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Just a disclaimer: Yes, this is a copy-paste of a topic I made in the introduction forum, but I got trolled, among other people. I think. Maybe that's just how it works. So I've moved the topic here to receive some kind of help. Thanks in advance
A WARHAMMER 40K NOOB POST!?

Yup.

Hello everyone! I just recently made the commitment that I will finally get into Warhammer 40k instead of just watching battle report after battle report and having absolutely no idea what is going on. I got a friend to agree to collect with me and play games and stuff, and hopefully that will make my other friends want to get involved too. I have't even started playing yet, and I LOVE 40k. I love the lore, the armies, the community, etc. But unfortunately that means for the past couple months, I have been mentally planning what army to collect, how I will play with them, and then changing my mind and starting all over with a new army then rinse and repeat.

So I was hoping I could get some help planning out what army is good for me? I understand you should stick with what you think is cool, but Prettey much all armies are cool to me :x

A little background info for me would probably help

- I like to think of myself as a chaotic good person. Always strive to do the right thing, but pure good is either impossible or just frankly boring.
- I always route for the underdog. Its just an un avoidable fact about me. I love when nobody thinks much of you and you prove them wrong in a moment of glory.
- OP things annoy me. If it isn't the actual thing in question, its the personality of the person behind it. The win win win mentality people have or griefing = fun play style is infuriating.
- I have no experience with tabletop games.
- Outsmarting my opponent and winning will always be more gratifying then winning with no strategy and mindless moves.
- I have little to no artistic skill but in my opinion, the most creative mind of anyone I know.
- I've searched and searched, but I cannot find ANY hobby stores in my area to go to for 40K stuff.
- A jack of all trades army is appealing, but absolutely not nece
That's probably good for now. I should right a little something about my views on the armies to help you help me.

Blood angels: Space marines aren't the most immediet choice on my minds, but I f I had to pick one flavor of them, it would probably be these. My friend took a realy liking to these guys so I think I will stay clear of them.

Chaos Daemons: Probably the least seen army I have seen in my lurking of battle reports. Why is that? Are they terrible? Because terrible with awesome style is up my ally for sure. The only army to deep strike anywhere to start off (I think I know what that means. Probably not though) Seems like a cool playstyle. Also, the armies that people made in the army profiles tab here are INSANE. Holy crap, I spent so much time just staring at the models. I love Chaos fluff. My favorite god would be Nurgle. Because to my understanding, nurgle units live longer, a trait I really enjoy. Also the units look awesome.

Chaos space marines: In contrary to never being seen like the Daemons, I see these the most or maybe tyranids. The fluff and style are cool, and they aren't OP to my understanding. Alot of room for creativity, these guys seem really cool! Also the folks at miniwargaming make this seem like the faction to be no matter what you are and we should all be chaos. So maybe not CSM Because I like being unique.

Dark eldar: My first army I obsessed about. The look of these guys are AWESOME. The fluff of these guys are AWESOME. These guys are space pirates on like 50 drugs and they give less f*cks then a honey badger. The playstyle is said to be verry aggressive. I wouldn't know how I am, I haven't played yet. Painting them seems like a huge hassel, but I think it would be worth it. These guys have the latest codex update, so thats nice to know I'm updated. The "Get stronger as you play" rule they have is also very appealing.

Eldar: Unlike their problem child cousin, these guys are more clean. Chaotic good is alright with me. They seem prettey interesting. I've heard them be called the rock paper scissors army or something like that. They have units that will destroy other units all the time forever unless something catastrophic happens, and there are some units that will always fail against others no matter what. That, to my understanding, was how all armies were. So I obviously need someone to explain how this game works, because I am lost. Not saying I like Dark eldar better.

Grey Knights: Boring boring boring. And apparently the most OP thing in 40K. No thank you.

Imperial gaurd: I like the idea of a horde army, and the imperial gaurd has horde, and tanks for different play styles... but most people pick the latter. Seriously, in all APOC games I've seen, all I see are tanks. TANKS EVERYWHERE. Thats kind of terrible. One kind of unit everywhere? Thats just annoying. A nice balance of infantry and tanks? That's something I can enlist in. I hear they are very flexible too, thats very nice. The style and fluff is not very interesting but with these guys you can make your own history.

Necrons: I always love the underdog. And zombies. And robots. And this is all of those. Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy! They haven't seen an update in ages, so thats kind of annoying. No room for strategy apparently, which I hate. I want to love them, but they make it kind of hard. Fluff and style is great. Maybe in the next codex they will become more appealing. But Dark Eldar didn't get one for 10 years. So who knowes when that will be.

