in tax units to bring Kanz as well. At this point for a similar role I prefer taking a couple of barebones dreads if I have a free HS slot instead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/28 13:27:39


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Wouldn't Goff meganobs be S12 on the charge during WAAAGH?

It's supposed to be S5*2, then +2, which would be 10+2 or 12, from what I recall.

I am under the impression you've always had to multiply before additive modifiers.

So achieving S14 would only be achievable with a Goff warboss at S6 base.

Still a good point in that case. +1 strength is sort of pointless on klaws, but +2 strength could actually mean something against T6.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in cz
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Prague

I don 't believe on effectivity of the list “make a blob of melee masters and drop them and charge”. Simply because it, s super easy to screen them. Sometimes people play such think with deathiwing terminators or something… the easies matches.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And with 12” range of skorchas you can be pretty much in the position the only awailable target for shooting will be the unit you want charge…

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/28 16:58:30


11000p ready to krump! 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

There is another risk to killakanz dropping in like that vs meganobz - base size
Killakanz are on considerably larger bases, and unfortunately reinforcements arent a mystery (a concept i have been rattling around if it would be a good idea or not) so your opponent knows theres a relatively large footprint unit that needs to be blocked.
Odds are, they wont hit anything important. 200pts for 5 models isnt that bad of a risk though, i used to do something similar with Piranhas (granted, back in the AV days). They were literally there to be in the way and if they got ignored they usually did enough damage anyway

Oh, and lets be honest, what are the kanz going to hit in melee they didnt either butcher or get butchered by that will let them be stuck in combat to fire their skorchas next turn?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/28 18:06:49


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






 Afrodactyl wrote:
I have a potentially very silly idea: Kan Bomb.

Big "If" for this one, it might need some CP.


5 Killa Kans with Skorchas are 200 points...

This definitely seems fun if nothing else.

Something did cross my mind though. Stomp 'em Good lets you score when any ORKS unit kills things in melee, but ignores any losses for GRETCHIN units. That means any attempt to screen this out can still be scoring you VP.
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





United Kingdom

TedNugent wrote:
I am under the impression you've always had to multiply before additive modifiers./quote]

You're correct, and this is another example of why I shouldn't post immediately after night shifts

Tomsug wrote:
And with 12” range of skorchas you can be pretty much in the position the only awailable target for shooting will be the unit you want charge…


For MANz, yeah. But for Kanz you just fire them while in melee for extra damage. And it also gives both units something effective if you decide to overwatch with them.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






What about dreads? Dual or even triple skorcha dreads are still a thing.

I was actually giving a second look at dreads. Are kans better than dreads now? I remember people throwing them in the bin when they lost clan access.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 TedNugent wrote:
What about dreads? Dual or even triple skorcha dreads are still a thing.

I was actually giving a second look at dreads. Are kans better than dreads now? I remember people throwing them in the bin when they lost clan access.


I have had decent result in fielding a couple of full melee dreads. Three is maybe too many points invested in a sub optimal unit and one is probably a waste of an heavy support slot, I found in two models the sweet spot for them. Maybe one with the extra movement kustom job could be nice as well.

Either goffs or big krumpaz if the army is from another klan, both should provide 6 hits in combat. They're not bad for hunting MEQs, TEQs or vehicles that want to get forward, and they can split after deployment giving the ork player extra flexibility in how to use them.

I'd go full melee since it's the cheapest loadout (along with big shootas) and since I'm not a fan of versatile units, unless they come stock with mixed loadout like scrapjets or are really good. With bikes, buggies, dakkajet and eventually even choppas I never needed more anti infantry options so I'd leave to other units the role of clearing chaff. It's the same reason why I always spare points on the meganobz and avoid kombi skorchas on them.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Hum. My experience with kanz is that they actually mesh quite well with infantry lists as they don't stick out like a sore thumb anymore. Their main advantage over MANz is being faster and having some shooting worth anything, if you need some extra rokkits, this is where you get them.
They can be quite strong in melee if they get to fight first, but they struggle against horde units or when affected by -1 to hit. If something that can actually lay down a beating charges them (dreads, nid monsters, daemon princes, war dogs, melee TEQ, you get the idea), they'll just disappear.

