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L: Tyrant - sword of bloodshed, greedy fist, ironfist, heavy armor

H: Firebelly - dispel scroll, great weapon, level 2
H: Firebelly - great weapon
H: Firebelly - great weapon
H: Firebelly - great weapon

C: 8 Ironguts - standard of discipline, full command
C: 8 Ironguts - full command
C: 6 Bulls - full command, ironfists, light armor

S: 4 Leadbelchers - bellower
S: 3 Maneaters - bellower, ahw; swiftstride, scout
S: 1 Sabretusk

R: Stonehorn
---------
2500

Messing around with what I've got painted and what I'd want to spend time building / painting (firebellies, 8 ironguts, stonehorn). Tyrant goes in the disciplined guts, at least one firebelly goes in each core block, fourth one doubles up or solos or hangs with belchers. Maneaters are standing in as my three yhets - I still dislike the chimps' actual rules, but 12 S5 attaks scouting and swiftstriding is a cool thing. Stonehorn is badass and not a thundertusk

- Salvage

I'd drop two Firebellies to add a Ironblaster and an additional Maneater (check this math...).

This still gives you a character in each core and some outstanding additional firepower.

Kudos to the Stonehorn. Played my first game today and this guy was a champ.

bd1085 wrote:I'd drop two Firebellies to add a Ironblaster and an additional Maneater (check this math...)

Part of the idea here is to spam firebellies, and two firebellies does not spam make. As to the extra maneater, they're there partially just so I can use my converted yhets ... but I also don't really want to convert a 4th one of them, with the rumors of an amazing plastic kit on the distant horizon. I do feel you though, more would be better.

I've avoided any ironblasters because Obviously Good Things tend to be pretty uninteresting to me, however leadbelchers I can't imagine are still all that important, despite the MASSIVE boost they got. Small arms are still of somewhat limited use in 8th, unless you're DE

Here's a brief rework:

L: Tyrant - sword of bloodshed, greedy fist, ironfist, heavy armor

H: Firebelly - dispel scroll, great weapon, level 2
H: Firebelly - potion of speed, great weapon, level 2
H: Firebelly - great weapon, level 2

C: 8 Ironguts - standard of discipline, full command
C: 8 Ironguts - full command
C: 6 Bulls - full command, ironfists, light armor

S: 3 Maneaters - bellower, ahw; swiftstride, scout
S: 1 Sabretusk

R: Stonehorn
R: Ironblaster

Leaves me with ~70 points to go, thinking that means more arcane stuff or something for firebellies and/or more sabretusks? I could crank things and get 2 leadbelchers w/ bellower back in the list, though I am unsure how useful the old standard belcher build is in the new book, now that we have 'tusks.

- Salvage

Well, 1 sabretusk is asking for a arrow unit to mow him down. I'd rather take your 70+tusk points, and get another maneater, and some wards for your lord/heroes.

Creon wrote:Well, 1 sabretusk is asking for a arrow unit to mow him down. I'd rather take your 70+tusk points, and get another maneater, and some wards for your lord/heroes.

21 points. Go ahead and mow him down. T4 W2 isn't super easy to kill, and even 1 cat in the back field does a lot of damage.

-Matt

Wanna waste a spell or an entire unit's shooting on one cat? Be my guest!

Sabres are fierce. Period.

I like the rework and knew you were going for a Firebelly spam. I only caution because if you receive a poor magic pool dice roll, that's a lot of points who don't get to use some extra *BAMF!

For the 70 points, I'd throw in an extra man-eater. Or make four units of single sabres.

I like the 3-firebelly list much better. I have to say, though, having faced new ogres, the bulls/ironguts didn't seem to be where it's at... it was all cat-riders and stonehorns with leadbelchers chipping in. Stonehorn is insane!! As are the cat-riders, whose name is obviously eluding me...

This list would be different and cool, like all your lists . Seems like the leadbelchers could help as you might not rush into combat against certain things in this list. At least it could soften them up a bit first, as the firebellies will be trying to do, I assume.

What are the 6 bulls going to do?

RiTides wrote:What are the 6 bulls going to do?

Be painted and fight things? I like to think that 6 MI can do some medium lifting in 8th, what with impacts, stomps and 18 attaks (+ at least one firebelly's blowtorch and S6 swings). Though I recognize that often what they can do isn't all that much ... I'd consider swapping them for X leadbelchers, but that means even more painting and using less stuff that already is

Re: having to take mournfangs and thundertusks, I suppose my response is something like 'Obvious Toyhammer is Obvious '

Overall though OK do seem to be shaping up into a bunch of variations on a theme: 2 medium-sized fighty units with characters, leadbelchers, guneaters of some flavor, perhaps more guneaters, (dragon banner) mournfangs, max ironblasters, 0-2 thundertusks, and hellheart on somebody. A bit discouraging maybe? But I guess I'll take it over bull horde abusiveness.

Side thought: I miss the tenderizer something fierce, tyrants just seem so lackluster without something meaty to swing at people. Still great stats and LD9, but.

