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So I'm just starting with Skaven (and Fantasy as well) and Ive only played one game with a list similar to this. My main theme is that all the major clans are represented. I enjoy every aspect of skaven society from the engineers and plague monks to the assassins and monster-makers. So im trying to keep that all together. The background for this list is a thrall clan of Skryre, known as Clan Widgitt, that has subjugated and conquered several other clans of other dispositions and fighting styles and due to its rapid ascension (and rapid change in leadership from backstabbing) means it has caught the attention of a Grey Seer who seeks to reign their power and study the clan to see if they are a threat to any of the greater clans.


Lord
Grey Seer Kamal: D3 Warpstone tokens, Screaming Bell: 440

Heroes
Warlock Engineer Widgitt: 2 wizard, Warplock pistol: 108
Chief Kritlor: BSB, Warpstone armor, Shield: 101
Plague Priest Dulthrax: 1 wizard, Talisman of protection, Flail: 109
Core

42 Clanrats (Bell pushers): Standard, Musician, Shields: 201
50 Clanrats (tar pit rats): Standard, Musician, Spears: 237
20 Stormvermin: Fangleader w/ warplock pistol, Musician, Standard, Poison wind mortar: 248
25 Giant Rats w/ Packmaster (Clan Askulpartos): 83

Special
5 Rat Ogres w/ 2 Packmaster (Clan Askulpartos): 216
20 Plague Monks (Clan Furventes): Plague Banner, Musician: 185
7 Plague Censer Bearers (Clan Furventes): 112
8 Gutter Runners (Clan Umbrak): Deathrunner, Smoke bomb, Poisoned weapons: 158
6 Poison Wind Globadiers (Clan Widgitt): 60

Rare
Doomwheel (Clan Widgitt): 150
Warp Lightning Cannon (Clan Widgitt): 90
TOTAL: 2498

Let me know what you guys think. My main concern is with the size of the skirmisher units. How do you guys normally size them? Please let me know any other recommendations you have. Thanks!

Wrong forum :p

Think you might have a problem facing vehicles

........Skaven and Lizardmen totally need to be expy'd.

wow, my bad. Sorry guys

You should PM a Mod to have it moved to the proper WHFB sub-forum.

Or report yourself (yellow triangle on the right of your post) with "Thread in wrong forum"...

As for the list, I don't have much experience about 2000+ pts lists, but it looks like there may be too many small units that won't accomplish much due to their size.

For a fluff nut like me, I like all those tiny units (who I am sure, all have a good reason to be in that army), but I'm almost sure that combining some would be more efficient.

Like, for instance, drop the Censer Bearers, and get more bodies for the Globadiers & Gutter Runners.

I also think that at this point level, a large unit of Slaves (60+) is really useful for tarpitting an enemy unit, and nearly as efficient as Clanrats, for half the cost. Once again, I'd maybe drop the 50-strong Clanrats, field a 60-strong Slaves unit (120pts), and use the remaining 120-ish points to flesh out the Stormvermins or Plague Monks, or add another Warp Cannon.

Just my thoughts, based on no solid experience to back them up (sadly).

*shazam*

It looks like a nice list, certainly different from the usual cookie cutter lists

Overall I would tend to agree that some units are probably a bit on the small side; 20 plague monks will cause some damage but probably only against their first opponent (loses are likely to drop their effectiveness there after) - also no extra HW's ?; censer bearers may lose half their numbers before they fight back due to low I, esp. if charge a unit front on (better on flank or rear though); gutter runers prob. ok though not sure about the Deathrunner & smoke bomb effectiveness in game terms; PWG - fine.

You could drop some from your tar pit unit to use points elsewhere (10ish) although it won't go very far.

Maybe fit a small unit of slaves to help fit in with the fluff . . .

It depends on how strongly you rate the fluff vs. gaming balance. You have 2 nice big units (very 8th ed.), 3-4 okay-ish units (SV, GR, RO & PM's) + the skirmishers. Great in terms of your background story , but likely to struggle in head on fights.
If you can outmanouveur your opponent using your skirmish units though, that could be another story

Thanks FordPerfect, Yeah I do want to increase the size of my plague monks, especially since they have no armor. Then again Im really only taken them for the censer bearers, I think youre right about dropping the smokebomb and deathrunner they are a small unit and they have just as high of a LD as any skaven can have (7, oh boy!) so I can hope that will last.