Orks: WAAAGH. I like these guys! Had it not been for a few major flaws, i'd pick them hands down. I love the fluf, I love the horde, I love the creativity, the units, the people who play them among other things. They come in Assault on black reach, which I will be buying regardless. So I get a head start if I choose these guys. But I hear some bad things. No strategy involved. All tactics the same. People hate orks. They are boring quick. These things really hurt my desicion. Unlike CSM, I don't care about the popularity of these guys. I don't know what it is about them. Everyone has a little ork in them I guess.

Sisters of Battle: Haven't really looked at them. Nothing that attracts them to me.

Space marines: If I pick these guys, I'd just go Blood angel. I don't see a reason for these guys to exist, but its obviously because I'm a noob, So I would love clarifcation.

Space wolves: See above, with even less reason to exist.

Tau: From my understanding they are hated. Thats cool with me. The play seems interesting. The fluff is cool, and the style is alright. The units all seem the same thing to me though, and the customization seems very limited. Probably a pass, But I have only skimed these guys, never really going in depth.

Tyranids: Last but not least the nids. Very cool. I like the swarm mentality, the no transports uniquness, the option of ranged combat, the units are cool. But they seem like the play to win army. I don't think I've ever seen them lose. Money isn't a huge issue, but I hear these guys suck alot of money up. And the custimization seems non existent. I prettey much see the same units in every game, with just varying numbers of certain units.

So there we go, I hope I gave enough information to help you decide on an army for me. I haven't been able to pick, and I'd love some assistance.

I don't know how to end this because I have no army.

Thanks everyone!

Why do you think GK are boring?

My advice: play whatever army you think looks cool and you will have fun painting. Every army has a good strategy and can win games.

GK are only overpowered because they are one of the most recent codex's.

I've made a few comments below based on what you've written. Note: this is merely a recommendation. No way Im going to say 100% to go down this route, the monetary costs is just too high so take from it what you will

Eldar.

- I like to think of myself as a chaotic good person. Always strive to do the right thing, but pure good is either impossible or just frankly boring.
Eldar in the fluff are usually portrayed as "just wanting to survive/find a way to avoid/kill Slaanesh". They can commit some unspeakable acts based on that previous critera but they certainly arent as twisted or evel as the DE/Chaos. You can certianly play "good" with them but when the situation arises become utterly ruthless for the good of your people.

- I always route for the underdog. Its just an un avoidable fact about me. I love when nobody thinks much of you and you prove them wrong in a moment of glory.
Eldar whilst competitive currently arent seen as the top dogs tournament-wise. They definetly arent underdogs either though (having said all that I dont believe any current 40k army is truely woeful - tactics and ability count for too much).

- OP things annoy me. If it isn't the actual thing in question, its the personality of the person behind it. The win win win mentality people have or griefing = fun play style is infuriating.
OP you mean overpowered? Every army has its overpowered cheese unit, thats part of the game. Eldar do too but not as much as others.

- I have no experience with tabletop games.
Cant help you there, you'll need the rulebook, codices etc and to play a few introduction games, preferably proxying some models before spending your money!

- Outsmarting my opponent and winning will always be more gratifying then winning with no strategy and mindless moves.
Every army can do this but Eldar arent as forgiving as other armies, they are brittle, most units are dedicated to one role only, they need to work together and coordinate and playing to your strenghts is key (good psychic abilities, varied weaponary, good manouverability, well defined troop roles).

- I have little to no artistic skill but in my opinion, the most creative mind of anyone I know.
Cant help there Im afraid, Marines are easy to paint as are Orks imo but I've painted by Ulthwe army in jet black with basic bone highlgihts, pics in the gallery. Easy and unique looking

- I've searched and searched, but I cannot find ANY hobby stores in my area to go to for 40K stuff.
You will probably have to mail order so, Eldar arent the cheapest, a lot of their models are still old metal and they are ageing. Wraithguard for example are horrificly priced. However you can build a relatively small, elite force. - A jack of all trades army is appealing, but absolutely not nece
Eldar can fulfill this role.

Bear in mind there are rumours Eldar are getting an "earlyish" 2012 release. Basically that means a lot of their range will be updated, rules changed and units upgraded. Expect to find subpar performers (Hawks, Spiders and Reapers) getting a big GW boost. monetary considerations for you are key here.

No Black Templar or Dark Angel love?

Mr. Wunderfull wrote:Just a disclaimer: Yes, this is a copy-paste of a topic I made in the introduction forum, but I got trolled, among other people. I think. Maybe that's just how it works. So I've moved the topic here to receive some kind of help. Thanks in advance
A WARHAMMER 40K NOOB POST!?

