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Hey Dakka,

Ive recetnly regained interest in returning to play 8th edition Warhammer, however I need some assistance in picking an army.
A few things first. I will be playing at 2500 points, I don't generally use special characters, and I don't want to use an army which my friends are already using.

Armies which I will be playing against amongst friends (we're all in our mid 20's)

Empire
Dark Elves
Tomb Kings
Warriors of Chaos
Ogre Kingdoms
Dwarves

I'd like to create a list which could be taken to a tourney, but isn't going to be mega cheese (I like a hard, yet fair game)
I'm not really interested in playing Bretonnia, Daemons of Chaos or Beasts of Chaos. (nothing against them, just dont like their look and feel)

That leaves me with:

High Elves
Wood Elves
Lizardmen
Orcs & Goblins
Vampire Counts
Skaven

Out of which, the following leaps out at me:

High Elves
Lizardmen
Orcs & Goblins
Skaven

Anyone able to present a case in support of any of these armies? I know roughly their playstyle (HE = Elite, Lizardmen = all rounders, O&G = CC horde, Skaven = zerg rush)
Some advice would be awesome, and possibly how each fares typically in tourny scenes (if i decide to foray into them at a later date)

Well all these armies are competitive so you dont have anything to worry about there.

The best bang for your buck is the Iob set by far and if money is something you dont wan to spend a ton on well then go with one of the armies that comes in there as in HE or skaven.

Buy a set or 2 and trade the other half the ones you dont want for someones part that they dont want as in buy 1 set of iob say you want skaven trade HE and then you have 2 sets of the skaven from iob, the mini rule book and you have a good start.
I think lots of people will agree with me buying 2 sets for skaven is a good buy.

Lizards are a magic heavy army that are tough but really need the magic support usually of the slaan mages.

HE are both fighty and magicy even without characters they are competitive.
Sword masters phoenix guard and white lions will carry the army mostly with support from mages.

O&G there are so many combinations and so much you can do with them that you picking models that you like is the only thing I can say for that.

Skaven you can play a shooty army a more cc army either way there will be lots of rats so having lots of the buggers is not a bad idea.
WLC and the HPA are pretty nice to have as well as support from the cheap characters and fun magic items is good times.
Who dosnt love some little rat with brass orb and magic carpet flying up to a unit and being all ok initiative test or your dead.

So ya lots of choices.

Hope this helped a bit.

IoB is a good start - Assuming you go for that, and so HE or Skaven, How are you on painting?

I have started a skaven army recently, and have found a pretty effective painting style that's basically just foundation paints and washes that gives a good look but is very quick - good when you have all these massive blocks of rats to paint

Whereas HE really need a neater style.

Thanks for the replies,

My TK friend is something of an artist, so she has agreed to help me out painting-wise, which is good

I suppose its down to personal preference, on playstyle and 'look and feel'?

Whilst I think the slann are cool, I guess they appear slightly...sluggish for a powerful wizard.
The slann remind me of a miniature Buddha, so wise and powerful, yet too introspective to really be taking notice of the battle raging around them.

HE, Skaven and O&G all have dynamic poses in their leaders, so I'll take a look at them.

I'd paint up HE with red and gold as a distinctive difference from the standard silver and blue I always see. Playing along the Phoenix theme.

Orcs I'm undecided between mostly orcs, or mostly goblins...any help here?

Skaven, do they run the risk of all mostly looking the same? Black and brown? I'd love to run scouts as albinos, but how much room is there for the rank and file to stand out?
The steampunk aspect of their war machines etc is appealing...glowing warpstone-fueled carnage is win

Any more input would be good, either from a playstyle or painting side of things.

i can answer your question about orcs:

ANYFIN YER LIKE!

you could go with only orcs, only goblins, mostly orcs, mostly goblins or a healthy mix of each! the possibilities are endless! (well maybe not)

I wouldn't discount Lizardmen. They're really fun to play, a very tough army, and don't necessarily need a ton of magic to make them potent. I'd argue that a block of Saurus warriors with Shields and Spears is one of the most formidable blocks of infantry in the game.

iLLiTHiD wrote:Thanks for the replies,

My TK friend is something of an artist, so she has agreed to help me out painting-wise, which is good

I suppose its down to personal preference, on playstyle and 'look and feel'?

Whilst I think the slann are cool, I guess they appear slightly...sluggish for a powerful wizard.
The slann remind me of a miniature Buddha, so wise and powerful, yet too introspective to really be taking notice of the battle raging around them.

HE, Skaven and O&G all have dynamic poses in their leaders, so I'll take a look at them.

I'd paint up HE with red and gold as a distinctive difference from the standard silver and blue I always see. Playing along the Phoenix theme.

Orcs I'm undecided between mostly orcs, or mostly goblins...any help here?

Skaven, do they run the risk of all mostly looking the same? Black and brown? I'd love to run scouts as albinos, but how much room is there for the rank and file to stand out?
The steampunk aspect of their war machines etc is appealing...glowing warpstone-fueled carnage is win

Any more input would be good, either from a playstyle or painting side of things.

well part of this decision is how much money you have to spend.

but honestly any of these 4 can be competative but they all have their advantages and disadvantages. you summarized them nicely so pick the play style you like the most.

high elves : special choices and magic carry them imho to many people over look high magic.
lizardmen : tough units with excellent magic support (the big disadvantage is that 95% of slann are life or light to be competative so people know whats coming)
O&G : really the largest variety of builds that can work but yes CC hordes
skaven : not really spectacular at anything but nothing is really bad either. but probably the highest $ cost to buy because of the number of basic rats.

lixulana wrote:well part of this decision is how much money you have to spend.

but honestly any of these 4 can be competative but they all have their advantages and disadvantages. you summarized them nicely so pick the play style you like the most.

high elves : special choices and magic carry them imho to many people over look high magic.
lizardmen : tough units with excellent magic support (the big disadvantage is that 95% of slann are life or light to be competative so people know whats coming)
O&G : really the largest variety of builds that can work but yes CC hordes
skaven : not really spectacular at anything but nothing is really bad either. but probably the highest $ cost to buy because of the number of basic rats.

