Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I love orks. i really love orks. and i think the current codex is brilliant. a little inflexible in terms of what can be a competetive list, but isnt that the same with every army? anyways, there are some things that do grate me though... and im the only ork player i know irl, so i thought id post to see if im alone in my ramblings, right on the money, having a brain fart or just plain crazy!

so here goes...



1) Orks are savage, hulking brutes. nothing else says it better. they get T4 - perfect. but why do they have WS4 S3 and not WS3 S4? are they really as skilled as a marine, but as weedy as a humie? really? look at the biceps on the models!!!!!!

2) Squigs. I love squigs as much as i love orks. why are there so few squigs in the army? id love a squig unit to be brought back under the car of a runtherder. currently the only playable squig i never get to play as its when zogwort gives one to an enemy. how come they can play with an angry squig and i cant?!
i also think the lobba should be replaced by tankbuster squig launchers

3) looted wagon. i know these are constantly being discussed, and i know they are inferior versions of real things. so without talking about all the other things wrong with them...how is a looted landraider the same as a looted Rhino? even just a front armour of 12 would have made more sense as it would then be the average. F12-S11-R10 is a pretty reasonable average considering the fluff and the spread of lootable vehicles out there have if you ask me
i dunno, whatever its failings it just reeks of there being no thought at all having gone into it.
i would LOVE it if there was a rule that if a mek is in a looted tank, the dont touch dat rule doesnt apply. i mean, he looted the thing - im sure he knows what buttons to press!

4) Meks, burnas and lootas. why is there an option to swap 3 lootas or burnas for meks? is it just me or is that a really, really wierd unit upgrade option? especially as they cant even keep the weapons that the rest of the unit use. ill admit, if i play a boomwagon i sometimes swap a loota for a mek to sit next to it in case the boomgun weapon is destroyed, but why would i want 3? surely the option should have been to upgrade one model to a mek, and that mek could bring a bosspole? then they would be invaluable.
whats worse though, is the fact the models box only allows you to make 4 of the unit of your choice, and forces you to make these meks or a different boy entirely.

5) tankbustas. again quite famous, but why oh why do they not have the tank hunter special rule?! (bomb squigs are way cool though)

6) Meganobs. i dont like them much, but thats not to say they are rubbish because theyre not. but i think they should have come with cybork as standard and priced at 45 as a result. there are far too many things out there which ignore armour, and as they are so slow i find them soooo labour intensive for no huge output.

7) Ramshackle on trukks. This rule is pretty good, but i think that the "kareen" result should be expanded to happen on a roll of 2-5. as it is, an interesting rule has for all intents and purposes a 2/3's chance of a normal destroyed type result and only a 1/3 chance of the event that actually makes the trukk and the rule interesting! seems half baked to me.

8) buggies & wartrakks. the models are old!!!!!!

9) gitfindas. what a waste! ive had 1 occurance in my last 5 fights where ive misjudged a 24" shot. surely they could have come up with something better?

10) Glory hogs. principles fine. execution is...erm...fitting? i guess? simplest fix is to take the unlimited trange off of the rule and make it so the rule only applies when within 24" of a vehicle - ie the vehicles in range and they then simply cant help themselves and cant resist the temptation of shooting the tank and ignoring those angry bloodclaws running at their faces



wawr, so glad that off my chest! please note, non of the above are really arguments to do with the competetivness of the liist, and im not fishing or creating a thread to discuss the minute failings of every unit, nor would my suggestions necessarily makes things better and might even break the game! but to me they are justy the things that scream wrong at me

i do love the orks though, and overall am totally happy with the list. just needed a vent, laughing at myself while writing

so, am i right, or am i an idiot?!

1. I suspect Strength 3 and Furious Charge represents the fact that they're not quite genetically-modified supermen in mechanized armor that enhances their strength even further, but in a fit of rage (while charging, for instance) they can approach a Space Marine's muscle-power.

2. Not sure about this one. Use a squig mob as Gretchin with no guns?

3. An option to upgrade to AV 12 might make sense, but Orks seem like the sort that might cobble together bits of stuff to produce a vehicle with inferior armor in order to open up more space to ride around in/carry more ammo in. And the "Don't Press Dat!" rule represents the Mek yelling "Don't press dat, ya idjit!" a split second too late as one of his unfortunate crew members pushes the wrong button.

