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GW - Do it.


YOU want more money, this is something that would definitely start to bring people like me back, having sweet huge terminators that I don't have to order shoulder pads from Europe to make.
Plus all the cool old tech, I see focusing on this era would bring in the cash for them for sure.

AND producing the miniatures for it.

Instead of 6th edition and 17653 edition Codex Space Marine

I think that this is a good idea. Maby not a 6th edition but more like an expansion pack.

I think that with all the interest in the HH books and the number of other companies who produce conversion bits aimed at just this kind of thing, GW are missing a trick here.

If they can have specialised rules for stuff that FW produce, a rulebook and some specialised character minis and bits would go down a storm.

I recall reading on this forum about a guy whose cousin knows a guy at GW (that sort of thing) who said something along the lines of HH figures and models being their "Ace in the hole." They know there is demand for it, but until the company is in dire straights, they'll hold off on it.

Not sure I buy it, though.

I heard from a couple of sources that apparently there was a top-level discussion about it some years ago, just as the HH series was taking off. Specifically, there was even work done on a 'pre-heresy' sprue. However, the decision was made not to 'split' the universe into 30,000 and 40,000 varients and potentially confuse the player base.

The 'pre-heresy sprue' work was then apparently split and used for various other bits and pieces, for some of the AoBR tactical marines and the Blood Angels. Perhaps realising that it is indeed a market, and there is money to be made, FW has done various armour marks, weapons and now vehicles. However, you will note those products are still listed as being 'Warhammer 40,000', even if the name acknowledges a pre-heresy design. They are also designed to fit in with FW's campaign books (IA 9 and 10 for instance) and the Badab war, which is decidedly post heresy. Apparently termies are on the way too.

I've been made aware of this info as I have been really into pre-heresy for some time (check out my sig), and have heard the above info off several different people over the last few years.

All of that being said, to the OP there is a lot of fan-made rules and codecies which focus on pre-heresy (check out the Tempus Fugitives ruleset for one of the most comprehensively tested and characterful). On the other hand, if custom rules aren't your thing it's fairly easy to modify current codecies for your pre-heresy legion of choice; Blood Angels are practically crying out to be re-labelled as World Eaters, and with a bit of work Grey Knights are popular to be subbed in as Thousand Sons. Just requires a bit of imagination, research into what weapon/wargear/vehicles were or were not available during that period, and then self-restraint in creating a characterful and accurate pre-heresy army.

It's definitely worth the effort I think, and there is a great little sub-community out there support that little niche of the 40k hobby.

theQuanz wrote:
Instead of ... 17653 edition Codex Space Marine

Except anything pre-heresy is just another Marine codex.

theQuanz wrote:GW - Do it.


YOU want more money, this is something that would definitely start to bring people like me back, having sweet huge terminators that I don't have to order shoulder pads from Europe to make.
Plus all the cool old tech, I see focusing on this era would bring in the cash for them for sure.

AND producing the miniatures for it.

Instead of 6th edition and 17653 edition Codex Space Marine

You really didn't take much time thinking this through, did you? What do you think the primary focus of a pre-heresy book would be, Tau?

Anyway, if you're jonesing for a pre-heresy fix, the current wave of kits from Forge World seems like a prtty strong indicator that they will be doing a HH era book at some point.

Oh I did, and I am quite aware the focus would be Space Marines...what I meant is they don't need anything NEW, in the sense that going backwards with them is preferable to going forward in the timeline.

It would potentially be an era to ADD races to the mix as well, keeping the same universe, just expanding on it.
They could create brand new lines with a ton of new miniatures for the masses to add to their collections. AKA Slann

I would prefer to see something like this is all I am saying vrs more revisions of the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pacific wrote:
All of that being said, to the OP there is a lot of fan-made rules and codecies which focus on pre-heresy (check out the Tempus Fugitives ruleset for one of the most comprehensively tested and characterful). On the other hand, if custom rules aren't your thing it's fairly easy to modify current codecies for your pre-heresy legion of choice; Blood Angels are practically crying out to be re-labelled as World Eaters, and with a bit of work Grey Knights are popular to be subbed in as Thousand Sons. Just requires a bit of imagination, research into what weapon/wargear/vehicles were or were not available during that period, and then self-restraint in creating a characterful and accurate pre-heresy army.

Not so much into the rules aspect, I don't mind doing some conversions. However I would like some ease in doing them. Forgeworld and other UK companies that sell pre-heresy look a like items are a bit out of my way right now.

GW could literally double the size of its Marine line if it went for Warhammer 25k-30k.

Release a codex for 'similar' space marine legions:

Shock Legions: SW, WE, BA, Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus
Stealth and Sorcery Legions: Ravenguard, Alpha Legion, 1k Sons
Swift and Siege Legions: IF and IW, Night Lords and White Scars
Combined Arms: EC, Ultras, DG, DA, WB

Introduce new xenos races in a couple standalone codices for stuff like the Laer, the Interex, etc and then simply make the xenos codices compatible for Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and IG.

It seems like it could be a really lucrative expansion set for them.