Yup.

Hello everyone! I just recently made the commitment that I will finally get into Warhammer 40k instead of just watching battle report after battle report and having absolutely no idea what is going on. I got a friend to agree to collect with me and play games and stuff, and hopefully that will make my other friends want to get involved too. I have't even started playing yet, and I LOVE 40k. I love the lore, the armies, the community, etc. But unfortunately that means for the past couple months, I have been mentally planning what army to collect, how I will play with them, and then changing my mind and starting all over with a new army then rinse and repeat.

So I was hoping I could get some help planning out what army is good for me? I understand you should stick with what you think is cool, but Prettey much all armies are cool to me :x

A little background info for me would probably help

- I like to think of myself as a chaotic good person. Always strive to do the right thing, but pure good is either impossible or just frankly boring.
- I always route for the underdog. Its just an un avoidable fact about me. I love when nobody thinks much of you and you prove them wrong in a moment of glory.
- OP things annoy me. If it isn't the actual thing in question, its the personality of the person behind it. The win win win mentality people have or griefing = fun play style is infuriating.
- I have no experience with tabletop games.
- Outsmarting my opponent and winning will always be more gratifying then winning with no strategy and mindless moves.
- I have little to no artistic skill but in my opinion, the most creative mind of anyone I know.
- I've searched and searched, but I cannot find ANY hobby stores in my area to go to for 40K stuff.
- A jack of all trades army is appealing, but absolutely not nece
That's probably good for now. I should right a little something about my views on the armies to help you help me.

Blood angels: Space marines aren't the most immediet choice on my minds, but I f I had to pick one flavor of them, it would probably be these. My friend took a realy liking to these guys so I think I will stay clear of them.

Chaos Daemons: Probably the least seen army I have seen in my lurking of battle reports. Why is that? Are they terrible? Because terrible with awesome style is up my ally for sure. The only army to deep strike anywhere to start off (I think I know what that means. Probably not though) Seems like a cool playstyle. Also, the armies that people made in the army profiles tab here are INSANE. Holy crap, I spent so much time just staring at the models. I love Chaos fluff. My favorite god would be Nurgle. Because to my understanding, nurgle units live longer, a trait I really enjoy. Also the units look awesome.

Chaos space marines: In contrary to never being seen like the Daemons, I see these the most or maybe tyranids. The fluff and style are cool, and they aren't OP to my understanding. Alot of room for creativity, these guys seem really cool! Also the folks at miniwargaming make this seem like the faction to be no matter what you are and we should all be chaos. So maybe not CSM Because I like being unique.

Dark eldar: My first army I obsessed about. The look of these guys are AWESOME. The fluff of these guys are AWESOME. These guys are space pirates on like 50 drugs and they give less f*cks then a honey badger. The playstyle is said to be verry aggressive. I wouldn't know how I am, I haven't played yet. Painting them seems like a huge hassel, but I think it would be worth it. These guys have the latest codex update, so thats nice to know I'm updated. The "Get stronger as you play" rule they have is also very appealing.

Eldar: Unlike their problem child cousin, these guys are more clean. Chaotic good is alright with me. They seem prettey interesting. I've heard them be called the rock paper scissors army or something like that. They have units that will destroy other units all the time forever unless something catastrophic happens, and there are some units that will always fail against others no matter what. That, to my understanding, was how all armies were. So I obviously need someone to explain how this game works, because I am lost. Not saying I like Dark eldar better.

Grey Knights: Boring boring boring. And apparently the most OP thing in 40K. No thank you.

Imperial gaurd: I like the idea of a horde army, and the imperial gaurd has horde, and tanks for different play styles... but most people pick the latter. Seriously, in all APOC games I've seen, all I see are tanks. TANKS EVERYWHERE. Thats kind of terrible. One kind of unit everywhere? Thats just annoying. A nice balance of infantry and tanks? That's something I can enlist in. I hear they are very flexible too, thats very nice. The style and fluff is not very interesting but with these guys you can make your own history.

Necrons: I always love the underdog. And zombies. And robots. And this is all of those. Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy! They haven't seen an update in ages, so thats kind of annoying. No room for strategy apparently, which I hate. I want to love them, but they make it kind of hard. Fluff and style is great. Maybe in the next codex they will become more appealing. But Dark Eldar didn't get one for 10 years. So who knowes when that will be.