Their cheap skorchas are nice when you want to keep them cheap as meatshields for infantry units (kan wall baby!), but not as an offensive strategy - just like the dakkajet, S5 AP-1 isn't solving any of our problems.

As for kanz vs dreads. IMO that depens solely on the list. Dreads die much easier when focuses but fight better and have better guns (KMB). If there are other vehicles in your list that would get priotized over your walkers, use dreads. If not, use kanz. If you are using a speed waaagh!, dreads are better as well because KMB can advance and shoot without penalties.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/29 07:03:12


I present you, the the most misquoted part of all 40k lore:
Genetor Lukas Anzion in Codex Orks, 3rd edition wrote:[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

This is literally all GW ever wrote on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

 Blackie wrote:
There are quite a few reasons why Meganobz are much more reliable.

Ramming Speed costs two CPs, Hit Them Harder just one. Meganobz are elites so there might less issues in finding spared slots than Killa Kanz. Killa Kanz are vehicles which means they bleed VPs through Bring It Down. If a Killa Kan dies there's chance it explodes, damaging another Kan as well. Meganobz have better Ld. Meganobz can take transports or get Da Jumped to get in melee faster while Kanz have to pay CPs to be tellyported. Kanz lose one attack after suffering some casualties. Lastly, there are a couple of ways to give Meganobz objective secured (Deathskulls grant it for free or Freeboters by paying their 1CP stratagem).

The only advantage Kanz have over Meganobz is that they gain the AP bonus in their shooting phase during the Waaagh if Ghaz is the Warlord.

I'm also not a fan of upgrading the Meganobz, I'd keep them as cheap as possible saving points for a transport instead.

Generally speaking I think Kanz are not bad but with the new CP system they're quite hard to include in a list. Two detachments cost too many CPs, with a single battallion it's hard to find room for them, let alone multiple squads, and with a brigade there's already too many points invested in tax units to bring Kanz as well. At this point for a similar role I prefer taking a couple of barebones dreads if I have a free HS slot instead.


hit em harder cost 2CP not 1.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in se
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





Had my first new Data Slate, new CA battle yesterday. I brought a mixed bag of stuff vs Mephrit Necrons.

Deffskulls

MA WL w Cybork Body
Weirdboy
Big Mek w KFF
2 x 12 Choppas Boyz
10 Shootaz
2 x 10 Grotz
4 Manz w Saw
4 Manz w Rokkits/Klaws
10 Kommandos w Bomb Squig
5 Kommandos
2 x 5 Tankbustas w dual Bomb squigs
2 Scrapjets
BW w Deffrolla
KMK Mek Gun
Trukk
Wazbom

Secondaries: Psychic Int, Da Biggest, Good Bitz
------------------------
The plan was triangle play (take 2 mid board objectives and home. Stay there and score) where the WL walks up to an objective and surround's himself with melee lads and the BW whilst the Weirdboy is screened in the second line. I also copied Tuluns excellent idea of Grotz slingshotting through the Trukk onto objectives. 'bustas and Buggies act as reserve and reaction force.

Wazbom acted as the usual distraction allowing me to control 2 mid board objectives for a load of VP. Necrons are boosted, but they fold against new Waaagh! melee and by turn 3 they had fallen back to their deploy except a roaming Night Bringer (singed by Squig Bombs and Rokkits). It was clear that I was to much ahead on points and we ended the match. He picked Treasures, Ancient and Purge which was hard with me swarming all over 2 mid board objectives. As he had to jump between different objectives to do his scoring actions while I could just keep at it by mine he was at the backfoot from start.

Kommandos felt redundant when you don´t care about going over the midline and you can use the Trukk slingshot. They were mostly there for t1 Bitz which didn´t happen. Maybe some sort of Dreads would´ve added more value and helped with the screening.