And to be honest, I never really dug the concept of skavenslaves. Maybe If I got more rats I would play a unit, but for now I have about 110 clanrats models and I would probably just prefer to play them as clanrats. At least when clanrats break I can hope to rally them whereas skavenslaves automatically are destroyed if they break and at LD 2 that would be almost expected.

Wow, I'm glad I wasted time to write down some advice...

So I'll just add this before leaving : Slaves, if kept nearby your general (Ld7), and have large number of ranks (+3Ld), will have Ld10... And if you run 60 them in rows of 5-6 rats, for 120pts you'll have 10-12 ranks, meaning they'll most likely be steadfast...

Are you sure you're still expecting them to break ? And yet, if they do break in CC, they'll inflict about 10d6 hits on the opposing unit... Kinda scary, whaddya think?

Yggdrasil wrote:Wow, I'm glad I wasted time to write down some advice...

So I'll just add this before leaving : Slaves, if kept nearby your general (Ld7), and have large number of ranks (+3Ld), will have Ld10... And if you run 60 them in rows of 5-6 rats, for 120pts you'll have 10-12 ranks, meaning they'll most likely be steadfast...

Are you sure you're still expecting them to break ? And yet, if they do break in CC, they'll inflict about 10d6 hits on the opposing unit... Kinda scary, whaddya think?

That DOES sound scary. Shoot, I may need to get another IoB rat pack to paint up as a big batch of slaves.

Slaves are nasty tarpits. and with 60 of them, and a cheap warlock with the crown of command, they will never go anywhere. Even at a loss of 20 per round, it's still 3 entire rounds to chew through that unit.

Well Slaves wouldnt be bad, but I just dont have enough models right now to do them justice. I have about 100 basic clanrat/slaves models and I have to use at least 40 of them as clanrats to push the bell. Plus those 10d6 hits from them breaking are also inflicted on any friendly units within 6" so basically they become a danger zone.

If I get more models then yeah, Ill give them a try. But with what I have know it doesnt seem like the best idea. Mostly Im just trying to focus of the points spent on heroes and specials since those usually dictate how a battle goes more than just slaves and clanrats

Not ten d6, I think it's a d3+9

Yggdrasil wrote:Wow, I'm glad I wasted time to write down some advice...

So I'll just add this before leaving : Slaves, if kept nearby your general (Ld7), and have large number of ranks (+3Ld), will have Ld10... And if you run 60 them in rows of 5-6 rats, for 120pts you'll have 10-12 ranks, meaning they'll most likely be steadfast...

Are you sure you're still expecting them to break ? And yet, if they do break in CC, they'll inflict about 10d6 hits on the opposing unit... Kinda scary, whaddya think?

Don't get upset, my advice was (hopefully) targetted at something in line with what the OP originally said about the design of his army, rather than coming up with big blocks of steadfast slave tar pits. Whilst having blocks of 60 slaves works wonders, it doesn't necessarily lead to a fun game for your opponent, esp. if there are multiple units of slaves as some lists have, with a GS sitting back just nuking the enemy using Curse, even when they're in combat with said slaves

Your advice is sound (regardless of experience), but as djdutton has since said, its not everyone's cup of tea (mmmmmm, tea . . . . insert British flag emoticon here !)

For clarification, the rule for exploding slaves is D3 + 1 for each rank after the first (with no upper limit as per Creon's joke about +9) !

@djdutton - You'll probably win more games using some of your 110 clanrats as slaves, though maybe not win more friends (YMMV), but you may learn more about the game & tactics by using your list as posted.

Advice is given freely (by all), its up to the individual whether to use it

Thanks for the advice guys, I was thinking about it and if I wanted to fit the slaves in there then it would give me a few more points to bolster my other units and change some things up. I really like the idea of combining Crown of Command with slaves to make them stubborn, that'll make sure they stick around! Anyways, here's the new list. Let me know what you think...


