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Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 koooaei wrote:

And kanz are fun and all but 5 kanz are 5 VP for your enemy. And you're likely running other vehicles alongside. So, unfortunately, of you're taking things like mek guns, buggies, koptaz or, even worse, trukks, wagons or rigs, I'd not take even more easy-tp-kill vehicles.


Well, generally speaking yes, kanz are easy VPs. But if you bring a list that already guarantees max VPs for killing vehicles that's the one time I'd say kanz are legit there. I think bringing potential 15 VPs for bring it down is worse than bringing 18-25.

 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

How would you use kanz though? I always deepstriked (deepstruck? what ever) Kanz in. Walking them up the board seems really dangerous. Same goes for Deff Dreads honestly.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I've only played as distractions or "why not?" units and because I loathe spamming the same stuff over and over again. So if I wanted a list that was based on tons of vehicles and just some MSU to do actions, adding dreads and/or kanz along all the other vehicles didn't seem a bad idea. The opponent could typically ignore them and in that case they might get their points back or focus on them saving more valuable vehicles. Of couse they were never the best option but I refuse to play skew builds based around 3 kill rigs, 5 planes, 10-15 koptas, or 9 squigbuggies (or buggies in general).

I've never tried investing deep in walkers though, like deepstriking them or paying 200+ points.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 09:51:03


 
   
Made in fr
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






Beardedragon wrote:
XC18 wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Im still unsure how the damage of KMB to myself works, given it deals 1 wound to me on a roll of 1. Someone once said to me that you can only take 1 damage from each gun, making it painfully slow to roll, others say its every hit roll of 1 that deals damage to me, making it faster to roll all the KMBs at once.

To be honest i dont read it as me being able to only take 1 damage per gun but thats just me.

That "someone" is correct.
Maybe with rule comparison you will see the difference.
Here the rule for KMB:
If any unmodified hit rolls of 1 are made for attacks with this weapon, the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon

And here is the rule for an overcharged Ion gun (riptide) :
Each time an unmodified hit roll of 1 is made for an attack with this weapon profile, the bearer’s unit suffers 1 mortal wound after shooting with this weapon

"if any rolls of 1 are made" = "one or more rolls of 1". So no matter the KMB bearer rolls one or two or three 1s, he will get only 1 MW.
On the other hand, the riptide will take as many MW as it rolls 1s


guess you learn something new everyday.

Thanks buddy while its good, it also takes an awefully long time to shoot all 7 KMBs at a tournament though


You need to have different colored dice, at least 6 of each color. Orks is one of these armies that requires preparation when playing with the clock. Thoses KMB shots won't use up much extra clock if you have these special pools of 6 dice. Of course if you have a model with 7 KMBs like the grot super tank then its less convenient, but still works, just have a box of 7 colors (6 dice per color)

Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





United Kingdom

Beardedragon wrote:
How would you use kanz though? I always deepstriked (deepstruck? what ever) Kanz in. Walking them up the board seems really dangerous. Same goes for Deff Dreads honestly.


You could probably get away with walking them if you're already running a vehicle heavy list, as a kind of second wave to clear out objective the buggies and koptas have already softened. Maybe the same if you have an alpha strike list and if you can get enemy threats tied up turn one.

But in most cases you're probably DSing them in.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






You know, the whole 5++ WAAAGH rule does kind of make me question why they couldn't have just left the KFF alone.

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 TedNugent wrote:
You know, the whole 5++ WAAAGH rule does kind of make me question why they couldn't have just left the KFF alone.

There was an obvious push from 8th to 9th to make horde spam less viable in order to speed up the game.

It’s a direct result of tournament horde armies going to time or unable to fit in 5 rounds because of the inherent slowness of horde armies. They hammered greentide because of this removing greentide strat, busting up morale, discouraging units of 10+ w blast, removing the +1 atk on 20+ models etc, reducing kff range/amount, and reducing fnp range… guard was hit just as hard…

I’m not against using competitive tournaments for balance I think it produces a better game. Beginning of 8th was great and I think (minus sisters) we are heading to a very well balanced season (6months).. and I’m actually fine with Gw shooting for 2:45 min 5rd 2,000 pt games but there was a better way to do this then butchering horde style of play. Start with reducing excessive rolls (like goff extra hit on 6; now changed), issues like kmb above…etc.
   