In general it felt great to have such a coherent scoring plan. I didn´t have to sacrifice units nor spread out all over the board. Looking forward to refining the strategy.
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

 Tomsug wrote:
I don 't believe on effectivity of the list “make a blob of melee masters and drop them and charge”. Simply because it, s super easy to screen them. Sometimes people play such think with deathiwing terminators or something… the easies matches.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And with 12” range of skorchas you can be pretty much in the position the only awailable target for shooting will be the unit you want charge…


i agree. because of their large bases, if they go for scorchas, odds are the front models can maybe scorch something else but their charging target, but the ones standing behind can usually only hit the ones you want to charge. And you cant choose not to fire your weapons once you activate a unit to shoot i believe, so if you want to fire, some of those shots have to go in to your charge target.

At least theres a decent chance of that.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Art of war had an interesting idea. They said speed waaagh is back with ghaz and kff big Mek. Providing multiple turns of army wide 5++.

I like the idea of speed waggh freebooter shooty list option with the extra -1ap on durable buggies again.

Unfortunately I’ve been playing with list builds in battle scribe and I can’t get this list to work. The issue mainly stems from lack of fast atk slots, lack of cp, and the fact squigbuggies suck. Plus secondaries mainly suited for infantry. It feels like the list also lacks enough firepower. Maybe if kustom jobs get reduced or become free I can get a varient to work with double detachments and ghaz. Anyone have any luck designing a decent speed waggh list.
   
Made in cz
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Prague

gungo wrote:
Art of war had an interesting idea. They said speed waaagh is back with ghaz and kff big Mek. Providing multiple turns of army wide 5++.

I like the idea of speed waggh freebooter shooty list option with the extra -1ap on durable buggies again.

Unfortunately I’ve been playing with list builds in battle scribe and I can’t get this list to work. The issue mainly stems from lack of fast atk slots, lack of cp, and the fact squigbuggies suck. Plus secondaries mainly suited for infantry. It feels like the list also lacks enough firepower. Maybe if kustom jobs get reduced or become free I can get a varient to work with double detachments and ghaz. Anyone have any luck designing a decent speed waggh list.


This is an intereting idea I playing with too.
What is important to say:

- scrapjets are the only buggies that really works well. The rest is mediocre.
- however - speedwaagh is not just buggies. There are warbikers, koptas, wagons and trukks, big trakk and Kannonwagon too. And jets of course.
- it is all about the scoring and missions.

I can imagine something like

Ghazzy + makari in supreme command

Outrider
Kff mek
3x grots
3x5 kommandos
3x3 bikers
2x5 koptas
1x2 scrapjets
2x kannonwagon

The clan is however the question. FB +1 to hit is a trap in the age of new Knights codexes imho… but who knows… I have no conclusion jet.

11000p ready to krump! 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Regarding skorchas - didn't burnas go up in value compared to them due to AoC?

I recall that the math was pretty comparable before, now that they ignore AP1 it would seem to favor burnas.

Is putting a unit in a trukk a stupid idea?

Then again, nothing really seems very efficient any more. I don't know, at least they autohit and don't care about AP ignore. So they ignore hit modifiers, don't care about transhuman. That seems like the three bugbears that usually nullify Ork shooting.

Same with the boom blasta.

They didn't get any better, sure, but it seems like everything else kinda got worse.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Tomsug wrote:
Spoiler:
gungo wrote:
Art of war had an interesting idea. They said speed waaagh is back with ghaz and kff big Mek. Providing multiple turns of army wide 5++.

I like the idea of speed waggh freebooter shooty list option with the extra -1ap on durable buggies again.

Unfortunately I’ve been playing with list builds in battle scribe and I can’t get this list to work. The issue mainly stems from lack of fast atk slots, lack of cp, and the fact squigbuggies suck. Plus secondaries mainly suited for infantry. It feels like the list also lacks enough firepower. Maybe if kustom jobs get reduced or become free I can get a varient to work with double detachments and ghaz. Anyone have any luck designing a decent speed waggh list.