The Interex would make an interesting opportunity to play a non imperial human force with distinctly different wargear and tactics.

Legion army lists could be much more integrated than anything currently, requiring you to take a mix of Astartes, AdMech and imperial army regulars.

Megarachnids for their stupid names could have the opportunity for some really cool models. Giant creatures generating stone trees that produce elemental effects would be really fun.

Plus, the opportunity to sell Primarch models just seems incredibly lucrative. If GW marketed a finecast bundle with all 20 primarchs for 400$ I bet quite a few of their more deep pocketed fan base would hand over the dough.

It's a no brainer to offer pre-heresy and heresy era models. I think that the Primarchs would be more in the $50-80 each though if not more. If I had a guess though FW is on the verge of offering some kind of IA book on the subject. They are probably laying the groundwork now with all the cool models they've been releasing. There is no question that this is a license to print money. I guess they've just had too much trouble fleshing out all the normal armies for fantasy and 40k. After all we'd here alot of "why more marines??!!" if this happened.

GW are just like any other modern company obsessing about 'branding'. THey don't want to do the heresy stuff because it doesn't fit the brand. Even if FW do it, they've effectively push it aside. When they were making figures for Inquisitor they did a Kal Jerico. It was quickly pulled making it rare now. The reason was that they didn't want to confuse the Necromunda and Inquisitor brands. Like who the feth cares???

Oakenshield wrote:It seems like it could be a really lucrative expansion set for them.

The Interex would make an interesting opportunity to play a non imperial human force with distinctly different wargear and tactics.

Legion army lists could be much more integrated than anything currently, requiring you to take a mix of Astartes, AdMech and imperial army regulars.

Megarachnids for their stupid names could have the opportunity for some really cool models. Giant creatures generating stone trees that produce elemental effects would be really fun.

Plus, the opportunity to sell Primarch models just seems incredibly lucrative. If GW marketed a finecast bundle with all 20 primarchs for 400$ I bet quite a few of their more deep pocketed fan base would hand over the dough.

That's very true actually regarding the Primarchs, although there are some models out there if you are prepared to spend some time on ebay (some quite amazing sculpts in fact!)

I think one of the really interesting aspects of Pre-heresy is definitely the mixing of Astartes and Imperial Army taking part in operations, but perhaps most importantly that the Legion commanders were actually in charge of everything back then. In the 40k setting marines play the surgical strike force role that comes in to take out the Big Mek piloting the Gargant, or to destroy a bridge that renegades are using to reinforce their front lines - then they back off and let the IG do the dirty stuff. But that's all you can do with at maximum a couple of hundred marines. The Pre-Heresy Legions forces on the ground were often tens of thousands strong, within a larger contingent of sometimes hundreds of thousands for the largest legions. They could be used for so much more - for more general 'feet on the ground' style battles (some of those awesome old Epic Horus Heresy pictures of hundreds of marines taking each other on), through to recon, artillery and even garrison duties. For modelling, that opens up a lot more opportunities to do something different. For gaming, it opens up some really exciting possibilities for both rules, narratives and campaigns.

I think also that because the 30k universe is less defined, it gives a lot more freedom in terms of imagination for modelling. There is less of "well, actually there was a story in WD that showed that wasn't the case" although I understand these days it is a lot more set out in stone than when Pre-Heresy first appeared on the scene.

Although like I said, that there was apparently a decision made at a high level not to openly split the 30k/40k universes, I think the most we can hope for is armour marks, and vehicle/weapon variants from FW. But part of me is glad for it, at the moment it's almost entirely a fan-made community, and I worry that if GW gave any official attention to it (other than perhaps a IA book) they would ruin it

If you ever get a chance to look at the website for Tempus Fugitives over in England they have a huge codex for an Age of the Emperor campaign complete with allied rules for imperial forces, legendary units and primarchs. I skimmed through it and it looks amazing. If nothing else it could be a fun diversion to get a few games in and play in the era.

I don't foresee GW ever bothering doing pre-heresy model kits or a codex. FW already does a good job of offering models that can be used to give your army a pre-heresy feel, and although the topic of pre-heresy armies get a lot of attention online, I just don't hear a lot of talk about it in the FLGS, among players who might not post to 40k forums. It's pretty much the same thing as the people who want true-scale marine models. They have a big presence online, but I think that they are in the minority of the hobby as a whole.

IIRC, FW said they were interested in doing a heresy era book, what with all the heresy era power armour and vehicles they're doing.

It makes far more sense for Forgeworld to do it as well - it's non-core, and they have a lot more freedom in what they create than the main studio. They already have all of the power armour and weapon variants from that era, they're releasing Land Raiders and Rhinos from that era now, as well as the Contemptor dreadnought.

Also, since they've gotten into doing multi-book series now like the Badab War, they could do a 3 book series of the Heresy. Book 1 - Great Crusade, book 2 - The Heresy, book 3 - Terra.

Hmm that would be interesting. GW have already apparently made a policy decision on not doing it, but perhaps that wouldn't apply to Forgeworld who act more 'outside' of general GW sales, and therefore wouldn't confuse the kiddies with the change from a 4 to a 3 in the name?