Made in it
Krazed Killa Kan






Then why bring back 5++ and leave Painboy FNP in the game?

Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak. 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

its true though, there certainly was a push to make armies less horde focused. Whether it was because people couldnt finish the game within 3 hours when using hordes, or people hated playing against them i dont know.

But there certainly has been a push to make it less appealing. Its just in a weird state right now where you still can without fully being able to, and you are being punished heavily for trying.

Like, you can use 30 grots, but you essentially hardcore shoot yourself in the foot if you do so. You can go for 30 boys, but theres no bonus to be found doing so, and your morale is garbage now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
that reminds me. what actually happens if you use the tankbusta bomb stratagem with goffs and land a 6? anything at all? double hits?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/30 15:29:46


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





Beardedragon wrote:

that reminds me. what actually happens if you use the tankbusta bomb stratagem with goffs and land a 6? anything at all? double hits?


Well it says if a hit is scored the unit gets 2D3 mortals and the attack sequence ends.
I don`t think its intended to do 4D3 and thats how i play it, but it is kinda wordy so you might clear it up with your opponent.
Technically the extra attack has it`s own attack sequence, i don`t think that special scenario is covered by any FAQ.
You could argue the strat does only work for this single attack so you would get an additional hit without Mortals which is weird as well but at least does not do 4D3 Mortals.^^
   
Made in ru
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Beardedragon wrote:
How would you use kanz though? I always deepstriked (deepstruck? what ever) Kanz in. Walking them up the board seems really dangerous. Same goes for Deff Dreads honestly.


I've run 2 squads of 3 goff kanz alongside ghaz and makari. They were scoring and did some minor damage in mellee. We're not too bad in that list actually. But they hugely depend on how well you roll those advance rolls.

I've tried different loadouts:
Rokkits seem one of the best options on paper but in real games I've found that a couple extra inches from advances have been more beneficial overall. They have decent mellee and 3d3 rokkit shots from slow platforms for 115 pts is nothing to write home about. You got other rokkit sources for this job. So, unless you're planning to face a bunch of -1 to-hit multi-wound enemies, I'd not spend extra pts okln kan rokkits.

Shootas are ok in a sense that you don't spend extra, so, it's fine. And they can do some ap2 shooting across the board to push a wound or two somewhere during that SPEEDWAAAGH turn.

Skorchas generally don't shoot turn 1 but allow you to advance and shoot t2 or t1 if the opponent closes distance and you get some good advances. They don't do much, ofc, but hey, flamers are okish. They can even fire some overwatch if you have the points.

All in all, there is not much of a difference but I prefer skorchas. Or shootas for when you don't have any points at all.
Kanz are a mediocre unit overall that doesn't do much, however, they can have their uses and are not terrible like they used to be. Especially with ap2 shooting during speedwagh. Don't expect them to do much but they can score you a couple points (and loose some due to hemorrhaging VP for bring it down).

Due to their speed and overall stats they're mostly useful In mixed lists.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Hmm the Gw app removed kustom jobs cost. I don’t know if this means kustom jobs are free… but it’s interesting if they are.. I don’t think it changes much if they are but there are some interesting options now that previously sucked but got a bit more points efficient..

A klaw deffdread (or Krumpa gorkanaut) with stompa pistons is just a cool addition to a list.

A single nitrosquig squigbuggy is no longer the worst buggy…

Shokk atk gun w runtsucka isnt bad for the points…

Boomer Gunwagon is just as viable as kannonwagon..

Shokkahull on frazzle Killrig is fun

MAN missle forktress got a bit easier to deliver..

More Dakka Dakkajet might be decent w speedwaagh instead of wazbom…

If they are free im still not sure this makes speedwaagh viable again but it makes things better. It does open up more options and might slightly upgrade goff pressure orks into at least top of B tier.

   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




It's a real nice upgrade that makes burna boyz okish - 10 pts per Model vor Flamer, MW in Cc and optional Ap -2 is decent, especially with DS obsec, they seem better than boys or even snaggas. 3 Trukkboy Manz + 5 or 6 Burnas in a single trukk might work...
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






That's really awesome actually, stuff like zzapkrumpas or red rolla are decent upgrades but were not worth their points up till now.