Lord
Grey Seer Kamal: D3 Warpstone tokens, Screaming Bell: 440

Heroes
Warlock Engineer Widgitt: 1 wizard, Crown of command, Death globe, Warplock pistol: 133
Chief Kritlor: BSB, Warpstone armor, Shield: 101
Plague Priest Dulthrax: 2 wizard, Foul Pendant, 2 hand weapons: 159

Core
42 Clanrats (Bell Pushers): Standard, Musician, Shields: 201
50 Skavenslaves (Widgitt’s snacks): Musician, Spears: 177
20 Stormvermin: Fangleader w/ warplock pistol, Musician, Standard: 183
25 Giant Rats w/ Packmaster (Clan Askulpartos): 83

Special
5 Rat Ogres w/ 2 Packmaster (Clan Askulpartos): 216
25 Plague Monks (Clan Furventes): Plague Banner, Musician: 220
7 Plague Censer Bearers (Clan Furventes): 112
10 Gutter Runners (Clan Umbrak): Poison weapons: 170
6 Poison Wind Globadiers (Clan Widgitt): Bombadier: 65

Rare
Doomwheel (Clan Widgitt): 150
Warp Lightning Cannon (Clan Widgitt): 90

TOTAL: 2500

Here are my two Warptokens:

- that Seer sure could use a little somethin'. Scalm would work wonders. Or the Shadow Magnet Trinket. A Dispel Scroll. Somethin'.

- I would not give that Warlock the Crown, for a few reasons. The first is that, if your Slaves aren't Steadfast, there's something wrong, or your Slaves have already done their job, and the extra points aren't worth it.
The second is that I wouldn't put the Warlock in with the Slaves, because he's expensive and he'll die right quick, and because then the combat won't consist "entirely of Skavenslaves", and you won't be able to shoot into it. In fact, if I fought against you, I purposely wouldn't kill him, so you can't blast me with your Warp-Lightning Cannon.

- Your BSB needs more protection. A lot more. I'd go Talisman of Preservation and Charmed Shield, plus a halberd. He's that important. Really.

- Not sure about a 6+ Ward on the Priest. I usually only spend the points if it's a 5+ or better, but it'll work on occasion.

- The Doomrocket is, point-for-point, the best thing in the game. Period.

- You'll have to tell us how those Spearslaves work out. I can't decide if the extra attacks are worth the extra points.

- 20 Stormvermin/Plague Monks won't do much, and they'll die super, super fast. Go 30 or go home, I say. Those Stormvermin could be packing a standard, too. The Stormbanner is stupid-good, especially since you have so little shooting.

- Giant Rats seem best deployed in big ol' blocks or in tiny darts. But once again, maybe it works for you. I'd get them a few more Packmasters, though.

- Some people will say Rat Ogres suck. I'll say this: they tear stuff up, and then die. If you can accept that, you're good. That said, halberd-wielding Chaos Warriors and any Special High Elf unit will kill them before they get to do anything. And those units are a common sight indeed.

- Censer Bearers are best in small units, I think. 7 is decent. Again, just know that they'll be dead after the first round of slaughtering. A flank or rear charge is a must, though, or they'll be dead before that even, probably. Target selection is key with these guys, too. Find the thing that'll go after them, and get to it. I4 guys will cut them down.

- Gutter Runners are best with slings and Poison. And at their best, they're amazing. No one eats up war machines like these guys, save Chameleon Skinks. But always, always, always field them in small units. 7 at the most, I'd say. There's no reason to have one unit of 10 versus two of 5. Zero.

- Globadiers...are tricky. Nowadays, there's so little cavalry anyway, they often have few guys to target. Still, they can be handy.

- I don't like the Doomwheel anymore. It's clunky and unreliable and monstrously underwhelming in combat. Against monsters and monstrous-types, it has no equal. But...an Abomination will outstrip two Doomwheels against any other target, and often against monsters as well.

- the Warp Lightning Cannon is probably the best thing in the Skaven book. It's kind of silly. Two would serve you well.