Orks: WAAAGH. I like these guys! Had it not been for a few major flaws, i'd pick them hands down. I love the fluf, I love the horde, I love the creativity, the units, the people who play them among other things. They come in Assault on black reach, which I will be buying regardless. So I get a head start if I choose these guys. But I hear some bad things. No strategy involved. All tactics the same. People hate orks. They are boring quick. These things really hurt my desicion. Unlike CSM, I don't care about the popularity of these guys. I don't know what it is about them. Everyone has a little ork in them I guess.

Sisters of Battle: Haven't really looked at them. Nothing that attracts them to me.

Space marines: If I pick these guys, I'd just go Blood angel. I don't see a reason for these guys to exist, but its obviously because I'm a noob, So I would love clarifcation.

Space wolves: See above, with even less reason to exist.

Tau: From my understanding they are hated. Thats cool with me. The play seems interesting. The fluff is cool, and the style is alright. The units all seem the same thing to me though, and the customization seems very limited. Probably a pass, But I have only skimed these guys, never really going in depth.

Tyranids: Last but not least the nids. Very cool. I like the swarm mentality, the no transports uniquness, the option of ranged combat, the units are cool. But they seem like the play to win army. I don't think I've ever seen them lose. Money isn't a huge issue, but I hear these guys suck alot of money up. And the custimization seems non existent. I prettey much see the same units in every game, with just varying numbers of certain units.

So there we go, I hope I gave enough information to help you decide on an army for me. I haven't been able to pick, and I'd love some assistance.

I don't know how to end this because I have no army.

Thanks everyone!

Just a few of my comments:

BA: You have to like close combat - their elites and unique choices are all geared at close combat. (Exposed marines and close range) They have a number of interesting builds so they can be modified to suit your needs. Does not fit your underdog mentality.

Chaos Daemons: They are again close combat oriented. They have a number of interesting and competitive builds. The problem I have with them is their uncertainty - everything comes in from reserves and 33% of the time the wrong part starts on the board. If you like flexible and surprises they can be fun. Especially had Bloodcrushers and Slaanesh Fiends.

CSM: They are indeed resilient due to marine armor and some of the toughest troop choices in the game. A bit lame on the other choices though so you have to be willing to be a little less than the best due to cost or effectiveness on elites, fasts and heavies.

DE: They are indeed aggressive. I find them to be a Turn 2 army. By that I mean you pretty much know how every game is going to go by the end of the 2nd turn. If your vehicles are relatively intact and you have done more damage than received at this point, it should be your game no matter what. OTOH, if you are behind at the end of Turn 2 you probably are going to struggle to pull out a draw.

Eldar: They are more resilient than their cousins and they have specialists. For example, Dire Avengers excell at killing troops but if presented with a number of vehicles, they are worthless. Striking Scorpions will own low armored opponents but will be hard pressed if asked to take on Terminators. Very fun army but at this point, their competitive builds are very narrow.

GK: They are a tad OP (high, I have 6 grenade types on my bandolier and I can through all 6 of them in every round.) They do suffer from the Quality vs Quantity equation. If you like being outnumbered and having quality they are a good choice.

IG: In game terms not an underdog but you will get the feeling of being the underdog as your hoard of crappy troops gets slaughtered only to find out you won the game. A lot of interesting builds means this is an army that never stops giving. The downside is this army never stops taking $$$ to change.

Necrons: They have major flaws right now but perhaps in 9 months you will see a new codex and they will be fun to play.

Orks: WHAT MAJOR FLAWS??? No seriously you have cheap troops that are expendable and trust me will be expended. There is a fun factor to playing them though that can't be denied. If you like to modify models and scratch build stuff this is the army for you.

SOB: Very shooty but I would agree if you don't have the passion to play butch females, don't.

SM : The generic marine - they have the ability to run away automatically. This is a powerful ability that affects how your enemy will address you. They have access to some great stuff (sternguard, TH+SS termies, Ironclads) that no other type has. They are the cheapest to modify as you can add a different independent character and change the whole philosophy of your army.

SW: Counter attack and long fangs as well as some unique choices. They are a very flavorful army but again doesn't really fit your underdog mentality.

Tau: Again a dated codex and an over commitment to firepower over close combat. They can be very rewarding to play but are also somewhat frustrating as by their nature you can't import tactics from any other. Approach with caution if you are a noobie and highly competitive as you could be an 0-for for quite a while as you pick up the nuances of the game.

Tyranid: Fun, customizable. Hoard mentality. The only problem I have with them is 5th ed is so meched up and that is probably the biggest weakness of bugs - they are hard pressed to deal with vehicles. But very fun. Not really the underdog mentality but more the "we have a bunch of crap but our crap is going to win" The MCs give you a high variation of army that you can field.