4. I can't speak to the models, but your Meks do get Kustom Mega-Blastaz which are quite useful. Giving one the option to take a Bosspole would be a good idea, though.

5. Tankbustaz don't have the Tank Hunters special rule because that wouldn't make sense from a game balance perspective. Lascannon Devastators don't have Tank Hunters, Guard lascannon weapons teams can't get Tank Hunters, why should Ork Tankbustaz? They suffer far more from BS2 than they do from lack of armor penetration capability.

6. Allowing Meganobz to take a Cybork Body is a reasonable suggestion.

7. The point of the rule is to make the destruction of your vehicle unpredictable. You could end up with your Trukk staying where it is and blowing up, going somewhere else and blowing up, or just stopping working, you don't know.

8. I'm not in charge of that, but I'm sure if GW does release a new Ork rulebook (after Necrons and Tau, most likely) they'll give you new models.

9. Remember also that you can use the measurement to guess the range on other guns more accurately. If that doesn't help, remember that it's free.

10. You have to be a little more careful about using Tankbustaz, yes, but would any self-respecting Ork care about things like maximum range when "OY LADZ DERE'S A BIG ZOGGING 'UMIE WAGGON OVER DAT WAY!"?

I would like for Ork Boyz units to be able to get burnas as a support weapon option. Not with the burna boyz special rules, but just because setting the enemy on fire is awesome!

By the way, you can include Mad Dok Grotsnik to give your Meganobs cybork bodies, and include him in the unit so they also have feel no pain. Put them in a battlewagon close to a KFF big mek and they're nearly guaranteed to close with the enemy.

I also don't like the current looted wagon rules. They should simply allow a certain selection of imperial vehicles to be looted, with the "Don't press dat" rule, BS 2 and maybe a +1 to damage rolls to represent pre-existing battle damage.

mad dok is really good foe meganobs i agree, but its the cost. 3 meganobs plus the dok plus a BW wihotut extras is nearly 400 points. works in bigger battles though, and the bigger the Meganob squad the more effect youd see.

a burna option with the boyz is a brilliant idea along with big shootas and rokkits. makes total sense. would give real flexibility to a boyz mo - you could mimic a marine squad and have a shoota boyzz mob with rokkit and burna - a tactical ork squad

1. I suspect Strength 3 and Furious Charge represents the fact that they're not quite genetically-modified supermen in mechanized armor that enhances their strength even further, but in a fit of rage (while charging, for instance) they can approach a Space Marine's muscle-power.

this does make sense , and i can see it - furious vharge would then also need changing as an average boy charging on S5 is quite a bit OP, just the stat line still seems the wrng way round to me!
if there is a new codex this part would change of course as the current profile works and is balanced against other codexes.

5. Tankbustaz don't have the Tank Hunters special rule because that wouldn't make sense from a game balance perspective. Lascannon Devastators don't have Tank Hunters, Guard lascannon weapons teams can't get Tank Hunters, why should Ork Tankbustaz? They suffer far more from BS2 than they do from lack of armor penetration capability.

i think fluff wise, these guys literally only kill tanks, and part of the rites of passage is taking down their first tank. even their glory hog rule exemplifies them and thair tank hunting way. (plus their name ofc!) i think that as the rule is written in the rule book, there are very few more apt units for in any codex than a team dedicated only to killing tanks.
i guess tankhammers, and bombsquigs were deemed enough to represent it (love bombsquigs ), still seems odd though that they dont get this rule. perhaps it could be sneaked within the glory hogs rule making it easier to swallow

I'll try and make rules for these then.

Hobowan wrote:1) Orks are savage, hulking brutes. nothing else says it better. they get T4 - perfect. but why do they have WS4 S3 and not WS3 S4? are they really as skilled as a marine, but as weedy as a humie? really? look at the biceps on the models!!!!!!

Because they need to limber up. That many muscles are going to cramp easily. But I see your point.

2) Squigs. I love squigs as much as i love orks. why are there so few squigs in the army? id love a squig unit to be brought back under the car of a runtherder. currently the only playable squig i never get to play as its when zogwort gives one to an enemy. how come they can play with an angry squig and i cant?!
i also think the lobba should be replaced by tankbuster squig launchers

Squig Herd

Type- Beasts (Squigherders are Infantry)

10-30 Squigs, 4pts each, 1 Squigherder for every 10 Squigs, free.

