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Hey Guys,

First time poster, long time browser.

Currently me and a few mates (all 18+) get together regularly to have a 2v2 or 2v1 depending how many can turn up. We have points criteria's we meet, every player follows force organisation and generally we follow the rules as best we can.

Recently however i've started to have some doubts regarding one of the players and how much they actually follow the rules and more importantly their codex's (mainly because they seem unbeatable). I took the liberty of going into a local GW shop, adding their points up and found their army list is close to 400-500 points more than what we agreed and half the rules/stats on characters arn't even in there!

See i don't want to break the group up with accusations and arguements but in a 1500 point list, 400-500 points extra is alittle excessive.

Has anyone had any previous experiences with this sort of thing, and anyone got any suggestions on how to resolve it smoothly?

Thanks!

buy the codex they use, read the rule. Know how your opponets armies work and what they all cost.


Make the games much better and can easily avoid things like this if you know their rules and can know for sure when things are off.

With this you can then kindly correct them, and once they see you know their armies rules, it will quit.

Cheating is a bad thing, you should confront them with it, as soon as you bought the codexes, or ask them to give them yours so you can look in them.

In a 1500pt game, you didn't notice the extra 400-500pts?
Aside from that, I say confront him. If he is a mate of yours then he might well learn his lesson and stop being a bit of a douche....

I would do the above, and perhaps institute a "must have written army lists" rule. IMO doing that is perfectly acceptable in friendly games. I've never played a game without a list, and I've never played an opponent without a list. It isn't even a matter of me refusing to play people without lists, it's just that in every game I've played, my opponent has also happened to have a list.

Just be honest and don't sound accusatory. "Hey, I think you might have been over some points last time. Is it cool if we double check this time?" I had a friend who thought that since a character could have up to a certain number of points of gear from the armory that he got it for free and we eventually caught it and fixed it with little trouble, though he was surprised.

CarpetRed wrote:Hey Guys,

First time poster, long time browser.

Currently me and a few mates (all 18+) get together regularly to have a 2v2 or 2v1 depending how many can turn up. We have points criteria's we meet, every player follows force organisation and generally we follow the rules as best we can.

Recently however i've started to have some doubts regarding one of the players and how much they actually follow the rules and more importantly their codex's (mainly because they seem unbeatable). I took the liberty of going into a local GW shop, adding their points up and found their army list is close to 400-500 points more than what we agreed and half the rules/stats on characters arn't even in there!

See i don't want to break the group up with accusations and arguements but in a 1500 point list, 400-500 points extra is alittle excessive.

Has anyone had any previous experiences with this sort of thing, and anyone got any suggestions on how to resolve it smoothly?

Thanks!

Get some chains, flensing knives, a large bat, and their codex. Sit down with them to explain their list vs. the codex. Than you'll know what to do.

Err on the side of caution, make sure you were looking up the right codex (i dont understand what you mean by character stats) since some space marine chapters will have the same units but different point costs. Add in possible stand in models and multiple players and things can get confusing. Ive been accused of the same when stripping down squads from what I usually take and really pushing what i can get for my points.

But yeah, 500pts + characters is pretty obvious, start having everyone have a list with all the point values out, or have a laptop and the alice 40k list makers on it so everyone can do them just before the game really quickly and you can have all the info in one place and you can answer things like. "did i buy a powerfist for the squad with plasma?" right on the fly.

While it is a good way to prove cheating, I would never go so far as to buy a codex for an army that I won't play just to prove it. On the other hand, I think you need to be absolutely certain that he is exceeding the limit excessively / knowingly before you make accusations of cheating. If it has really gone on for an extended period of time, you should approach him calmly, honestly and diplomatically. Compliment him on his wins. Tell him of your frustrations. Ask him if you can borrow his codex to study it so that you can try to learn how his army operates and so that you can become a better opponent. Of course you should include in this request an offer to lend him your codex. That is what I'd do.

If it's friendly, just talk to him about it mistakes happen... and if it's intentional, well, he'll just have to play by the rules next time. Just get people to write out their lists, ask to check everyone's lists and codexes and see if there are any mistakes... and of course do the same yourself.

If you want to be really diplomatic I'd avoid singling him out from the start just propose it as a general rule of thumb and see where it goes.

Meh I'd just call em on it in a way which is nice and friendly.

Too many points > "your army looks a bit big mind if I have a look at your army list?"
Rules too good to be true > "my that seems a bit silly(/cheesy/over powered) mind showing me the rule?"

Frazzled wrote:

CarpetRed wrote:Hey Guys,

First time poster, long time browser.

Currently me and a few mates (all 18+) get together regularly to have a 2v2 or 2v1 depending how many can turn up. We have points criteria's we meet, every player follows force organisation and generally we follow the rules as best we can.

Recently however i've started to have some doubts regarding one of the players and how much they actually follow the rules and more importantly their codex's (mainly because they seem unbeatable). I took the liberty of going into a local GW shop, adding their points up and found their army list is close to 400-500 points more than what we agreed and half the rules/stats on characters arn't even in there!

See i don't want to break the group up with accusations and arguements but in a 1500 point list, 400-500 points extra is alittle excessive.

Has anyone had any previous experiences with this sort of thing, and anyone got any suggestions on how to resolve it smoothly?

Thanks!

Get some chains, flensing knives, a large bat, and their codex. Sit down with them to explain their list vs. the codex. Than you'll know what to do.

Completely wrong.

First you need a Metal Dread, and a sock.
Next you put the Dread in the Sock.
Lastly you beat your "friend" until his math skills improve.