From your statements I would narrow your choices to:

Dark Eldar, Bloods, Eldar or Orks. If you like a challenge Tau or Tyranids but be ready to absorb pain for awhile.

I am interested to find out what you do chose to go with. If you have any more questions, please ask.

Whatever you do don't go Tryanids they are very cotly on the wallet and also they are simplly the most noobish army in the game after tryanids but followed by orks. The fact is is that they are quite over powered and simply can field to much stuff for such a little price tag. I mean the Hive Tyrant has LW and BS standard so possability instant death and striking first with base to base contact models not nice. If you want to go Necrons wait a little while as they are going to be updated soo so if you go with them start them around november or christams when they will be updated. I personally started with Tau as my first army and have just started my Blood Angels last week. I have 2100pts of Tau and around 930pts of BA.

Orks aren't a boring army - they're characterful and have many possible lists with different styles, such as footslogging hordes, mobile armies with lots of Trukks, Warbikes and so on, Mek-themed armies with lots of walkers, etc. They're also highly enjoyable to build and paint.

I started with space marines, regretted it, tried eldar, regretted it, tried necrons, regretted it, tried nids, loved it, tried blood angels, loved it.

The moral of the story is: buy a couple of codexes you like, and proxy with a friend until you find one that suits you best beats spending a ton on models you will end up trading off lol

Go black templars. Can't get more chaotic good than those over zealous fanatics

Go orks! I have a footslogging horde and I have a ton of fun playing it. There is a lot of different ways to play orks and you can scratch build pretty much any unit in the codex. Modeling is fun but painting can be a pain with all those boyz to paint. I recently started dark eldar and I can tell you they can be very powerful. They are what you would call a glass hammer they can hit hard and fast but cannot take a lot of punishment in return. They are an army for someone looking for a challenge and not for beginners.

redkeyboard wrote:Whatever you do don't go Tryanids they are very cotly on the wallet and also they are simplly the most noobish army in the game after tryanids but followed by orks. The fact is is that they are quite over powered and simply can field to much stuff for such a little price tag. I mean the Hive Tyrant has LW and BS standard so possability instant death and striking first with base to base contact models not nice. If you want to go Necrons wait a little while as they are going to be updated soo so if you go with them start them around november or christams when they will be updated. I personally started with Tau as my first army and have just started my Blood Angels last week. I have 2100pts of Tau and around 930pts of BA.

Tyranids are overpowered? OK...

Find a amry with moddels that YOU find intresting, this is the golden rule when it commes to starting a army, same goes for the fluff really.

Trondheim wrote:Find a amry with moddels that YOU find intresting, this is the golden rule when it commes to starting a army, same goes for the fluff really.

Or be ready to spend the bucks to have a professional painter do it. That is one of my reasons for pointing newbies at SM or CSM. They are easy to paint. Not saying that unpainted is bad but you feel like you have a real force when it is all painted. And orks and IG can be daunting when you build a list and end up north of 100 figs.

Thanks for the input everyone! I can't tell if its my flimsy as hell internet or I don't understand this site yet so I won't be quoting. I'l do my best to respond to you.

Ratius: Thanks for the long post, its nice to hear from an army veteren. That rumor about the eldar will probably not affect my choice. Eldar are starting to seem very attractive to me at this point.

AlmightyWalrus: I was under the impression Daemonhunters were re named to Grey Knights. I've obviously been mis informed. And I have not heard of black templars untill now.

DAaddict: Thank you for this post, it was very well thought out. I had a few questions about some of the armys.

Are Daemons only close combat, or do they have limited range? Because I have never seen them shoot.

What you said about Dark Eldar worries me. I don't like the idea of knowing certain doom so early, but I do feel like if I come back from a losing battle and win, It would feel amazing.

I still wonder about the IG though. If tanks are the only way to win, I don't think its for me.

My fear of orks is that there is no strategy. A claim I hear often from ork players. Orks and space marines come in the starter kit I'm buying, so I'l definetly try orks for a while. Space marines, I still kind of think are boring, but I might try them for a while.

Are Tyranids really customizable? Because I really don't see it :x

Thanks everyone, Keep the posts coming!

Mr. Wunderfull wrote:- I always route for the underdog. Its just an un avoidable fact about me. I love when nobody thinks much of you and you prove them wrong in a moment of glory.
- OP things annoy me. If it isn't the actual thing in question, its the personality of the person behind it. The win win win mentality people have or griefing = fun play style is infuriating.
- I have no experience with tabletop games.
- Outsmarting my opponent and winning will always be more gratifying then winning with no strategy and mindless moves.