This is an intereting idea I playing with too.
What is important to say:

- scrapjets are the only buggies that really works well. The rest is mediocre.
- however - speedwaagh is not just buggies. There are warbikers, koptas, wagons and trukks, big trakk and Kannonwagon too. And jets of course.
- it is all about the scoring and missions.

I can imagine something like

Ghazzy + makari in supreme command

Outrider
Kff mek
3x grots
3x5 kommandos
3x3 bikers
2x5 koptas
1x2 scrapjets
2x kannonwagon

The clan is however the question. FB +1 to hit is a trap in the age of new Knights codexes imho… but who knows… I have no conclusion jet.

Unless you want goff klaw makari is useless except for ghaz…
I really want to see the reliability of freebooter shooting to work again.
I mean wazboms are amazing w freebooter and speedwaagh running. It’s that’s crucial ap-3+ and bs 3/4+ shooting that makes this list work… but its really hard to get it all to work and still compete on secondaries. I mean maybe lootas will work in this list with +1 bs and -1ap w extra shot. But str7 ap-2 bs 4+ isn’t amazing when they need to get the good bits too.
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

gungo wrote:
 Tomsug wrote:
Spoiler:
gungo wrote:
Art of war had an interesting idea. They said speed waaagh is back with ghaz and kff big Mek. Providing multiple turns of army wide 5++.

I like the idea of speed waggh freebooter shooty list option with the extra -1ap on durable buggies again.

Unfortunately I’ve been playing with list builds in battle scribe and I can’t get this list to work. The issue mainly stems from lack of fast atk slots, lack of cp, and the fact squigbuggies suck. Plus secondaries mainly suited for infantry. It feels like the list also lacks enough firepower. Maybe if kustom jobs get reduced or become free I can get a varient to work with double detachments and ghaz. Anyone have any luck designing a decent speed waggh list.


This is an intereting idea I playing with too.
What is important to say:

- scrapjets are the only buggies that really works well. The rest is mediocre.
- however - speedwaagh is not just buggies. There are warbikers, koptas, wagons and trukks, big trakk and Kannonwagon too. And jets of course.
- it is all about the scoring and missions.

I can imagine something like

Ghazzy + makari in supreme command

Outrider
Kff mek
3x grots
3x5 kommandos
3x3 bikers
2x5 koptas
1x2 scrapjets
2x kannonwagon

The clan is however the question. FB +1 to hit is a trap in the age of new Knights codexes imho… but who knows… I have no conclusion jet.

Unless you want goff klaw makari is useless except for ghaz…
I really want to see the reliability of freebooter shooting to work again.
I mean wazboms are amazing w freebooter and speedwaagh running. It’s that’s crucial ap-3+ and bs 3/4+ shooting that makes this list work… but its really hard to get it all to work and still compete on secondaries. I mean maybe lootas will work in this list with +1 bs and -1ap w extra shot. But str7 ap-2 bs 4+ isn’t amazing when they need to get the good bits too.


Lootas wouldnt get -1 extra AP. Speed waaagh AP isnt transfered to transported units. they would hit better though thats true.

Personally, every time ive used freebootas ive always had at least 1 grot mega tank with either Scorchas, rokkits or KMBs. last i used the scorcha that was before AOC so.. im unsure if ill whip that out again, but at least the rokkits work well.

Im still unsure how the damage of KMB to myself works, given it deals 1 wound to me on a roll of 1. Someone once said to me that you can only take 1 damage from each gun, making it painfully slow to roll, others say its every hit roll of 1 that deals damage to me, making it faster to roll all the KMBs at once.

To be honest i dont read it as me being able to only take 1 damage per gun but thats just me.

All in all, the confusion made me go over to rokkits, and Rokkit Grot mega tanks are still good damage, but low survivability. If one can keep them safe with threat saturation they deal good damage. my first GT was a speed waaagh with grot mega tanks and at the time, 3 planes. My Grot mega tanks absolutely tore up drukhari players and others, but my lack of experience got the better end of me in the end.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/29 16:10:09


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Scactha wrote:
Had my first new Data Slate, new CA battle yesterday. I brought a mixed bag of stuff vs Mephrit Necrons.