It's also great for crusade if it gets transferred over to PL, the scrap mechanic would no longer be worthless and there is an actual incentive to get a mek workshop.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
Hmm the Gw app removed kustom jobs cost. I don’t know if this means kustom jobs are free…


It literally says "0PT" in my app - costs haven't been removed, they have been set to 0.

Proof:
Spoiler:

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/07/01 10:23:31


I present you, the the most misquoted part of all 40k lore:
Genetor Lukas Anzion in Codex Orks, 3rd edition wrote:[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

This is literally all GW ever wrote on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jidmah wrote:
That's rally awesome actually, stuff like zzapkrumpas or red rolla are decent upgrades but were not worth their points up till now.

It's also great for crusade if it gets transferred over to PL, the scrap mechanic would no longer be worthless and there is an actual incentive to get a mek workshop.

Ya that’s the way I see it..
If this is legitimate change it doesn’t make me want to change my list to add something else but it makes the units I need to take a bit more useful..
I’m not going to all of a sudden take a bonebreaka just because red rolla is free but if I wanted to take one it wouldn’t suck as much as it did before.
The army of renown while still not great in nephilim is a lot more fun with a dual outrider and 1 of every buggy and all the extra kustom jobs (including the speedmob versions).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Jidmah wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
Hmm the Gw app removed kustom jobs cost. I don’t know if this means kustom jobs are free…


It literally says "0PT" in my app - costs haven't been removed, they have been set to 0.

Isn’t that the same thing? Someone made them free…

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/07/01 10:24:59


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Removing points would simply mean the points flag is gone, similar to Specialist Mobs. This could be a bug or an error - similar to how we were kept guessing after the PDF release.

This is explicitly stating that their cost is 0 with no room for interpretation or arguments.

I present you, the the most misquoted part of all 40k lore:
Genetor Lukas Anzion in Codex Orks, 3rd edition wrote:[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

This is literally all GW ever wrote on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I'd hate free kustom jobs to be honest.

Free kustom jobs are simply more bloat: now we have to keep track of a dozen buffs that have become auto take and still don't really change anything significantly.

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The vast majority of them are abilities that should be in their corresponding datasheets anyways.

I present you, the the most misquoted part of all 40k lore:
Genetor Lukas Anzion in Codex Orks, 3rd edition wrote:[...] To the Ork, the only conceivable explanation for this is that the vehicle travels faster because it is red. However, as disturbing as it sounds, these 'facts' become true. Red Ork vehicles do travel perceptibly faster than those of other colors, even when all other design aspects are nominally the same. Similarly, many captured Ork weapons and items of equipment should not work, and indeed do not work unless wielded by an Ork. I believe this is linked to the strong psychic aura surrounding all Orkoids and have developed the Anzion Theorem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics. I theorise that many Ork inventions work because the Orks themselves think that they should work. The strong telekinetic abilities of the Ork's subconscious somehow ensures that the machinery or weaponry functions as desired.

This is literally all GW ever wrote on this topic - everything else is meme knowledge 
   
Made in cz
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Prague

Free Kustom jobs are nice. But….

Do you guys take official GW app as a reliable source of information? There are bugs all the time and mostly not fixed for the long time as I understand.

11000p ready to krump! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I mean they didn’t include them in the points update either… how many times do we brush it off as a mistake? It seems as jidmah said someone taking the effort to manually change kustom job points cost and remove them all is a bit more intentional..

This sounds like the atk out of da sun issue people just would not accept it as working as intended even 6 months after it’s release. After all other books were errata’d, the book was discontinued, tournaments were allowing it RAW and still people argued it’s a mistake.

However I agree and hope this is a preview of a potential faq/errata release that’s due any moment.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/07/01 11:07:27


 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

Well. my battlescribe doesnt make kustom jobs free at least. And its not really a GW source either so theres that, but GWs app has made many mistakes in the past.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Been Around the Block




Well, when I checked immediately after the points update pdf, they still had rhe points cost. With the latest update from 27. June, they set the points cost to zero. Seems like an active decision for me...
   