As far as money is concerned, I've got a full time job so it isn't *too* much of an issue, though its not something I want to blow thousands on. I admit that is one thing that is going in favour of the more smaller armies, is less models to buy...that got me looking at sites like Mantic Games to see if their Orcs or Elves would be usable as substitutes for some or all of the models...though it does seem a shame to be substituting so many models (which in some cases, look drastically different to citadel miniatures)...if it were to be done it would have to maintain a semi-balance of look and feel.
It could help reduce the overpriced models (im in Australia, so I'm subjected to GW's racist, Euro-centric world view of embargoing everyone else despite the fact we're long-time loyal customers )

cincydooley wrote:I wouldn't discount Lizardmen. They're really fun to play, a very tough army, and don't necessarily need a ton of magic to make them potent. I'd argue that a block of Saurus warriors with Shields and Spears is one of the most formidable blocks of infantry in the game.

iLLiTHiD wrote:Thanks for the replies,

My TK friend is something of an artist, so she has agreed to help me out painting-wise, which is good

I suppose its down to personal preference, on playstyle and 'look and feel'?

Whilst I think the slann are cool, I guess they appear slightly...sluggish for a powerful wizard.
The slann remind me of a miniature Buddha, so wise and powerful, yet too introspective to really be taking notice of the battle raging around them.

HE, Skaven and O&G all have dynamic poses in their leaders, so I'll take a look at them.

I'd paint up HE with red and gold as a distinctive difference from the standard silver and blue I always see. Playing along the Phoenix theme.

Orcs I'm undecided between mostly orcs, or mostly goblins...any help here?

Skaven, do they run the risk of all mostly looking the same? Black and brown? I'd love to run scouts as albinos, but how much room is there for the rank and file to stand out?
The steampunk aspect of their war machines etc is appealing...glowing warpstone-fueled carnage is win

Any more input would be good, either from a playstyle or painting side of things.

I like Lizardmen, really...I do. I've done a degree in history and even wrote an exhibition research proposal for Aztec culture. I can see that in the army and it's awesome... but frankly the Slann as a model is very...uninspiring. I'd much rather see a Quetzalcoatl or something, resplendent with colourful plumes and scales than a...fat toad. This is a game of exciting battles not a meditation weekend retreat
But from what I've read, if you were to take an Old-blood instead, and run some Skink Priests...you'd be seriously gimping any sort of competitiveness amongst the Lizardmen army.

Which leads me to my next point...

big mek crazygit wrote:i can answer your question about orcs:

ANYFIN YER LIKE!

you could go with only orcs, only goblins, mostly orcs, mostly goblins or a healthy mix of each! the possibilities are endless! (well maybe not)

Orcs..I really love their whacky and wild character. One thing I love is the Wyvern model (as well as the star/moon/sun dragon). I previously played in 5th/6th edition, where it was HeroHammer and all you used to see was these bad boys rocking on the biggest monster they could find. I understand now the game has evolved and 8th is all about the rank and file...I love that this is where it really should be focused, on the *tactics* of war...but I would love to see a boss on a Wyvern crashing down amongst the foes, or a prince on a Moon dragon. They are a brilliant centrepiece of the army, and really give it a theme of 'legendary'....is it even possible to field these units competitively? At *All*?

if you want to use it, use it!

i doubt that a giant is competitive, but i still brought one and uses it because its cool! dont let the competitivey tingy back you down!

besides, only the baddest warboss can tame a wyvern, even though its a baby! though if im wrong, still do it!

Warning on skaven.... the mass of brown fur painting will drive you crazy.
I find Night goblin more soothing to paint despite the same horde number.

I highly recommend Lizardmen.
Versatile
TONS of variety.
Tons of color option ( they are tropical lizards after all with tons of decoration )
They are also very strong.

In my gaming group we have each of these armies covered actually!

I play High Elves. They can be quite unforgiving at times due to low toughness and being lightly armoured, but they are also extremely agile and have a couple of units who are utterly devastating in combat. Can go magic heavy and spam the hell out of Life in particular which can produce devastating results.
One thing i love about our gaming group is when we swap armies. Iv played with all my mates armies and must say iv probably been the most impressed with Lizardmen from a power perspective, but definitely had the most fun with Skaven.
Theres something really liberating about sending a few bolts of warp lightning into a combat with your own units... especially after playing High Elves where you feel it every time you lose an elf...
What I did like the most about Skaven and O&G's tho is how completely random they can be. But i guess these games were all in super-casual mode... it would be really frustrating in a competitive setting.

The thing you need to figure out is what is the make or break factor thats going to seal the deal for you?
It seems you want to play an army capable of tournament-grade lists, so you'll be happy to know that these 4 armies are all capable of certain power lists and there are also a lot of great painting opportunities within these armies.

Theres really no substitute for playing games... id say give each army a test run with proxies or at your FLGS and go with your heart! As lame as that sounds I reckon youv got to play an army that appeals to you from a fluff/aesthetic side as well as whats going to be powerful.

Actually, how are dwarves in 8th? Are are they all gunline armies?

Dwarfs can be gun line they do it quite well.
They can be cc army since they are strong tough high ws and good armor.
So you can do either or a combo and have success.