Deffskulls

MA WL w Cybork Body
Weirdboy
Big Mek w KFF
2 x 12 Choppas Boyz
10 Shootaz
2 x 10 Grotz
4 Manz w Saw
4 Manz w Rokkits/Klaws
10 Kommandos w Bomb Squig
5 Kommandos
2 x 5 Tankbustas w dual Bomb squigs
2 Scrapjets
BW w Deffrolla
KMK Mek Gun
Trukk
Wazbom

Secondaries: Psychic Int, Da Biggest, Good Bitz
------------------------
The plan was triangle play (take 2 mid board objectives and home. Stay there and score) where the WL walks up to an objective and surround's himself with melee lads and the BW whilst the Weirdboy is screened in the second line. I also copied Tuluns excellent idea of Grotz slingshotting through the Trukk onto objectives. 'bustas and Buggies act as reserve and reaction force.

Wazbom acted as the usual distraction allowing me to control 2 mid board objectives for a load of VP. Necrons are boosted, but they fold against new Waaagh! melee and by turn 3 they had fallen back to their deploy except a roaming Night Bringer (singed by Squig Bombs and Rokkits). It was clear that I was to much ahead on points and we ended the match. He picked Treasures, Ancient and Purge which was hard with me swarming all over 2 mid board objectives. As he had to jump between different objectives to do his scoring actions while I could just keep at it by mine he was at the backfoot from start.

Kommandos felt redundant when you don´t care about going over the midline and you can use the Trukk slingshot. They were mostly there for t1 Bitz which didn´t happen. Maybe some sort of Dreads would´ve added more value and helped with the screening.

In general it felt great to have such a coherent scoring plan. I didn´t have to sacrifice units nor spread out all over the board. Looking forward to refining the strategy.


Hey that's funny, I just played Necrons too. Routed him with my Goffs. I got the mission where you can't forward deploy so Good bits was a bit sketch, but I ended up basically tabling him by turn 3 so I likely would have maxed it out. Da Biggest was *very* good on my Tanky squig boss.

List was - Bat / patrol
Beastboss on Squig (warlord, mantle, -1 to wound wlt)
Boss Zagstruck
Weirdboy (warpath, fists of gork)
MA KFF Mek, relic shoota (wouldn't take this again, too short ranged for my liking)
20 snagga boys
20 grots, both 'orrible gits
6 TB, bomb squig
2 individual Mega Tracks
5 Hogs, 1 bomb squig
1 Kannonwagon
2 individual mek guns
1 Truck
19 Stormboyz, 2 Klaws
1 Battlewagon w/ Rolla
1 Kill Rig (frazzle + squigly).

Wasn't super impressed with the weirdboy and MA KFF mek -- I think I'd probably trim off the weirdboy unless I took ghaz. It's so hard to keep him in position to cast powers on something like Dawn of War deployment. I think I'd just downgrade my MA KFF to a regular one, save the 30 points. He's just there for the reactive 5++ anyway.

Necrons really struggle with anti tank even now, and his twin menhirs and 2 HD was not enough to chunk through my armour. The 5++ turn 1 saved my Kill rig, 100% worth it.

I still dislike going 2nd (which I did here) -- it feels like you have a gap in your 5++ invul coverage. You don't wanna Waaaagh *just* for the 5++, you wanna make sure you're connecting multiple charges on that turn which is not guaranteed if they don't feed you units if they go first. I feel like in bad matchups Orks might struggle when they don't go first so you to only get shot once, and you'll have 5++ in the first 2 shooting phases.