Squigs

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
2 0 3 3 1 3 2 3 6+

Squigherders are the same as Runtherds

Wargear

Ripping Fangs
Squigs have the rending rule in CC

Scaly Skin-6+ armour save

Dumb Animals
Squigs are fearless and have FNP. If there are no Squigherders in the unit, then they must pass a Ld test at the beginning of the turn or gain Rage for the turn.

Angry Beasts
If the Squig Herd is beaten in CC, take a Ld test. If it is failed, then at the beginng of their next assault p-hase, they count as being locked in combat with remaining Herders.


Squig Herders have all the same stuff as Runtherders.

1 Herders may purchase up to 5 Grot Snacks at +5pts each. Thses add this number of Gretchin to the unit. If the Squig herd fails a test from "Angry Beasts", then you may immediately kill a grot to pass. If there are no Squigherders then all gretchin are immediately killed, as the Herd eats them.

3) looted wagon. i know these are constantly being discussed, and i know they are inferior versions of real things. so without talking about all the other things wrong with them...how is a looted landraider the same as a looted Rhino? even just a front armour of 12 would have made more sense as it would then be the average. F12-S11-R10 is a pretty reasonable average considering the fluff and the spread of lootable vehicles out there have if you ask me
i dunno, whatever its failings it just reeks of there being no thought at all having gone into it.
i would LOVE it if there was a rule that if a mek is in a looted tank, the dont touch dat rule doesnt apply. i mean, he looted the thing - im sure he knows what buttons to press!

The ork mek rips out any non-ork technology, and replaces it with orkl stuff. So the assault ramp on a land Raider is torn uop and replaced with corragated iron, and rhinoes gain iron plates and a big gun on top.

4) Meks, burnas and lootas. why is there an option to swap 3 lootas or burnas for meks? is it just me or is that a really, really wierd unit upgrade option? especially as they cant even keep the weapons that the rest of the unit use. ill admit, if i play a boomwagon i sometimes swap a loota for a mek to sit next to it in case the boomgun weapon is destroyed, but why would i want 3? surely the option should have been to upgrade one model to a mek, and that mek could bring a bosspole? then they would be invaluable.
whats worse though, is the fact the models box only allows you to make 4 of the unit of your choice, and forces you to make these meks or a different boy entirely.

I got nothing.

5) tankbustas. again quite famous, but why oh why do they not have the tank hunter special rule?! (bomb squigs are way cool though)

Fine, they have Tank Hunters, but keep Glory Hogs.

6) Meganobs. i dont like them much, but thats not to say they are rubbish because theyre not. but i think they should have come with cybork as standard and priced at 45 as a result. there are far too many things out there which ignore armour, and as they are so slow i find them soooo labour intensive for no huge output.

Meganobs may purchase Cyborg Bodies for +15pts, in which case they lose SNP and Gain FNP. Thqat much armour and metal is going to feth up any shot that doesn't puch clean through.

7) Ramshackle on trukks. This rule is pretty good, but i think that the "kareen" result should be expanded to happen on a roll of 2-5. as it is, an interesting rule has for all intents and purposes a 2/3's chance of a normal destroyed type result and only a 1/3 chance of the event that actually makes the trukk and the rule interesting! seems half baked to me.

8) buggies & wartrakks. the models are old!!!!!!

9) gitfindas. what a waste! ive had 1 occurance in my last 5 fights where ive misjudged a 24" shot. surely they could have come up with something better?

10) Glory hogs. principles fine. execution is...erm...fitting? i guess? simplest fix is to take the unlimited trange off of the rule and make it so the rule only applies when within 24" of a vehicle - ie the vehicles in range and they then simply cant help themselves and cant resist the temptation of shooting the tank and ignoring those angry bloodclaws running at their faces

Trukks are fine. Fix Buggy models. I can't do that. Gitfindas bye-bye. Exactly. Tankbustas are part emo. They love getting Blood Talons in their faces.

Deadshot wrote:

I'll try and make rules for these then.

Hobowan wrote:1) Orks are savage, hulking brutes. nothing else says it better. they get T4 - perfect. but why do they have WS4 S3 and not WS3 S4? are they really as skilled as a marine, but as weedy as a humie? really? look at the biceps on the models!!!!!!