I've never played an opponent that didn't have an army list and codex handy. Consequently I've never encountered any serious instances of cheating. The codex/list requirement doesn't have to come from a place of mistrust or hostility either. It's vital to the game that you know what your opponents' armies can do. If you don't know what you're facing, you're effectively playing in the dark. I'm not sure I trust myself to know the exact wording on all my wargear and special rules, and I certainly don't expect my opponent will either.

jbunny wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

CarpetRed wrote:Hey Guys,

First time poster, long time browser.

Currently me and a few mates (all 18+) get together regularly to have a 2v2 or 2v1 depending how many can turn up. We have points criteria's we meet, every player follows force organisation and generally we follow the rules as best we can.

Recently however i've started to have some doubts regarding one of the players and how much they actually follow the rules and more importantly their codex's (mainly because they seem unbeatable). I took the liberty of going into a local GW shop, adding their points up and found their army list is close to 400-500 points more than what we agreed and half the rules/stats on characters arn't even in there!

See i don't want to break the group up with accusations and arguements but in a 1500 point list, 400-500 points extra is alittle excessive.

Has anyone had any previous experiences with this sort of thing, and anyone got any suggestions on how to resolve it smoothly?

Thanks!

Get some chains, flensing knives, a large bat, and their codex. Sit down with them to explain their list vs. the codex. Than you'll know what to do.

Completely wrong.

First you need a Metal Dread, and a sock.
Next you put the Dread in the Sock.
Lastly you beat your "friend" until his math skills improve.

Oh the almighty dreadsock...I keep an old SW dread and a sock in my kit for just such an occasion

there's a few free army builder sites out there, I generally prefer a list printed out, find oone of the free programs and tell your friends, then say sinc eits free you should all use it and provide eachother copies of the lists being used so you have a list of his weapons being used, specific number of models, and most importantly points totals

If you're worried about causing waves in your group by accusing someone, you can get them to verify points indirectly. Tell them, for example, that you want to try playing for Victory Points and that requires the point values of every unit.

Thanks for the replies guys, didn't expect such a response! Some good idea's in there, including the metal dread.

To be honest, we have noticed his army being slightly over powered, but with it being a power armour army(mouthful) and the new codex coming out recently we just thought it to be a recent change and we'd have to adapt to it.

And this is why I own all the Codecies and Army Books.

And all the IA. Plus they are good to read on the gakker.

If someone is cheating repeatedly (different from a simple one time mistake), it's not a friendly match. The "easy" nonconfrontational way to combat this would be to require your opponent to have a copy of the army list with the points next to the units and the upgrades bought. You could always use the excuse that you're planning on posting the match as a report on dakka and you need the list for that reason. It won't stop a determined cheater from trying to squeak out an extra 10-20pts but anything more than that (especially the hundreds you mentioned) will be pretty obvious to spot.

Bash in his skull and feast on the sweet goo inside.

Such is the fate of the cheater.

To be honest it is pointless cheating in a friendly game, it defeats the entire concept of a game that is 'friendly' (cheating isn't exactly a friend-winner) and ruins the RAW side to boot...

As the others have said, call him out, try to resolve the problem and if all else fails apply various means of torment...


Unless, of course, you play some weird meta-game where you have to LARP as if you are an actual general in the WHFB universe, and he happens to play skaven....

jbunny wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

CarpetRed wrote:Hey Guys,

First time poster, long time browser.

Currently me and a few mates (all 18+) get together regularly to have a 2v2 or 2v1 depending how many can turn up. We have points criteria's we meet, every player follows force organisation and generally we follow the rules as best we can.

Recently however i've started to have some doubts regarding one of the players and how much they actually follow the rules and more importantly their codex's (mainly because they seem unbeatable). I took the liberty of going into a local GW shop, adding their points up and found their army list is close to 400-500 points more than what we agreed and half the rules/stats on characters arn't even in there!

See i don't want to break the group up with accusations and arguements but in a 1500 point list, 400-500 points extra is alittle excessive.

Has anyone had any previous experiences with this sort of thing, and anyone got any suggestions on how to resolve it smoothly?

Thanks!

Get some chains, flensing knives, a large bat, and their codex. Sit down with them to explain their list vs. the codex. Than you'll know what to do.

Completely wrong.

First you need a Metal Dread, and a sock.
Next you put the Dread in the Sock.
Lastly you beat your "friend" until his math skills improve.

That is definitely an option and I applaud your commitment. A cheaper alternative would be some fishing weights. Save the dreadnought for the 12 year old snotling in the store. "Don't make me introduce you to "the Doctor" little TImmy!"

Army lists, pure and simple. Keeps things honest.

Far better to confront the cheater now than to watch your group desintigrate later over hurt feelings, acrimony, etc.

Step up and deal with this ASAP for everyone's good.

Some good suggestions here. If you are worried about the group imploding over such things, I would def. go the way of getting your own copy of whatever codex he is playing. Make sure he knows you have it, and that you are reading it. No need to roll it up and thwack him in the nose with it, but if you are reading it in his vicinity, and you make some commentary in conversation, he will almost certainly see what's in your hands and has your attention. Once he sees you are learning his rules, his lists SHOULD come into line rather quickly. If not, then it's time to call him out. Be polite as you deem needed, at first.

Sometimes people pick up the 1750 list instead aof the 1500 list. It happens. Sometimes in fantasy (6th ed) I took minimal heroes and tonnes of troops so people often thought I was playing 2500 not 2000!

Best policy is to have a list with clear points totals.