Greetings! Based on these three things, I would encourage you to avoid any flavor of Space Marines, and choose a Xenos army.

Which one you choose is less important than the fact that you avoid space marines. I play Dark Eldar, Orks, and Necrons - none of which have over-the-top elements like some of the space marine books. Dark Eldar and Necrons will require the most tactical effort from you - Dark Eldar because they are are a finesse army, and Necrons because they are old, overcosted, underpowered, and prevailing with them requires extreme care and exact application of force in the right places at the right time.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

redkeyboard wrote:Whatever you do don't go Tryanids they are very cotly on the wallet and also they are simplly the most noobish army in the game after tryanids but followed by orks. The fact is is that they are quite over powered and simply can field to much stuff for such a little price tag. I mean the Hive Tyrant has LW and BS standard so possability instant death and striking first with base to base contact models not nice. If you want to go Necrons wait a little while as they are going to be updated soo so if you go with them start them around november or christams when they will be updated. I personally started with Tau as my first army and have just started my Blood Angels last week. I have 2100pts of Tau and around 930pts of BA.

Tyranids are overpowered? OK...

Sorry I worded that wrong they aren't overpowered but they have alot of cheap abilitys that allow you to do great things and cant be stopped. When the Termagaunt which is a shooting unit has the same BS as an assault marine it makes you wonder. And lets face it genestealers are at the top of the cheese stack since they will alomost always go first have rending and can re-roll if toxin sacs are used and they are str4 I think so they get to re-roll against T4 or lower pretty big deal.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Mr. Wunderfull wrote:- I always route for the underdog. Its just an un avoidable fact about me. I love when nobody thinks much of you and you prove them wrong in a moment of glory.
- OP things annoy me. If it isn't the actual thing in question, its the personality of the person behind it. The win win win mentality people have or griefing = fun play style is infuriating.
- I have no experience with tabletop games.
- Outsmarting my opponent and winning will always be more gratifying then winning with no strategy and mindless moves.

Greetings! Based on these three things, I would encourage you to avoid any flavor of Space Marines, and choose a Xenos army.

Which one you choose is less important than the fact that you avoid space marines. I play Dark Eldar, Orks, and Necrons - none of which have over-the-top elements like some of the space marine books. Dark Eldar and Necrons will require the most tactical effort from you - Dark Eldar because they are are a finesse army, and Necrons because they are old, overcosted, underpowered, and prevailing with them requires extreme care and exact application of force in the right places at the right time.

Thanks for the reply.

I've been reading some of the links you have in your signature, you seem to really know what you are talking about when it comes to Necrons and DE. I've heard Necrons are getting completely re done in the new codex. I don't know what is happening with them, but I figured you would for actually use Necrons. Whats the deal? I heard they are becoming more like the Tomb kings in Fantasy. Thats a minus for me because Fantasy is lame Imo.

How fun are Dark eldar to play? Because an earlier post said you can basically tell who will win by the end of turn 2, which seems kind f boring to me. Dark Eldar were my first choice of army I became interested in, and they are still a strong contender for me.

And orks come in Assult on Black reach, so I would already get a head start collecting them if I chose orks. I don't see alot of ork information in your sig, are they not that fun compared to your other armies?

Mr. Wunderfull wrote:
AlmightyWalrus: I was under the impression Daemonhunters were re named to Grey Knights. I've obviously been mis informed. And I have not heard of black templars untill now.

Can't remember me mentioning Daemonhunters, but you're right, they're now the Grey Knights. The Dark Angels and Black Templars are two marine-variants that is surprisingly often ignored when talking about the armies of the game. This probably stems from them being 4th edition codices and as such not as up to date as the other marine chapters.

I'll drop this and this off, in case you want to check out their fluff.

A word of warning though: because of a little funny twist of fate, the Black Templars, who in the fluff strive to fight in melee as much as possible, are currently best built as a shooty army. I unfortunately can't say much about the Dark Angels, as I don't play them and haven't ever faced them.

Orks don't need strategy. Doesn't mean you can't apply strategy Kunning plans can really throw an opponent that things orks are only good for a straight charge and cc.

I play BT, Orks, Necrons and DE because i like a challenge. the more recent power-armour codexes are playing on easy mode for me, with slightly different win-button/cheat codes

Man up and play an Alien. I should get that on a T-shirt

I'd reccomend Orks (readily available, inexpensive) or Dark Eldar (tough learning curve, GORGEOUS models )

Orks have numerous strategies.