Made in cz
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Prague

gungo wrote:
I mean they didn’t include them in the points update either… how many times do we brush it off as a mistake? It seems as jidmah said someone taking the effort to manually change kustom job points cost and remove them all is a bit more intentional..

This sounds like the atk out of da sun issue people just would not accept it as working as intended even 6 months after it’s release. After all other books were errata’d, the book was discontinued, tournaments were allowing it RAW and still people argued it’s a mistake.

However I agree and hope this is a preview of a potential faq/errata release that’s due any moment.


Could be…

11000p ready to krump! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Beardedragon wrote:
Well. my battlescribe doesnt make kustom jobs free at least. And its not really a GW source either so theres that, but GWs app has made many mistakes in the past.


I mean Manually changing point cost to zero seems a bit more than a mistake and more intentional but it’s possible the app team just wasted 5 min of thier time making those changes by accident.
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

gungo wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Well. my battlescribe doesnt make kustom jobs free at least. And its not really a GW source either so theres that, but GWs app has made many mistakes in the past.


I mean Manually changing point cost to zero seems a bit more than a mistake and more intentional but it’s possible the app team just wasted 5 min of thier time making those changes by accident.


i agree, but i think waiting for some kind of explaination might b better than to expect this to be the case and roll with it. Im just saying, they have made mistakes in the past, especially with the GW app. I think ill hold off trying to call this an actual thing untill they make a statement of a sort. Because if it was the case, I would assume they would put it in that quarterly update, where they explain that they are now free.

But they didnt.

Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in gb
Boosting Space Marine Biker




UK

Beardedragon wrote:
gungo wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Well. my battlescribe doesnt make kustom jobs free at least. And its not really a GW source either so theres that, but GWs app has made many mistakes in the past.


I mean Manually changing point cost to zero seems a bit more than a mistake and more intentional but it’s possible the app team just wasted 5 min of thier time making those changes by accident.


i agree, but i think waiting for some kind of explaination might b better than to expect this to be the case and roll with it. Im just saying, they have made mistakes in the past, especially with the GW app. I think ill hold off trying to call this an actual thing untill they make a statement of a sort. Because if it was the case, I would assume they would put it in that quarterly update, where they explain that they are now free.

But they didnt.
Probably a mistake, but the munitorum field manual does not list any of the upgrades - so following the current trend of not listed = free it's technically correct.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I mean I been playing with the list building in BattleScribe and free kustom jobs doesn’t really make me want to change any lists…
All kustom jobs do is prevent unit spamming… I do like stuff like the shokk atk gun not because it’s great but it now has the stats it should have always had without being overpriced. And a stompa piston klaw deffdred just seems fun. I hope this is legit it might bring out a little more variety in what is shaping up to be a season with very limited selection of competitive list viability.

Right now goff pressure (or bloodaxe) is the only competitive list that seems to be decent and shokka hull or squig tires on Killrig is the only tangible upgrade there.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/07/01 12:25:46


 
   
Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

 Insularum wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
gungo wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
Well. my battlescribe doesnt make kustom jobs free at least. And its not really a GW source either so theres that, but GWs app has made many mistakes in the past.


I mean Manually changing point cost to zero seems a bit more than a mistake and more intentional but it’s possible the app team just wasted 5 min of thier time making those changes by accident.


i agree, but i think waiting for some kind of explaination might b better than to expect this to be the case and roll with it. Im just saying, they have made mistakes in the past, especially with the GW app. I think ill hold off trying to call this an actual thing untill they make a statement of a sort. Because if it was the case, I would assume they would put it in that quarterly update, where they explain that they are now free.

But they didnt.
Probably a mistake, but the munitorum field manual does not list any of the upgrades - so following the current trend of not listed = free it's technically correct.


i guess, but not even battlescribe have gotten that Memo. But then again, i still pay 3CP to run a super heavy auxillary detatchment when it should be free so.. yea.. You are right though, its technically free.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/07/01 12:42:30


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in gb
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





United Kingdom

I have emailed GW for clarification whether it is intended or a bug. I'll post back here once I've got an answer
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Good luck waiting for the response.. you’d have better luck shaking a magic 8 ball for answers…
   
 
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