The list felt good overall but I think I needed more throw away units. He was cagey and if I had had more grots to throw away to get the mission secondary, or just for screens, I think it would improve the list overall. The savings from dropping the weirdboy + KFF mek could allow me to take another 2 grot squads, or some kommandos (which I was lacking here).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/29 16:14:46


 
   
Made in pt
Yellin' Yoof




tulun wrote:


I still dislike going 2nd (which I did here) -- it feels like you have a gap in your 5++ invul coverage. You don't wanna Waaaagh *just* for the 5++, you wanna make sure you're connecting multiple charges on that turn which is not guaranteed if they don't feed you units if they go first. I feel like in bad matchups Orks might struggle when they don't go first so you to only get shot once, and you'll have 5++ in the first 2 shooting phases.



Have you consider the warlord trait for extra 3 inch on auras? Not sure it works but that's 12 on the stratagem if it works

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/29 16:34:49


 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




Forceride wrote:
tulun wrote:


I still dislike going 2nd (which I did here) -- it feels like you have a gap in your 5++ invul coverage. You don't wanna Waaaagh *just* for the 5++, you wanna make sure you're connecting multiple charges on that turn which is not guaranteed if they don't feed you units if they go first. I feel like in bad matchups Orks might struggle when they don't go first so you to only get shot once, and you'll have 5++ in the first 2 shooting phases.



Have you consider the warlord trait for extra 3 inch on auras? Not sure it works but that's 12 on the stratagem if it works


It doesn't work. KFF specifically mentions it cannot be extended unless it's explicitly said so (IE: by the KFF strat).

What I mean by gap is that I reactively used the 5++ KFF in his first shooting phase, but I didn't call waaagh on the bottom of my turn. It meant that during the top of the 2nd turn I had a gap in my invuls which is awkward.

I wonder if taking Forktress is still useful in this situation as it might often come up.
   
Made in hk
Regular Dakkanaut




Hong Kong

Beardedragon wrote:
Im still unsure how the damage of KMB to myself works, given it deals 1 wound to me on a roll of 1. Someone once said to me that you can only take 1 damage from each gun, making it painfully slow to roll, others say its every hit roll of 1 that deals damage to me, making it faster to roll all the KMBs at once.

To be honest i dont read it as me being able to only take 1 damage per gun but thats just me.

That "someone" is correct.
Maybe with rule comparison you will see the difference.
Here the rule for KMB:
If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon

And here is the rule for an overcharged Ion gun (riptide) :
Each time an unmodified hit roll of 1 is made for an attack with this weapon profile, the bearer’s unit suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon

"if any rolls of 1 are made" = "one or more rolls of 1". So no matter the KMB bearer rolls one or two or three 1s, he will get only 1 MW.
On the other hand, the riptide will take as many MW as it rolls 1s
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Its per gun,

"Blast. If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon."

So if 1 KMB rolls all 1s, its still 1 MW because its "any rolls of 1 after shooting with this weapon"
Different weapons, different "this weapon" instances.

A Deffdread with quad KMBs will have to separate each gun's dice, as he can suffer a max of 4 MW, and depending on which dice rolled what, might only take 1-2 despite many 1s being rolled. One of the many reasons to use multi-colored dice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 02:31:18


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

XC18 wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im still unsure how the damage of KMB to myself works, given it deals 1 wound to me on a roll of 1. Someone once said to me that you can only take 1 damage from each gun, making it painfully slow to roll, others say its every hit roll of 1 that deals damage to me, making it faster to roll all the KMBs at once.

To be honest i dont read it as me being able to only take 1 damage per gun but thats just me.

That "someone" is correct.
Maybe with rule comparison you will see the difference.
Here the rule for KMB:
If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon

And here is the rule for an overcharged Ion gun (riptide) :
Each time an unmodified hit roll of 1 is made for an attack with this weapon profile, the bearer’s unit suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon

"if any rolls of 1 are made" = "one or more rolls of 1". So no matter the KMB bearer rolls one or two or three 1s, he will get only 1 MW.
On the other hand, the riptide will take as many MW as it rolls 1s


guess you learn something new everyday.