- Salvage

I think the 6 bulls have a place for sure- but I also tend to run slightly smaller units that might be more vulnerable to them.

Still, they're plenty big to clear off any support units roaming around, and can pitch in on the flanks of close combats. An extra stack of impact hits and punches can't go too wrong.

Any thoughts on what spells you might go for with the firebellies?

Yeah, I think 6 is OK... I'd just like them better at 8 (if wanting to run 4-wide) or 9 (for an extra rank at 3-wide).

And no pressure from here to run mournfangs, they're just scary . I totally respect going for a different style list! And it can be effective...

About the tyrant- Throgg killed a firebelly, tyrant, and all but one wound off a BSB when I faced new ogres . So I agree, it'd be nice if they tyrant had something bigger to swing.

RT, Throgg is also ~100 points undercosted

RZ, I'm guessing ideally I'd nab flame sword, flame cage, fire cloak with fireballs across the board. Sword and Cage because they're outstanding spells, and the cloak because it can be cast from combat. Having seen a firebelly in action a couple times it was fairly clear that you want as many not-magic missiles / direct damage as you can get, so you can cast them whilst in combat (and with a viable target for the belly at all times).

- Salvage

Hence, my point, I thought it was silly that he could mow through the tyrant! (Although I don't think the tyrant was decked out)

With 6 wizard levels can you pretty much choose your spells? I haven't taken more than 1 in a long time, and I forget if you need to choose whether to swap for the signature spell for each as you roll spells, or all at the end...

Digging it. Should be great fun to play.

RiTides wrote:With 6 wizard levels can you pretty much choose your spells? I haven't taken more than 1 in a long time, and I forget if you need to choose whether to swap for the signature spell for each as you roll spells, or all at the end...

Not really. You decide what each wizard has in sequence, including dropping one down to the #0 spell, before rolling for the next one. IF you never took the signature spell, then 6 levels of magic would mean that you have every spell. Except fireball is so legit that I'd almost certainly be dropping something for it, though even keeping one of the six main spells means that the following belly has a better chance of getting what I want (i.e. because of doubles). I could run the numbers but it doesn't matter too much

Anyway, here's a re-up:

L: Tyrant - sword of bloodshed, greedy fist, ironfist, heavy armor

H: Firebelly - dispel scroll, great weapon, level 2
H: Firebelly - great weapon, level 2
H: Firebelly - great weapon, level 2

C: 8 Ironguts - standard of discipline, full command
C: 8 Ironguts - full command

S: 6 Leadbelchers - bellower
S: 3 Maneaters - bellower, ahw; swiftstride, scout
S: 1 Sabretusk
S: 1 Sabretusk

R: Stonehorn
R: Ironblaster

Hope your mind wasn't blown! It just recognizes that a third medium-sized hammer isn't all that useful, while belchers may hit just as hard, while also roasting things from afar. If I went this route it would involve tearing arms off of bulls to give them cannons, which is a somewhat permanent change that gets rid of my ability to run bulls ... So I'm still watching batreps to see what belchers do

- Salvage

Well, here's a few ideas. Magnets to "wrist mount" the cannon. They're ogres, what do you expect? The same thing to have them "Slung" across the back. Bull's backs are usually bare enough to magnet cannons onto them.

Skip the bellower on the Leadbelchers. Not worth enough to me. Where are your heroes going? I see four units that could take them. And I think Stubborn is one of the requirements for Maneaters. They're small and out front, they need the spine-stiffening.

Creon wrote:Skip the bellower on the Leadbelchers. Not worth enough to me. Where are your heroes going? I see four units that could take them. And I think Stubborn is one of the requirements for Maneaters. They're small and out front, they need the spine-stiffening.

Dude, you are never going to convince me not to pay 10 points for a musician, even on Unbreakable units now that Swift Reform exists The tyrant goes with the +1LD ironguts and a firebelly joins both guts, with the third either with belchers or solo-ing if needed / able. I was thinking about the maneaters' abilities, but I still like scout and find swiftstride too useful to not take (also, they're yhetee models ). I was actually thinking about ItP instead of scout, as LD tests for isolated ogre units is rough, though if I drop scout then it's not like they'll be that far from Big T in most cases ... Maybe ItP + Scout? Will miss the swift, but scouting maneaters are up to other things than helping mainline blocks catch things.

Stubborn I'm not really a fan of. They're still just 9 T4 wounds, so let's say I need stubborn (i.e. I'm fighting something I won't pulverize), I'm probably also dying pretty quickly!

- Salvage

Haha exactly boss 10 points for the swift reform seems almost mandatory.

I like the idea of stubborn just in case you dont pulverize stuff.

Boss Salvage wrote:

Creon wrote:Skip the bellower on the Leadbelchers. Not worth enough to me. Where are your heroes going? I see four units that could take them. And I think Stubborn is one of the requirements for Maneaters. They're small and out front, they need the spine-stiffening.