1: "Kan wall" KFF meks, kans, dreads, all shielding a green tide.

2: Green tide: 180 boyz, 30 nobz, and all the HQ, Fast attack, and heavy support you can fit.

3: Kult of Speed: Trukks, Bikes, Wagons, Koptas, anything that can get you into an assaulting on turn 2. (or even turn 1 if your lucky!)

4: Battle wagon RUSH 3-5 battle wagons with Deff rollas. very little can survive a deff rolla. tank shock a squad? 1d6 S10 hits, THAN they decide whether to death or glory. choose to do so? another d6 S10 hits before they get the attack(s) ram a vehicle? d6 S10 hits. even AV14 need fear this. toss a KFF mek in two of the BWs, and they will be very difficult to krak.

5: Shooty orks. believe it or not, BS2 is less of a hindrance than it would seem, especially with all the nifty template weapons available to orks. SAG, Grotzooka, SKorchas, Burnas,

redkeyboard wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

redkeyboard wrote:Whatever you do don't go Tryanids they are very cotly on the wallet and also they are simplly the most noobish army in the game after tryanids but followed by orks. The fact is is that they are quite over powered and simply can field to much stuff for such a little price tag. I mean the Hive Tyrant has LW and BS standard so possability instant death and striking first with base to base contact models not nice. If you want to go Necrons wait a little while as they are going to be updated soo so if you go with them start them around november or christams when they will be updated. I personally started with Tau as my first army and have just started my Blood Angels last week. I have 2100pts of Tau and around 930pts of BA.

Tyranids are overpowered? OK...

Sorry I worded that wrong they aren't overpowered but they have alot of cheap abilitys that allow you to do great things and cant be stopped. When the Termagaunt which is a shooting unit has the same BS as an assault marine it makes you wonder. And lets face it genestealers are at the top of the cheese stack since they will alomost always go first have rending and can re-roll if toxin sacs are used and they are str4 I think so they get to re-roll against T4 or lower pretty big deal.

Termagants most definitely do not have the same BS as a marine.
Genestealers are counterable. They only have a 5+ armour save so die in droves to bolter fire. Also if you stand in terrain and make them charge you through it then they can forget about going first.

Arson Fire wrote:

redkeyboard wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

redkeyboard wrote:Whatever you do don't go Tryanids they are very cotly on the wallet and also they are simplly the most noobish army in the game after tryanids but followed by orks. The fact is is that they are quite over powered and simply can field to much stuff for such a little price tag. I mean the Hive Tyrant has LW and BS standard so possability instant death and striking first with base to base contact models not nice. If you want to go Necrons wait a little while as they are going to be updated soo so if you go with them start them around november or christams when they will be updated. I personally started with Tau as my first army and have just started my Blood Angels last week. I have 2100pts of Tau and around 930pts of BA.

Tyranids are overpowered? OK...

Sorry I worded that wrong they aren't overpowered but they have alot of cheap abilitys that allow you to do great things and cant be stopped. When the Termagaunt which is a shooting unit has the same BS as an assault marine it makes you wonder. And lets face it genestealers are at the top of the cheese stack since they will alomost always go first have rending and can re-roll if toxin sacs are used and they are str4 I think so they get to re-roll against T4 or lower pretty big deal.

Termagants most definitely do not have the same BS as a marine.
Genestealers are counterable. They only have a 5+ armour save so die in droves to bolter fire. Also if you stand in terrain and make them charge you through it then they can forget about going first.

Sorry I meant that termagaunts have the same Iniative as an Assault Marine.

I'd say go Eldar. They're a bit self centered, but you would be too if you were approaching extinction. They're the race that succeeds even though they don't have vast numbers like the other races have.

I like them for the fluff, and basically they are akin do an obsidian dagger. Sharp as hell but extremely fragile.

For supplies check out www.dicebucket.com

Necroshea wrote:I'd say go Eldar. They're a bit self centered, but you would be too if you were approaching extinction. They're the race that succeeds even though they don't have vast numbers like the other races have.

I like them for the fluff, and basically they are akin do an obsidian dagger. Sharp as hell but extremely fragile.

For supplies check out www.dicebucket.com

Holy crap that's good savings. Can I get confirmation if this is legit? Just making sure.

Regret to say I've yet to try it, but the prices look right for online retailers.

Besides, they use paypal. If you don't get your stuff, you file a complaint and get your money back. Paypal is awesome in dealing with things like that.