Thanks buddy while its good, it also takes an awefully long time to shoot all 7 KMBs at a tournament though

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

tulun wrote:


What I mean by gap is that I reactively used the 5++ KFF in his first shooting phase, but I didn't call waaagh on the bottom of my turn. It meant that during the top of the 2nd turn I had a gap in my invuls which is awkward.

I wonder if taking Forktress is still useful in this situation as it might often come up.


I think it is. I've played exploding KFF and a forktress wagon pretty much the entire edition and the issue with KFF (even with 2) is that it has a small footprint and at 2000 points there's a lot of stuff you want under the bubble. So, having a valuable model that is permanently shielded regardless of where the KFF is positioned is very useful, and it's not like 20 points are going to really change anything if they are spared.

I'd also call the waaagh turn 2 to maximize the offensive abilities. Calling it turn 1 just for the 5++ seems like a waste.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Its per gun,

"Blast. If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon."

So if 1 KMB rolls all 1s, its still 1 MW because its "any rolls of 1 after shooting with this weapon"
Different weapons, different "this weapon" instances.

A Deffdread with quad KMBs will have to separate each gun's dice, as he can suffer a max of 4 MW, and depending on which dice rolled what, might only take 1-2 despite many 1s being rolled. One of the many reasons to use multi-colored dice.


Yes, thankfully it's only 1 per gun....
The other day I armed a Mega-Tank with all KMB. My Grots were so excited when I let rip with nearly max shots! Surely the target was about to vaporize. And then I rolled incredibly poorly to hit. Had it not been for that cap I'd have killed my tank & still had damage left over. As was I only crippled the poor tank.
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






 Afrodactyl wrote:
I have a potentially very silly idea: Kan Bomb.

Big "If" for this one, it might need some CP.


5 Killa Kans with Skorchas are 200 points. Between Waaagh and Scrag Em they get 25 attacks at S9, AP-3, D3, hitting on 4s and 5d6 Skorcha shots to help clear chaff in and out of melee. They also have 25 wounds at T5, 3+ save, with Ramshackle and a 5++/6++ under the Waaagh, so they're reasonably beefy.


Kanz kind of fill the same niche as MANz do, so I'll compare the two units.

5 Goff Meganobz with Kombi-Skorchas are also 200 points. Under a Waaagh, on the charge they get 20 attacks at S14, AP-3, D2, also hitting on 4s, and with the same amount of Skorcha shots but at range only. The Klaw damage can be bumped to D3 with Hit Em Harder. They have 15 wounds at T5, 2+ save and a 5++/6++ in Waaagh turns.

S14 is obviously a big boon for the MANz, but S9 will do the job most of the time, and crucially they get more attacks while they keep their numbers up, and they come with D3 as standard. They also get to fire their Skorchas in combat, so there's lots of chaff clearing and chip damage potential. MANz are also slower than Kanz, but have an extra pip of LD.

With Ramming Speed, Kanz get a 3d6" charge and some additional wounds. This makes the charge slightly more reliable than a rerollable 2d6". I'll say that the cost of Ramming Speed is offset by the fact you're likely spending the same CP on Hit Em Harder for the MANz.

If you dump the Kanz up the board with Tellyport, you basically guarantee the charge and they will probably mulch whatever they hit.

I think that Kanz might be a viable choice to replace MANz as a hard hitting bully unit. Get onto an objective and kill whatevers on it, then sit there and fend the opponent off. Less and less of our lists are using HS slots, and Kanz leaves more room for Kommandos. They also replace the points cost of a transport vehicle, and only replace it with CP cost if you want to Tellyport them. Once again, I'll ignore the Ramming Speed/Hit Em Harder CP tax as a point of conparison as you're basically guaranteed to be using them.

Spoiler:
Or you use both


Manz are not s14. Modificators add up after multiplicators now.
And kanz are fun and all but 5 kanz are 5 VP for your enemy. And you're likely running other vehicles alongside. So, unfortunately, of you're taking things like mek guns, buggies, koptaz or, even worse, trukks, wagons or rigs, I'd not take even more easy-tp-kill vehicles.
   
 
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