Dude, you are never going to convince me not to pay 10 points for a musician, even on Unbreakable units now that Swift Reform exists The tyrant goes with the +1LD ironguts and a firebelly joins both guts, with the third either with belchers or solo-ing if needed / able. I was thinking about the maneaters' abilities, but I still like scout and find swiftstride too useful to not take (also, they're yhetee models ). I was actually thinking about ItP instead of scout, as LD tests for isolated ogre units is rough, though if I drop scout then it's not like they'll be that far from Big T in most cases ... Maybe ItP + Scout? Will miss the swift, but scouting maneaters are up to other things than helping mainline blocks catch things.

Stubborn I'm not really a fan of. They're still just 9 T4 wounds, so let's say I need stubborn (i.e. I'm fighting something I won't pulverize), I'm probably also dying pretty quickly!

- Salvage

15 points get you a standard that also lets you re-roll 1 failed Ld test. Really worth it on maneaters.

-Matt

Well, you can see it that way. The way I see it is that the maneathers stay for another round more thanthey normally would, as Iuse them as flank blocker/war machine hunters anyway. Maneaters on one flank and sabretusks on the other tend to funnel the enemy straight into the Ogre Line.

Finally got the book a couple weeks ago, then had a rethink on LD issues and landed on this:

L: Tyrant - kineater; fencer's blades, greedy fist, heavy armor

H: Firebelly - level 2, dispel scroll, great weapon
H: Firebelly - level 2, potion of speed, great weapon
H: Butcher - level 2, ahw

C: 8 Ironguts - banner of discipline, full command
C: 8 Ironguts - full command

S: 8 Leadbelchers - thunderfist, bellower
S: 3 Maneaters - bellower, ahw [immune to psychology & swiftstride]
S: 5 Sabretusks
S: 1 Sabretusk
S: 1 Sabretusk

R: Stonehorn
--------
2500

Tyrant becomes a touch more defensive with the WS10 (though 6 S6 @ WS10 isn't too bad for offense ), but mostly he's got kineater for some kind of LD reroll. Swapped a firebelly for butcher so I can play with some maw magic, so I can use one of my painted butchers, and so I could free up some points. Bellies go with the guts (speedbelly with the tyrant so he can blowtorch faster than him, should flaming impact fail vs regen), butcher with the belchers.

Belchers got bigger for more fire- and fight-power, found a thunderfist to keep the butcher safe-ish. Maneaters have solidified to ItP + swiftstride (i.e. they're supposed to be yhetees that aren't total nincompoops), and I'm looking to try out the big 'tusk pack, rather than just spamming single cats like everybody else. Five is also the next safest from panic after one

And there's a stonehorn. After a lot of internal debate, I concluded that he has to use the spear gun, as the chaintrap, after all those to hit modifiers, isn't anything but cool looking. Should I feel the need to shoot with the big dude, at least the harpoon launcher might hit something

- Salvage

I think the ItP on the Maneaters will help and let them operate independently. It also lets you set up things in combination with the Sabertusks without worrying about them panicking your other units when they go.

As to that last point, I'm thinking your main requirement will is going to be attention to detail on movement. Leadership 10 is great, but lacking the re-roll I'd make sure where applicable to keep units within 12" of the bubble, but 6" from panic threats.

At first, I thought you should split the leadbelchers, but one unit saves on the musician, and lets you hit pretty hard in combat too. I think you've probably got the right choice there. Looking forward to hearing about them getting a flaming sword and shredding hydras and hell pits.

Lightning struck one day at a LGS, and I realized that now that I finally have an army that can use Beast magic, I damn well better use it, since I talk the lore up so much So forget the spammed firebellies, here's the list I've settled on and am prepared to start building towards:

L: Beastmaster - level 4, fencer's blades, armor of fortune, dragonbane gem, dispel scroll

H: Bruiser - BSB, dragonhelm, ironcurse icon, ironfist, heavy armor
H: Bruiser - ironfist, heavy armor
H: Bruiser - ironfist, heavy armor
H: Butcher - ruby ring of ruin

C: 8 Ironguts - banner of discipline, full command
C: 8 Ironguts - full command

S: 8 Leadbelchers - thunderfist, bellower
S: 3 Maneaters - bellower, ahw [immune to psychology & swiftstride]
S: 1 Sabretusk
S: 1 Sabretusk
S: 1 Sabretusk

R: Ironblaster
--------
2500

The core of the army doesn't change, and the sub-par stonehorn was swapped out for a single above-par ironblaster, but the biggest changes are to ogre HQ. Beastmaster is a bit better armored than most slaughtermasters, partially because I'm using my tyrant model, and partially because I'm not using Lore of the Maw to be grabbing back wounds all the time. Bruiser spam is intended to make the most of Beast bubble spells, whether they all deploy in one unit for deathstar devastation, or side by side in both guts blocks. Butcher still hangs with belchers and provides fire support or buffs for those guys.

Very happy with the list up to this point, just dragging my heels on building the new additions, as my Hordes boys are finally built and begging for paint before another bunch of big burly dudes demand my attention

- Salvage