Just based on the personality notes you put down you'd probably have a lot of fun with the Eldar. Their units' insane overspecialization lends itself to some pretty cunning battle plans, they can be built to do most anything at least decently, and aside from Marines they're probably the easiest army to get away with a less complex paint scheme on. They can be difficult to play, but you can probably wing it through smaller games until you've got the experience to run more complicated tactics.

Fluff-wise, they're probably the most underdog faction out there, hanging on by the skin of their teeth and the precognitive abilities of their Farseers, you'll probably like that.

I'm going to vote for Eldar

Mr. Wunderfull wrote:
- I like to think of myself as a chaotic good person. Always strive to do the right thing, but pure good is either impossible or just frankly boring.
They are on the brink of extinction and so will go to any length to save their own kin. They seem arrogant to most people but I just love the way they act, manipulating other races so they weaken eachother before the Eldar strike.

- I always route for the underdog. Its just an un avoidable fact about me. I love when nobody thinks much of you and you prove them wrong in a moment of glory.
Fluffwise they are as mentionen before on the brink of extinction. On the table they are still very solid, all units have their use and the only drawback is their points cost. In the next codex I hope they only lower the cost, make Eldar the true masters of psychic warfare and maybe trhow in a new unit or two.

- OP things annoy me. If it isn't the actual thing in question, its the personality of the person behind it. The win win win mentality people have or griefing = fun play style is infuriating.
They are not OP (maybe Eldrad), they are pretty balanced force but if you learn how to play Eldar well they might seem OP as its a true symphony of destruction

- I have no experience with tabletop games.
Well, we were all beginners at some point

- Outsmarting my opponent and winning will always be more gratifying then winning with no strategy and mindless moves.
Eldar is all about tactics imo and being on the move one step ahead. Of course you can make a list where you just go down the middle and jam your army down your opponents throat. But its hard to pull off and its not really Eldar'y.

- I have little to no artistic skill but in my opinion, the most creative mind of anyone I know.
You'll get better at painting by painting, so get started. Also, I think Eldar miniatures are very beautiful and inspiring so its fun to paint em.

- A jack of all trades army is appealing, but absolutely not nece
I think the only army that suits this is an SM variant. Eldar are very specialised and will not stand up well when you try to get 1 unit to do it all. I guess you could say this is what makes them so great but also one of their weakness.

Go with necrons, a neutral evil slant for you as it is always more of a challenge to play a differing alignment than you find easiest to play .
But eldar, solid and flexible force, but requires thinking and synergy with the rest of the army so isn't the spesh murinez is bestest mentality. Also they just plain look better than everyone else too

Mr. Wunderfull wrote:Thanks for the reply.

I've been reading some of the links you have in your signature, you seem to really know what you are talking about when it comes to Necrons and DE. I've heard Necrons are getting completely re done in the new codex. I don't know what is happening with them, but I figured you would for actually use Necrons. Whats the deal? I heard they are becoming more like the Tomb kings in Fantasy. Thats a minus for me because Fantasy is lame Imo.

How fun are Dark eldar to play? Because an earlier post said you can basically tell who will win by the end of turn 2, which seems kind f boring to me. Dark Eldar were my first choice of army I became interested in, and they are still a strong contender for me.

And orks come in Assult on Black reach, so I would already get a head start collecting them if I chose orks. I don't see alot of ork information in your sig, are they not that fun compared to your other armies?

Greetings again. Necrons are an ancient codex - they're getting a new one to bring their line of miniatures and rules theoretically in-line with the rest of the codices in the game.

Dark Eldar are quite fun to play...and challenging. They have always been considered the most challenging army to play, and I don't think that's changed. I disagree with the assessment that you can tell who is going to win by turn two. Let me caveat that with this - there are extreme ends of the spectrum for every army, and it is sometimes quite clear with ANY army that you've got the battle well in hand, or that you're about to lose monstrously. Dark Eldar are no different, but not special in this respect. There will be games when my first turn is so deadly, that the game is pretty much over after turn one. There are also games when I completely whiff, and I struggle the entire game for victory. There are games when I make mistakes, when dice don't go my way for a few important rolls....they happen to everyone.

In terms of Orks, I have more battle reports up for them than for anything else. However, the tactical and army building guidance I've written about Orks has been spread throughout various posts, and I never compiled any of it into an article of any sort. It's a shame, because I gained my fame through my Ork successes. Unfortunately, I haven't played my Orks in a long time because of my infatuation with 3rd edition Dark Eldar, which turned into exploring their new codex, and has shifted into trying to cram as much in with my Necrons before they get a new book.