I don't know why it would all be warhammer 30,000 anyway.

The Mk1 landraider, and Rhino, the flying jetbikes and all that. That was just called 40K when I was young.

Here, I can do it in 30 seconds:

Codex Pre-Heresy:
Sister of Battle, Necron, Tyranid and Tau players: go buy a Space Marine army.

The end.
Pre-heresy in a nutshell.

kronk wrote:I recall reading on this forum about a guy whose cousin knows a guy at GW (that sort of thing) who said something along the lines of HH figures and models being their "Ace in the hole." They know there is demand for it, but until the company is in dire straights, they'll hold off on it.

Not sure I buy it, though.

This has been said a few times and is still the theory I endorse. I don't know what they could do as a big even to top that.

Brother SRM wrote:

kronk wrote:I recall reading on this forum about a guy whose cousin knows a guy at GW (that sort of thing) who said something along the lines of HH figures and models being their "Ace in the hole." They know there is demand for it, but until the company is in dire straights, they'll hold off on it.

Not sure I buy it, though.

This has been said a few times and is still the theory I endorse. I don't know what they could do as a big even to top that.

I'm going to agree with this as well.

Branding is a big deal to be sure, but going broke is a even bigger deal.

Just think of how popular a nice well done sculpt of say, the Emperor would be. And how much it would sell for.

lord_blackfang wrote:Here, I can do it in 30 seconds:

Codex Pre-Heresy:
Sister of Battle, Necron, Tyranid and Tau players: go buy a Space Marine army.

The end.
Pre-heresy in a nutshell.

Depending on how Forgeworld do it, they could put in armies that were fought in the HH book series, like the megarachnid, Interex, etc. And Forgeworlds campaign based books have never included every race anyway.

However, I doubt they'd actually do pre-Heresy. Heresy era would make more sense with all of the old Space Marine stuff already out. The traitor legions were mostly still just normal Space Marines appearance-wise in the Heresy. Releasing the primarchs and putting out books with scenarios and rules for different legions would sell a lot.

Phobos wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

kronk wrote:I recall reading on this forum about a guy whose cousin knows a guy at GW (that sort of thing) who said something along the lines of HH figures and models being their "Ace in the hole." They know there is demand for it, but until the company is in dire straights, they'll hold off on it.

Not sure I buy it, though.

This has been said a few times and is still the theory I endorse. I don't know what they could do as a big even to top that.

I'm going to agree with this as well.

Branding is a big deal to be sure, but going broke is a even bigger deal.

Just think of how popular a nice well done sculpt of say, the Emperor would be. And how much it would sell for.

You only have to see the prices the Ronin Emperor goes for to see that people are desperate for an Emperor and yet GW just don't seem interested.

There are many interesting things they could be doing with the lore, but the Horus Heresy isn't one of them.

1.) Take your marines
2.) Split the force in half
3.) Have them fight each other
4.) You are now playing the Horus Heresy.


Tau & Eldar haven't seen a book in 5 years. Maybe we can start there instead of adding a seventh Space Marine codex.

Howard A Treesong wrote:

Phobos wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

kronk wrote:I recall reading on this forum about a guy whose cousin knows a guy at GW (that sort of thing) who said something along the lines of HH figures and models being their "Ace in the hole." They know there is demand for it, but until the company is in dire straights, they'll hold off on it.

Not sure I buy it, though.

This has been said a few times and is still the theory I endorse. I don't know what they could do as a big even to top that.

I'm going to agree with this as well.

Branding is a big deal to be sure, but going broke is a even bigger deal.

Just think of how popular a nice well done sculpt of say, the Emperor would be. And how much it would sell for.

You only have to see the prices the Ronin Emperor goes for to see that people are desperate for an Emperor and yet GW just don't seem interested.

Because GW isn't on the ropes yet.

Like has been said, they are more concerned with diluting their 40k brand right now to do anything heresy oriented. And really, you can't blame them because the whole heresy idea really does have the potential to mess up their 40k line. There is no reason to open this Pandoras box while the company is still profitable and solvent.

Phobos wrote:

Like has been said, they are more concerned with diluting their 40k brand right now to do anything heresy oriented. And really, you can't blame them because the whole heresy idea really does have the potential to mess up their 40k line. There is no reason to open this Pandoras box while the company is still profitable and solvent.

Yes right, I've written twice now in this thread that apparently there was a meeting of GW higher ups about the possibility of splitting the brand to 30k/40k, and from what I heard it is definitely not on the table - hence the splitting of the '30k' sprue, which was rumoured for years, and the inclusion of its components in many other marine releases. But, I don't know if I'm on people's ignore lists, or I'm dead and my posts on Dakka are just some figment of wayward soul that refuses to leave its earthly bindings.

Pre Heresy? Was that the time when we had regiments of 100 baneblades which counted as SCOUT companies?

GW could make a lot of money off of that! Unless they bring back EPIC....

Of course the greatest strength of sales are space marines, I doubt GW is ever inclined to make new aliens