Because they need to limber up. That many muscles are going to cramp easily. But I see your point.

too true. i cant imagine orks being bothered by warm up and warm down excercises

2) Squigs. I love squigs as much as i love orks. why are there so few squigs in the army? id love a squig unit to be brought back under the car of a runtherder. currently the only playable squig i never get to play as its when zogwort gives one to an enemy. how come they can play with an angry squig and i cant?!
i also think the lobba should be replaced by tankbuster squig launchers


Squig Herd

Type- Beasts (Squigherders are Infantry)

10-30 Squigs, 4pts each, 1 Squigherder for every 10 Squigs, free.

Squigs

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
2 0 3 3 1 3 3 3 6+

Squigherders are the same as Runtherds

Wargear

Ripping Fangs
Squigs have the rending rule in CC

Scaly Skin-6+ armour save

Dumb Animals
Squigs are fearless and have FNP. If there are no Squigherders in the unit, then they must pass a Ld test at the beginning of the turn or gain Rage for the turn.

Angry Beasts
If the Squig Herd is beaten in CC, take a Ld test. If it is failed, then at the beginng of their next assault p-hase, they count as being locked in combat with remaining Herders.


Squig Herders have all the same stuff as Runtherders.

1 Herders may purchase up to 5 Grot Snacks at +5pts each. Thses add this number of Gretchin to the unit. If the Squig herd fails a test from "Angry Beasts", then you may immediately kill a grot to pas. If there are no Squigherders then all gretchin are immediately kill;ed, as the Herd eats them.

looks good! really represents their shambolic aggressive mass! 3 attacks may be a bit much at 4 points, so down to 1 attack would be fair

grot snacks are awesome!

Hobowan wrote:I love orks. i really love orks. and i think the current codex is brilliant. a little inflexible in terms of what can be a competetive list, but isnt that the same with every army? anyways, there are some things that do grate me though... and im the only ork player i know irl, so i thought id post to see if im alone in my ramblings, right on the money, having a brain fart or just plain crazy!

so here goes...



1) Orks are savage, hulking brutes. nothing else says it better. they get T4 - perfect. but why do they have WS4 S3 and not WS3 S4? are they really as skilled as a marine, but as weedy as a humie? really? look at the biceps on the models!!!!!!

Actually the Imperial Guard Primer gives a reason for that. It's because ork muscles aren't quite as dense as human muscles, so despite the greater bulk and size of their biceps they aren't much stronger than, say, a guardsman.
However, on the charge they get an adrenaline boost, which greatly increases their strength. Well, it's either that or the WAAAGH!.

I do agree though that tankbusters are pretty bad at tankbusting. Maybe not the tankhunters USR, but rerolls to hit against vehicles would be nice.
I also find it strange that Tankhammers allow armor saves.

I think GW's marketing strategy has something to do with only being able to build 4 lootas/burnas in a box of 5. That means you have to buy more to compensate...or you could just do a bit of converting.

The Imperial Guards Uplifting Primer also says that orks run away if you yell at them. It's propaganda written to boost Guardsman morale, I wouldn't take anything about the xeno races in that book as fact or canon.

S3 represents everything from average human to just weaker than a space marine. in reality a guardsman may be at the bottom edge of the S3 spectrum, but an Ork would be at the top of the spectrum.

Blackhoof wrote:S3 represents everything from average human to just weaker than a space marine. in reality a guardsman may be at the bottom edge of the S3 spectrum, but an Ork would be at the top of the spectrum.

Well put.

10. Yes if tankbustas had tankhunter, then it would be a good upside to the Glory Hog! rule. However I've found that against the armies that matter (mech IG, razorspam) the vehicles don't want to move and usually castle up, so the glory hog does not get in the way much.

8. I hate both the buggy models and the rules in-game.

6. I think megarmor should be an upgrade to nob units, and nob bikers a separate fast attack unit.

oh and..

11. Why no choppa rule? If they didn't like the old one (as mentioned in the WD when the Ork codex came out) then how about something completely different. Personally, I would LOVE the WHFB choppa rule (+1S in first round of combat). Would make taking sluggaboys much, much more competitive with shoota boys by getting S5 on the charge.